SHP LT1 Blocks...

[Dart Vader]

We've decided to produce these blocks, after much consideration and deliberation.

Pricing for the new block will be similar to the pricing offered on our Chevy and Ford series SHP blocks.

We'll be releasing more details on pricing and specifications as development progresses.

Thanks to all our loyal customers for the input and interest concerning this block!

[Paulster2]

Nothing but goodness in this post! Thanks Dart for listening!

[roadtrip120]

Thanks Dart

[1989TransAm]

My crystal ball sees a lot more serious LT1 builds in the future. The SHP block will make a good foundation for a serious built.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Thats great news on those blocks as we have seen quite a few of them over the years and we have found quite a few of them that did not sonic test very good and did not consider them a good foundation for a high horse power appication.

Plus alot of those blocks we had to install splayed caps on.

Another great move by Dart

Carl

[Puck]

Thanks for listening guys! This will surely be a big boost the the LTX community.

[AdioSS]

woohoo!

now is anybody interested in a set of new old stock 18* pistons for a 4.028" bore?

[Awesome Bill]

So what will the max bore be, one small one big? and the max stroke? Are there going to be any deck height options, might as well ask all questions now.

[jerry clayton]

As per my discussions with them---

Just like their gen 1 sbc shp---2 part numbers, one a 4in and one a 4.125---both .010 under (3.990 and 4.115) for final hone to fit pistons-- As per the other SHP stuff---no options on deck height or cam location--stroke-same deal as any small block ---depends on crank rod size, rod and/or bolt, cam base circle---a 4 inch stroke can be fitted but you will need to do some clearance checking adjustment.
Bore size---.230 minumun wall thickness at 4.165--we are plaNNING AND STOCKINg cranks at 3.875 and pistons at the 4.125 size but have plans to use up to 4.200 bore---we want to do 427 inch motor--kind of a magic sounding number!!!!

For anyone attending the Corvette Bloomington Gold show at Pheasant Run in St. Charles next month, we will have the Gen 1 SHP block on display .

Jerry

[jakesz28]

I would still like to see a taller deck. But will have to wait and see if this motor finishes the year. It's either this or a tall deck sbc block.

[Awesome Bill]

I am used to sticking big cranks in small blocks? I use 4.5" cranks in fords and sbc as a regular. We have already done the 4.5 crank in these with a 4.185" bore. Well the new block should be a very nice addition to Darts already busy line. thanks

[AdioSS]

I am used to sticking big cranks in small blocks? I use 4.5" cranks in fords and sbc as a regular. We have already done the 4.5 crank in these with a 4.185" bore. Well the new block should be a very nice addition to Darts already busy line. thanks

4.5" stroke in a standard cam location SBC? :eek:

But didn't you type this on 03-30-2009, 05:05 AM :confused:
putting anything larger than 4" without raise the camshaft hurts power even in the Little M. The camshaft once under .850" base circle becomes junk in my opinion. A 4.000" crank goes in very well with little machining only on the side rails and only with a steel rod. Forget an aluminum piece.

[lun40119]

I am almost positive he isn't talking about a standard cam block fella........go to his website and check out the 499inch small block. I think there are some vids too.

[AdioSS]

but isn't thread specifically about the LT1 SHP block which will only be available with the standard cam location? :confused:

[lun40119]

I suppose you are right there, maybe he will answer for himself. I still really like the 3.750 stroke stuff for a small block. With the big stuff, yes the power is there, but you have to remember 23° heads were never designed for those cubic inches. Look at BBC heads. I mean even the smaller heads make the big SBC heads look silly by comparison. I just finished mine and am really pretty happy with it, but even so, my cylinder heads are the weak point.

[AdioSS]

I agree with that. Most 23° heads weren't designed for that many cubic inches. That's why I wasn't planning on using 23° heads ;)

[Rob94hawk]

I need more specs on this block!

I want to use SB2.2 heads!

[Dart Vader]

Patience grasshopper, we are getting close to the point where I will be able to release some specs, but I can't just yet.

[JPack]

Well now that sounds like more good news. :D There are a lot of people sitting, waiting, thinking evil thoughts of what is about to be unleashed into the hands, and executed with ones right foot! :eek:

[joelster]

I can't wait!

How much does it cost to become a Dart dealer? Usually there is a minimum buy in. The shop near me is interested in purchasing a block as well.

[Bacon104]

The fact that you guys are not getting complacent and willing to adapt to improving upon new technology says alot. "Like continuing customer:D"

[Bacon104]

My nose feels like its gotta lil brown stuff on it now:o
But is it worth some free parts?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Rob94hawk]

Patience grasshopper, we are getting close to the point where I will be able to release some specs, but I can't just yet.

Can you release some specs now? :D

[swomp rat]

Just wondered how the production of the SHP LTX block is coming and if there is anymore information available on them?

[joelster]

Just wondered how the production of the SHP LTX block is coming and if there is anymore information available on them?

x2

Anxiously awaiting info.

[Rob94hawk]

Hmm, I'm gonna have to call BS on this whole project. It's been over 3 months now.

[lun40119]

Your right!!!!! I bet they did it to raise the hits on their forum;)

[CLAYTONRACING]

Your right!!!!! I bet they did it to raise the hits on their forum;)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Believe me they are working on it.

[lun40119]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Believe me they are working on it.

Some of these LT/LS guys just friggen crack me up sometimes with there Heads, Cam Intake street car race car how many bugs on the windshield how much does it weigh crap......

That guy better be one of the first guys with a block in his garage, and be documenting it on THIS forum with a detailed build thread.....otherwise I CALL BS!!!!!!

Ok rant over...........

[Dart Vader]

Currently we are evaluating retooling costs for the project. We have no dates for anything at this time.

Sorry! I don't really have any exciting updates on this right now.

[swomp rat]

Is this project still in the works or no? I heard a rumor that they might call off the project due to retooling costs! Just wondered cause I am really looking forward to getting ahold of one of these as soon as they come out. Simply due to the fact there are no really good after market blocks for these cars.

[Dart Vader]

Well, there's good news and bad news.

The bad news is that the project has been delayed. I can't really say at this point exactly what the projected release date will be.

The good news is that it was delayed so that we could make some additional improvements to the block design. After some review we decided that the value we could add to the block with a little more design time would be worth a late arrival.

I'll keep this thread updated with new developments.

[jerry clayton]

thats great news--I know that the quick and simple idea I projected at our first contact was necessary to get the door open---and the following storm of comments about one piece two piece seal, taller deck heights, etc was probably going to tip the scales one way or another, but I have remained confident that if and when this went forward that it would definitely generate a piece that would be well accepted by these steadfast LT guys(and gals) with there special cars.

Thanks for the update

[joelster]

I just want the cubes.

You can make it one piece or two piece, don't matter to me, i'll adapt. I'm sure I can find a pan that will fit.

You can make it a tall deck, raise the cam, whatever, no biggie. We can adapt to that stuff.

Just get 'er done!

[Rob94hawk]

I just want the cubes.

You can make it one piece or two piece, don't matter to me, i'll adapt. I'm sure I can find a pan that will fit.

You can make it a tall deck, raise the cam, whatever, no biggie. We can adapt to that stuff.

Just get 'er done!

If you raise the cam you wont be able to use the optispark. Unless Dart creates a longer optispark compatible timing cover. You raise the deck you are then looking at an aftermarket intake.

[CLAYTONRACING]

you can run spacer plates too, this would give you you more room to blend from the manifold to the head port also. But the biggest head scratcher would be the cover-opti deal. We shall see. Just know that Dart always trys to do the best they can and not cut corners, they are racers, and if they can make the product better then they will.

[1989TransAm]

A 427 sure has a nice ring to it. I think they already have emblems and decals for those that want to advertise their motor. :)

[rickreeves1]

I'd_much_rather_wait_and_have_it_done_right.

[lun40119]

I just want the cubes.

You can make it one piece or two piece, don't matter to me, i'll adapt. I'm sure I can find a pan that will fit.

You can make it a tall deck, raise the cam, whatever, no biggie. We can adapt to that stuff.

Just get 'er done!

Joel, you crack me up...........raised cam, tall deck, custom pistons, 15000 bucks and one ulcer later you will have your cop car killer.

Make sure you keep us well informed with your build thread on this board..........

EDIT......wait, maybe 3 ulcers!!!!!

[joelster]

Joel, you crack me up...........raised cam, tall deck, custom pistons, 15000 bucks and one ulcer later you will have your cop car killer.

Make sure you keep us well informed with your build thread on this board..........

EDIT......wait, maybe 3 ulcers!!!!!

$15,000?????????

Um..no. I have the intake, just need the spacers. Plan on going carb, E85, distributor. Pistons should be no more than $800-$1000.

I said I don't care how it is configured, I will adapt, sorry you can't accept that. I'll update you on the build, and it won't be anywhere near $15,000, not even at the $10,000 mark.

block-$2000
machining-$500ish (not sure how much it needs, besides a hone)
crank-$800
rods-$600
pistons/rings-$1000
carb-$700
distributor-$300
spacers for intake-$100ish (no clue, but my friend could EASILY make them)
heads-$1864 (already have them)
cam-$300
lifters-$500
pushrods- $200
rockers-$300
wires-$60
timing chain-$100
oil pump-$50
gaskets-$100
balancer-$400

total=$9874 and I was being generous on a lot of those prices. A lot of that stuff I have access to right now for free, but I figured I would include new stuff just to see what it would total up to. I could probably get a recip assembly that would save 200-300, I could get a carb cheaper, a distributor cheaper, etc... I am sure I could search and price shop and knock a grand off easy. That would offset any hidden costs that always pop up.

On a side note, don't worry about what I plan to do, I could care less what you do. :)

[lun40119]

Joel,

Really I am not trying to start a pissing match with you...........it was a friendly jab. You seem to have it all figured out.........just a couple questions though. What rockers do you plan to run for 300bucks, and also just to add, The SHP block is a great block, but there are certain things that I do to blocks even if they are done. You will spend more than 500 bucks to finish the block. I can tell you haven't done too many engines and that isn't your fault, and it doesn't make you any less of a gear head. Dart supplies the cam bearings........who is going to put them in???? 30bucks. You forgot rod and main bearings. Not sure if you are one of the guys that uses coated rods and mains, I do, and they aren't cheap. Figure 100 bucks a set. so theres another 200. Now in any performance app it is fitting to at least dust out the main line. There is another 175 bucks. Tq plate hone 150 bucks, Now if you are going to have this thing zero decked that will cost you some 150 bucks. The machine shop is going to charge to put the pistons on the rods, bout 30 bucks. Now in my case probably not yours, they had to narrow the pin ends of the rods, 125 bucks, then there are mock assembly charges to put it together and take it apart 50 times while decking, and measuring and clearancing. Figure another 150 bucks. Oops don't forget to balance your rotator, yes, even if whomever says its balanced 250 bucks, ahh yes, and now that you have all this money into parts and machining.............please dont' assemble it the first time by yourself.........have them do it and have them degree the cam too while they are at it. 300 bucks. Now you are ready, possibly, to bold your heads and tin on and giver hell. Now I know you are going to run in on a dyno, and do it properly right. Figure a grand for that. So long and short of it is.....figure for the worst...........it will probably be more than that anyway.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, the screen kit for the open lifter valley when your scorpians, or Pro mags break and fall down into the lifter valley. Don't forget your girdle.

By the way lay off the coffee, it has made you a bitter little gearhead.......

[joelster]

Joel,

Really I am not trying to start a pissing match with you...........it was a friendly jab. You seem to have it all figured out.........just a couple questions though. What rockers do you plan to run for 300bucks, and also just to add, The SHP block is a great block, but there are certain things that I do to blocks even if they are done. You will spend more than 500 bucks to finish the block. I can tell you haven't done too many engines and that isn't your fault, and it doesn't make you any less of a gear head. Dart supplies the cam bearings........who is going to put them in???? 30bucks. You forgot rod and main bearings. Not sure if you are one of the guys that uses coated rods and mains, I do, and they aren't cheap. Figure 100 bucks a set. so theres another 200. Now in any performance app it is fitting to at least dust out the main line. There is another 175 bucks. Tq plate hone 150 bucks, Now if you are going to have this thing zero decked that will cost you some 150 bucks. The machine shop is going to charge to put the pistons on the rods, bout 30 bucks. Now in my case probably not yours, they had to narrow the pin ends of the rods, 125 bucks, then there are mock assembly charges to put it together and take it apart 50 times while decking, and measuring and clearancing. Figure another 150 bucks. Oops don't forget to balance your rotator, yes, even if whomever says its balanced 250 bucks, ahh yes, and now that you have all this money into parts and machining.............please dont' assemble it the first time by yourself.........have them do it and have them degree the cam too while they are at it. 300 bucks. Now you are ready, possibly, to bold your heads and tin on and giver hell. Now I know you are going to run in on a dyno, and do it properly right. Figure a grand for that. So long and short of it is.....figure for the worst...........it will probably be more than that anyway.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, the screen kit for the open lifter valley when your scorpians, or Pro mags break and fall down into the lifter valley. Don't forget your girdle.

By the way lay off the coffee, it has made you a bitter little gearhead.......

I appreciate your input, I really do. I have never had a cup of coffee in my life though, i've tasted it once or twice and couldn't figure out what the big deal was.

I know there will be hidden costs involved, but I don't think it will come to $5000. I was friendly on a lot of the prices I mentioned, I know I can save bucks here and there. Besides....they aren't going to make it a tall deck block and you know it. They would eliminate 95% of the potential market if they did that. I have Comp Pro Mags now. You think they will blow apart? Honestly, my friend Dan runs them on his mid-9 second IROC, and has had zero issues. You can see his car from the PINKs arm drop live event at Toronto Motorsports park. He runs the same heads I have as well, except his are pre-eliminators. He runs the AFR girdles ($110 a set) and checks the lash evry few weeks.

All of the machining costs that you just listed don't even come to $1000 (it was $810), so I was $310 off from that. My friend Paul will install the bearings and assemble the motor. He has done a few in his day (500+). He likes to get his rotator stuff from Ohio Crank, they come balanced.

The motor I plan to build isn't going to be some 900hp temperamental beast. I'll settle for a solid 650 out of 440ish cubes. I don't think that will be so radical that it will be destroying parts left and right. I could get that number out of a nasty 383.

[lun40119]

Much better post fella. I wouldn't run pro mags on a radical solid roller, fact I wouldn't run a stud mounted rocker on one. If you look at the sportsman stuff from T&D or Jesel it is silly to even consider it. If you get a chance take a look at a good shaft setup. Once you set one up you will never go back. I remember defending the same things that you are defending until I tried it. I know I can come off like a dink online alot of the times but really I am not like that. I want that block to get produced.....like I mentioned before I have a couple of LT1 buddies one of which could really have a blast with it. Funny thing about where you are now is that I remember thinking and arguing the same thing(but with my wife) I told her I could have it done and in the car for 7000. Boy was I wrong. It started out as a new rotator, turned into a completely new engine. Lots of portwork, and some top notch parts. It is funny how it all snowballs once you get it going. Eitherway fella, it is good to see you guys around, feel free to contribute. Be patient with the guys at Dart. Remember when this thread started it was just an idea. If they say something you can pretty much go to the bank with it. Take care.......

[Rob94hawk]

Blah-blah-blah. You guys can talk specs till your colon falls out. If there is no block, there is no project. And so far I don't see no stinkin LTx block.

[camrat68]

Blah-blah-blah. You guys can talk specs till your colon falls out. If there is no block, there is no project. And so far I don't see no stinkin LTx block.

True, SO FAR. You can wait to figure your specs out when you actually see the block for sale and then you won't see anything but tail lights NEW GUY. :rolleyes:

As for me, I'm looking forward to having an SHP LT1 in the cop car.;)

[swomp rat]

I think most of us are just excited at the thought of having a block that we can build a big cube motor with. And most of us are just awaiting a final say/word on some specs... :D

[jakesz28]

Well, there's good news and bad news.

The bad news is that the project has been delayed. I can't really say at this point exactly what the projected release date will be.

The good news is that it was delayed so that we could make some additional improvements to the block design. After some review we decided that the value we could add to the block with a little more design time would be worth a late arrival.

I'll keep this thread updated with new developments.


Do you hoestly think this may happen at this time? If so is there a rough number of months from when you guys get the go ahead to when you start selling them?


Thanks

[Dart Vader]

We have to create a new set of tooling for this block, and before we do that we have to get the design perfected.

We are also working on several other projects (which will be made known in due time). It's likely going to be a little while before this block is ready to go. I can't really give a rough number of months, as it's still in development and anyone who has worked in or observed the R&D process will know that development schedules are not concrete things (If you want things to come out right anyway).

When it is ready to go, it will be a really excellent block though.

[swomp rat]

I will gladly wait as long as it takes for you to come out with a buildable LTX block that is done right.

[joelster]

I will gladly wait as long as it takes for you to come out with a buildable LTX block that is done right.

I will wait for a while but not real long. My stock shortblock is on borrowed time right now. If it grenades I will build something this winter whether it be a Dart block or a stocker-383. If my stock shortblock makes it to the winter then I can wait longer. I hate having down time with my car when the weather is nice out.

[sonofgto]

i can't wait for the block to be done i just built a 355 lt1 and i would of love to have this block for my build. also i am putting a carb on it i have a edlebrock super victor intake but i need to have the bolt holes moved to go on the lt1 heads. it would be great to have a single plane carb race intake for a lt1

[Rob94hawk]

Dart should make this block in aluminum IF it ever becomes a reality.

[roadtrip120]

retooling cost???



I heard that its goin to be a two piece rear main seal, for some reason, and that they "dart" was trying to capture the sbc market with this block... Not sure why a sbc would want to convert to a LT1, i thought this block was for current LT1 owners, thus making it compatible for the water pump, opti, and rear main seal...



I dont care about price i just want a big cube LTX block, build it guys.....

[Dart Vader]

retooling cost???

I heard that its going to be a two piece rear main seal, for some reason, and that they "dart" was trying to capture the sbc market with this block... Not sure why a sbc would want to convert to a LT1, i thought this block was for current LT1 owners, thus making it compatible for the water pump, opti, and rear main seal...

I dont care about price i just want a big cube LTX block, build it guys.....
This block has nothing to do with the typical SBC market... it's an LT1 block.

And you may not care about price, but a lot of people do. We want to include the features that are most important to LT engine builders, we want it to be a really good block, we also want it to be affordable. The whole point of the SHP line is affordability.

[ckp]

This block has nothing to do with the typical SBC market... it's an LT1 block.

And you may not care about price, but a lot of people do. We want to include the features that are most important to LT engine builders, we want it to be a really good block, we also want it to be affordable. The whole point of the SHP line is affordability.

Thank you for the update. I am planning on building a 396 for my Corvette over the winter with my block. I would much rather wait for yours for the bigger bore amongst other things. Do you thnk I should wait or start collecting parts for my engine build? Do you have any idea when you think it might ship? I hate to build my engine and your block come out when I'm done. I will not hold you to it. I just need an affirmation that the block will indeed be produced and possibly some kind of ballpark timeframe, be it this year or next year or something. Some more information would be very helpful and save me from wasting funds. I want a 427 so bad I can taste it.

TIA

[Dart Vader]

Thank you for the update. I am planning on building a 396 for my Corvette over the winter with my block. I would much rather wait for yours for the bigger bore amongst other things. Do you thnk I should wait or start collecting parts for my engine build? Do you have any idea when you think it might ship? I hate to build my engine and your block come out when I'm done. I will not hold you to it. I just need an affirmation that the block will indeed be produced and possibly some kind of ballpark timeframe, be it this year or next year or something. Some more information would be very helpful and save me from wasting funds. I want a 427 so bad I can taste it.

TIA
Wish I could say for sure when this will be ready for release, but too much is still up in the air right now to pin down approximate release dates.
Late next year is probably the earliest I would expect to see this block released.

[roadtrip120]

Wish I could say for sure when this will be ready for release, but too much is still up in the air right now to pin down approximate release dates.
Late next year is probably the earliest I would expect to see this block released.


So end of the year 2010???????





Wow, guess you guys dont get in a hurry. It took Mcleod a little under a year to R&D , build and ship those LT1 specific scatter shields.


I dont care if it takes that long, if we have to wait we have to wait. MY biggest deal is when you say 6-8 weeks and now you say 1.5 years, thats a mood killer.


Well post up when its ready to ship and i'll give you my CC.

[Dart Vader]

So end of the year 2010???????

Wow, guess you guys dont get in a hurry. It took Mcleod a little under a year to R&D , build and ship those LT1 specific scatter shields.


I dont care if it takes that long, if we have to wait we have to wait. MY biggest deal is when you say 6-8 weeks and now you say 1.5 years, thats a mood killer.

Well post up when its ready to ship and i'll give you my CC.
Never said 6-8 weeks. Never gave any definitive time frame.

We currently have other R&D projects ahead of this one, so it isn't going to be a fast development time.

When it's done it will be done right.

[want-a-be]

Wow, guess you guys dont get in a hurry. It took Mcleod a little under a year to R&D , build and ship those LT1 specific scatter shields..

Hmmm...I have to ask. :confused: How many water and oil passages did that scatter sheild have in it that McLeod took "just under a year" to develope? :eek: How much re-engineering does it take do a scatter sheild, and how does it compare to the complexities of engineering a block? :rolleyes:

Don :cool:

[jakesz28]

Yep that is what I was afraid of. Well I might keep beating on this stock block or I will be changing platforms.

[4SFEDZ]

what kind of power is this block goin to be able to handle? substantially more than a stock block?

[Dart Vader]

what kind of power is this block goin to be able to handle? substantially more than a stock block?
Yes, far more than a stock block.

[4SFEDZ]

dang then hurry up! lol!

[joelster]

To say i'm a little displeased with the time frame on this is a big understatement. That one guy who was in contact with you (Clayton Racing I think) was practically telling us it would be ready in 6 weeks, way back in March or whatever month it was. He dropped some hints way back in dec or Jan. I went out and bought a sweet set of heads just for this reason, and now they are going to accumulate MORE dust, by sitting for another full year.

I seriously doubt I will wait any longer, time for a change of plans. You shouldn't even say that "SHP LT1 Blocks on the Way", because they aren't "on the way", they are way off in the distance. Go ahead and change the thread title so you won't mislead any more people.

[Dart Vader]

To say i'm a little displeased with the time frame on this is a big understatement. That one guy who was in contact with you (Clayton Racing I think) was practically telling us it would be ready in 6 weeks, way back in March or whatever month it was. He dropped some hints way back in dec or Jan. I went out and bought a sweet set of heads just for this reason, and now they are going to accumulate MORE dust, by sitting for another full year.

I seriously doubt I will wait any longer, time for a change of plans. You shouldn't even say that "SHP LT1 Blocks on the Way", because they aren't "on the way", they are way off in the distance. Go ahead and change the thread title so you won't mislead any more people.
So sorry to have displeased you your highness.

Some people actually want to know what we are working on, even if it's well off in the future. We never gave release dates or even time frames because we know how R&D works.

Clayton racing got some early data, which would have been accurate save for the fact that we later decided to retool the whole project. He reported what he heard, it just changed later. We knew it might change, which is why we didn't report it.

I repeatedly told everyone in the thread that dates were not available and that time frames could not be established. If you chose to make assumptions even after that, it's the fault of only one person.

These blocks are still on the way, and they will be great blocks when we release them. They're just going to require some patience.

[Paulster2]

Well, I for one am glad they are still on the way. I'm still wanting one, though budget is still a concern. Keep up with the news. "I" at least appreciate it :D

[joelster]

So sorry to have displeased you your highness.
That's just lame right there. I have never said a bad word about Dart or anyone that works for them. I don't think I am anyone special at all, that "highness" comment shows some lack of character on your part. I am a potential customer of yours, try to show me a little respect. I am sure that I have brought a decent amount of traffic to your site and a little bit of attention to your project here.

Some people actually want to know what we are working on, even if it's well off in the future. We never gave release dates or even time frames because we know how R&D works.

Clayton racing got some early data, which would have been accurate save for the fact that we later decided to retool the whole project. He reported what he heard, it just changed later. We knew it might change, which is why we didn't report it.

I repeatedly told everyone in the thread that dates were not available and that time frames could not be established. If you chose to make assumptions even after that, it's the fault of only one person.

These blocks are still on the way, and they will be great blocks when we release them. They're just going to require some patience.

I am sure they will be great, I never doubted that. Go burn the midnight oil.

[lun40119]

Cmon now Joelster, settle down. I can't speak for him, but I would assume there was humor in his statement. Did you stop taking your meds again :)

Someday, maybe you will get a chance to meet some of the people at Dart, at a show, or a race somewhere and your opinion will change. These guys are some of the friendliest genuine car/motor enthusiasts you will ever meet. Whether it be my lil SHP build, or a Twin Turbo Billet piece. I felt like I was treated the same.

Show a little class, and give respect to a company that is striving to make this piece affordable, and strong enough to handle what "some" of the LTX crowd will be throwing at it.

[ckp]

Wish I could say for sure when this will be ready for release, but too much is still up in the air right now to pin down approximate release dates.
Late next year is probably the earliest I would expect to see this block
released.

Thanks for the latest update. I will start my end of season build and patiently wait on my next project went your LT block materializes.

[Awesome Bill]

Didn't your momma tell you about any name calling? We get busted for that stuff. Either way, someone may of jumped the gun a little and your most likely anxiously waiting so that makes it worst, but, wait or break it with power. I would be more than glad to wait and be patient and get a piece that you can actually make killer power with and not split a cylinder wall or knock a main out. I am sure our administrator did not mean anything by that. These are as professional as it gets.

[jakesz28]

Knock a main out now come on. We would have to be making some power to do that to a production block with splayed caps.













I hate to be asking again but is it safe to say that I should fix what I have and check back after I tear it up again next year. :rolleyes:



Thanks for working on getting it done and not forgetting us though.

[lun40119]

I have seen you around on a couple of other forums, that thing looks like it really hauls the mail.

Eitherway, care to share some information bout your ride. Specifically the engine. Im always interested......

[jakesz28]

I have seen you around on a couple of other forums, that thing looks like it really hauls the mail.

Eitherway, care to share some information bout your ride. Specifically the engine. Im always interested......


It's just a 12-1 compression LT1.

[lun40119]

Seems to be alot of that there......;) Nice car. Is it a stock short block with a hydraulic roller? :D

[jakesz28]

Just a 383, with an old set of sbc heads, and a small solid roller.

[lun40119]

I like that.............would probably be faster if it was a stock short block, but you just keep plugging away, you will get there.........;)

[Dart Vader]

Knock a main out now come on. We would have to be making some power to do that to a production block with splayed caps.


I hate to be asking again but is it safe to say that I should fix what I have and check back after I tear it up again next year. :rolleyes:

Thanks for working on getting it done and not forgetting us though.

To be completely honest, yeah, I would fix it and check back later. I have no clue whatsoever on time frame for this.

[kgkern01]

To be completely honest, yeah, I would fix it and check back later. I have no clue whatsoever on time frame for this.

That's what I am doing, I am just going to put in a used engine, refresh it (bearings, rings, etc.) and a mild cam just to get my car back on the road so its not just sitting there, and maybe start collecting some of the needed parts here and there, so that when it is released, I will be ready to build it.

Keep up the updates!

[Dart Vader]

Well, I have received some very, very unfortunate news today.
This project has been officially canceled.

It seems that after speaking to many of our engine builders, warehouses, racer clients and others that our initial assessment was somewhat over-inflated, our secondary assessment has not been nearly as positive as the first, sadly.

I and everyone else here at Dart realize that this is a big let down for a lot of the people who showed so much interest in the project. I don't make any excuses for it, we messed up this one, and we're sorry.

I, personally am disappointed that we decided not to do this, as I was really looking forward to going ahead with it, but I also understand why, in the end, it was decided not to do so.

I suspect that I'll get beat up a bit for this announcement, it's not one that I enjoy making... I certainly don't hold it against anyone who is upset about this.

Sorry again to everyone who showed such support for the project.

[lun40119]

I highly doubt any of the adults that attend this forum will be throwing rocks........just look out for the kiddies. Ill help throw back though :D

Thanks for being honest. I know Jim will be alittle disappointed, but I am sure he will still move forward with his build.

[pizzandoughnuts]

Sorry to here the news, I know that it sure did create a lot of hope and optimisom for people. There may have been jobs riding on this project, from all the things that I have read Dart is a very innovative company, and I'm sure they will continue to create great performance products that power our need for speed!

[fuel]

wow, very disappointed.......

[joelster]

wow, very disappointed.......

x2

:(

[want-a-be]

I highly doubt any of the adults that attend this forum will be throwing rocks........just look out for the kiddies. Ill help throw back though

Thanks for being honest. I know Jim will be alittle disappointed, but I am sure he will still move forward with his build.

Way to go Jake!..... Had the stones in my hands taking aim,...and you had to go and guilt me into not throwing any....Grrrrrrr:mad:....lol

Can't make a market for whats not there I guess and I doubt I lose my job over this not becomming a reality.

I wouldn't be sorry for making a smart business decision. Can't spend millions to develope something to make thousands,...unless Dart is needing some kind of tax writeoff. :p

Don

:cool:JMO though;)

Don

[lun40119]

If they need a tax write off I am sure I could work something out ;) Nice to see you remember how to type old man..........my junk is still running, here I figured I would have ran over something by now. Bout 2-3 wks from winter teardown. I am sure I will be calling.....;)

[AdioSS]

:eek: :( :(

I was really looking forward to this.

[Awesome Bill]

I won't be crying for sure!

[jakesz28]

This is what I was afraid of. I knew the market wasn't what the sbc or bbc is. Currently the only reason I have stayed with the LT1 platform is with the little money that I make there is about no way to be recognized when compared to all the other cars out there. But since the LT1 crowd was small and I still had the LT1 motor I went for the nitrous record that was on another forum with hopes of making it in a magazine. I'm sure this is where Jake will do some bashing again. :rolleyes: (Check out the Feb issue of GM Hightech magazine. It will be released Nov 7. This is were most of these blocks would have been heading once a year.) Well I think I managed what I could there not a full feature but I'm there. I will run the combo for another year.
But thanks for letting us know and atleast giving it a attempt.

[lun40119]

No bashing here fella, that car hauls the mail. :) And you are doing it without following the masses. I like that you are doing it your own way.

[jerry clayton]

Well after talking to the Dart guys last year after they got the SHP block in production, and getting the ball rolling on the possibility of a SHP LT block that could go over 427 inches with cam in stock location(opti), sending them a lt block and front cover, many discussions, I am a little more than just dissappointed---We currently have 3 LT engines in our shop for rebuild/updates and they will go back together as stock blocks.
However, I am interested in getting the block/ front cover sent back with our next order of blocks and any info you may have as to what is the major stumbling blocks to the project---if the idea of MAJOR improvements over and above the SHP platform was the deciding obsitcals, then I ask WHAT IF it was limited to SHP level?


Jerry

[Dart Vader]

Well after talking to the Dart guys last year after they got the SHP block in production, and getting the ball rolling on the possibility of a SHP LT block that could go over 427 inches with cam in stock location(opti), sending them a lt block and front cover, many discussions, I am a little more than just dissappointed---We currently have 3 LT engines in our shop for rebuild/updates and they will go back together as stock blocks.
However, I am interested in getting the block/ front cover sent back with our next order of blocks and any info you may have as to what is the major stumbling blocks to the project---if the idea of MAJOR improvements over and above the SHP platform was the deciding obsitcals, then I ask WHAT IF it was limited to SHP level?
Jerry

If you've got some stuff still out here just give us a call.

As far as stumbling blocks... it wasn't so much the extent of the improvements, if we're going to make tooling, we will make it right. It was more that the market wasn't there. We had been speaking to the engine builders, warehouses, racers and dealers about it when they called to place orders and the demand just wasn't there, very few of them were interested in it, sadly.

[joelster]

How many pre-orders would you have had to get to make it a reality?

How many would you have to sell every year (projected) to keep the program alive and going forward?

[want-a-be]

As far as stumbling blocks... it wasn't so much the extent of the improvements, if we're going to make tooling, we will make it right. It was more that the market wasn't there. We had been speaking to the engine builders, warehouses, racers and dealers about it when they called to place orders and the demand just wasn't there, very few of them were interested in it, sadly.

Which was the point I was trying to make.

Don

[want-a-be]

I won't be crying for sure!


Ditto....

Don

[joelster]

I'm glad to see that so many of you are happy that this program was cancelled. :rolleyes:

I wonder how much the tooling cost for this:

http://www.dartheads.com/products/special---honda-type-gsr-heads.html

I would guess that the market for that is significantly lower than an LT1.

I wonder how many of these they sell:

http://www.dartheads.com/products/engine-blocks/honda-blocks/

[want-a-be]

I've just never jumped on the LT1 band wagon.

If in your opinion the tooling is so cheap then you ought to persue the project yourself and be the first to market. You'll make a mint sounds like to me. Sweep that cash out from under Dart. Take down that big Goliath manufacturer.

Don

[joelster]

I've just never jumped on the LT1 band wagon.

If in your opinion the tooling is so cheap then you ought to persue the project yourself and be the first to market. You'll make a mint sounds like to me. Sweep that cash out from under Dart. Take down that big Goliath manufacturer.

Don

I never said the tooling was "cheap". I have no idea what it would cost them. I said that they already have an excellent model to build from in the sbc SHP block. Most of the tooling is already done. I found it amusing that they would build a Honda block and cylinder head which is 100% new to them for a dead market (yes the Honda import scene is fading) and charge $2600 for a block when the stock Honda block can handle very high-hp. This Honda block caters to an extremely small percentage of the Honda guys. The guys who are looking at making 600+hp.

[want-a-be]

never was a fan of the tuner stuff ether. Doesn't surprise it's fading.

Don

[jerry clayton]

Don--what are you a fan of????

[want-a-be]

LOL,...I'm a fan of a lot of things. But what I like really doesn't, or shouldn't matter anyways. What matters is what you like, my opinion shouldn't matter to anyone at all, but me that is.

Don

[lun40119]

Your opinions matter to me Don :rolleyes:

[jerry clayton]

The LT engined GM cars were the last engines that looked good when you opened the hood--since then they have used engine covers and other crap to cover up some fantastic engines, but they looked like crap with all the coils, wiring and lines all over---also, wow are they hard to work on

[lun40119]

But, the crappy LSx motors sure do make serious HP. And come to think of it, the LT1 had a big dumb looking cover on it in the B-bodies.

[jerry clayton]

yes they did

In my wifes 33 ford coupe have one of those factory special lt with polished alum valve covers, the intake manifold and none of those accessories hanging all over the front of it and it looks pretty good, however, a hemi or a flathead would look good too

[Rob94hawk]

This thread is full of SUCK!

[lun40119]

Noone is making you read it...........................

[want-a-be]

This thread is full of SUCK!

I feel the same way Rob,...but mostly when you're posting...lol...:eek:

Don

[Paulster2]

Well, it bites no matter how you look at it ... guess I'll be saving the SHP LTx build money for the new Z28 when it comes out in a couple of years. Well, I know why the poo-pooers are happy about this ... they didn't want to have to go up against combos made out of these blocks. "There is no replacement for displacement."

[jakesz28]

The Feb issue of GM high tech just covered a LTx event which shows these motors aren't dead yet. My car even made the cut.

[want-a-be]

Well, it bites no matter how you look at it ... guess I'll be saving the SHP LTx build money for the new Z28 when it comes out in a couple of years. Well, I know why the poo-pooers are happy about this ... they didn't want to have to go up against combos made out of these blocks. "There is no replacement for displacement."

Then go Big Block and be happier.:rolleyes:

Don

[lun40119]

LOL!!!!!! Good call geezer :D

[AdioSS]

...It was more that the market wasn't there. We had been speaking to the engine builders, warehouses, racers and dealers about it when they called to place orders and the demand just wasn't there, very few of them were interested in it, sadly.

I wish you would share more info about this... I'm guessing you would talk to people calling to order the Dart LT1 heads?

There were definitely people waiting for this product. I would buy one this year if it were available.

[joelster]

I wish you would share more info about this... I'm guessing you would talk to people calling to order the Dart LT1 heads?

There were definitely people waiting for this product. I would buy one this year if it were available.


Me too.

Most LT1 guys don't even know about this potential block. 99% of the automotive internet world has never heard of dartheads.com for that matter either. Release the block and 6 months later EVERY LT1 record will be shattered and it would be on the cover of GMHTP, then the word would get out. There are lots of guys with LT1's that have simply moved on due to the fact that there isn't a block like this out there for them.

[lun40119]

Me too.

Most LT1 guys don't even know about this potential block. 99% of the automotive internet world has never heard of dartheads.com for that matter either. Release the block and 6 months later EVERY LT1 record will be shattered and it would be on the cover of GMHTP, then the word would get out. There are lots of guys with LT1's that have simply moved on due to the fact that there isn't a block like this out there for them.


I want some of what you are smoking. Dart heads, no, never heard of them. Richard Maskins, who is that guy. Was he on a wheaties box. Give me a break Joelster.

PS You owe me a keyboard, and a new monitor.

[jerry clayton]

I have to agree that most haven't heard of this site---for years its been Dart Machinery or something like that

I am disappointed that there isn't a bigger following over here, but at least its not overloaded with the bitchers about there opti being bad

[lun40119]

All that joelster has done since he got here is whine and complain. I think he should hit up my newest thread, and hang out for a while. Either that or head over to the bullet, and have them take a couple of swings. :D

[joelster]

I want some of what you are smoking. Dart heads, no, never heard of them. Richard Maskins, who is that guy. Was he on a wheaties box. Give me a break Joelster.

PS You owe me a keyboard, and a new monitor.

I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking about the WEBSITE dartheads.com. I even typed it out like that. You really think this website is popular? Give me a break.

[1997bird]

Why not just sell your lt-1 block and acessories, then you can get a Little M block that has all of the option's you want. The Gen 1 SBC's have tons of aftermarket support and parts availablity. Converting back to EFI is so simple a third grader can order the parts that you need. Electromotive offers a distributorless ignition system to get rid of the problematic opti that everyone seems to keep playing with (funny thing is I never once had a opti problem with either of my Trans Am's). Don't kid yourself the only real thing that seperates the Gen 2 SBC's is their ignition system and intake manifold. But then again technology made advancements and outdated the LT's, why not take advantage of those capabilities.

[jerry clayton]

Well since the SHP LT fell apart we have been working on ways to support our LT friends and have been sourcing cores to build up a package that includes billet splayed 4 bolt main caps, stroker packages on our shelf for 3.875 stroke, forged pistons, rear seal adapters for either one or two piece rear seal cranks, internal balanced, etc

Blocks will be parallel decked to min, line bored/honed, cylinders bored on Kwikway fixture/bar, torque plate honed to piston clearance

We have been picking up a lot of interest word of mouth from the Buick Roadmaster/Impala SS crowd in addition to the more visable Camaro/Firebird/Corvette crowd

Of course the Buick/Impala guys are also converting to aluminum heads and upgrade exhaust systems, stall converters /gear ratio changes

[lun40119]

If got an LT1 in my shop right now with an AI 200cc kit on it. ;) Going in a daily driver. I think he is nuts but whatever. It is something to turn a wrench on.

[Rob94hawk]

If got an LT1 in my shop right now with an AI 200cc kit on it. ;) Going in a daily driver. I think he is nuts but whatever. It is something to turn a wrench on.

What is a AI 200cc kit?

[lun40119]

Buddy bought a heads/cam/intake kit from Advanced Induction.

[Paulster2]

... Don't kid yourself the only real thing that seperates the Gen 2 SBC's is their ignition system and intake manifold. But then again technology made advancements and outdated the LT's, why not take advantage of those capabilities.

Please don't forget the reverse-flow cooling. IT is really what differentiates the gen I from the gen II engines.

[jerry clayton]

I really like the reverse flow and also the gear driven water pump--I have a special 96 LT in my wifes 33 ford coupe and its nice not to have a belt/pulley system for the pump

Another thing to do on my horizon is to make some fixtures for modifying the intake manifold so I can run a crank triggered distributor and also a couple other cooling mods so the lt intake can be used on the crossfire tbi engines--we just did a 84 vette engine and that crossfire thing is so restricted I;m surprised the engine ran fast enough to charge the battery---wait--all those guuys do use a battery tender--

[Awesome Bill]

4.5" stroke in a standard cam location SBC? :eek:

But didn't you type this on 03-30-2009, 05:05 AM :confused:

I did not mean stock cam location blocks and was referring to the LS1 stuff. ofcourse not, .391 rasied cam with aluminum rods, steel rods are so much easier. We started the 4½ crank 496 stuff 5 years ago.

[Awesome Bill]

I can't wait!

How much does it cost to become a Dart dealer? Usually there is a minimum buy in. The shop near me is interested in purchasing a block as well.

used to be $50,000.00 I know, I was not one of those oldy customers that got a freebie in.

[Awesome Bill]

Never said 6-8 weeks. Never gave any definitive time frame.

We currently have other R&D projects ahead of this one, so it isn't going to be a fast development time.

When it's done it will be done right.

make everyone put up $1000.00 deposit and see how many put up? They will drop like flies. That block will not be a killer mover as you think. Jesel could fix the ignition most likely?

[rskrause]

I am too lazy to read the whole thread :p So, could someone please tell if these blocks are being produced?

Thanks.

[jerry clayton]

No the lt shp block is not being produced, they have returned the sample block to us.

However, since we couldn't get the shp project accomplished, we have been getting a large supply of lt cores and are installing splayed 4 bolt billet main caps, decking, torque plate bore/hone and building 383/396 stroker engines for the LT guys---seems to be hot item especially the Buick/Cad/Impala SS along with the Vett, Camaro, firebird guys and also the occasional street rodder.

Jerry

[CNC BLOCKS]

I am too lazy to read the whole thread :p So, could someone please tell if these blocks are being produced?

Thanks.


As mentioned those blocks will not be produced by Dart and Chad Golens http://www.golenengineservice.com/ buys those blocks by the tractor trailer loads.

We have run quite a few of those blocks through our CNC machine for cap work ETC.

[metal tech]

Is/was it your intention to use this reverse cooled SHP style block to preserve the factory ecm & ABS and other systems while having a big cid engine? There is a company that makes optispark conversions for "normal" distributors to maintain the factory ecm & all subsystems working right. You do lose the reverse cooling benefit & the factory underhood look.

[Rob94hawk]

No the lt shp block is not being produced, they have returned the sample block to us.

However, since we couldn't get the shp project accomplished, we have been getting a large supply of lt cores and are installing splayed 4 bolt billet main caps, decking, torque plate bore/hone and building 383/396 stroker engines for the LT guys---seems to be hot item especially the Buick/Cad/Impala SS along with the Vett, Camaro, firebird guys and also the occasional street rodder.

Jerry

Your about 20 years too late. Everyone one their mother does 383/396's. The LTx crowd was looking for innovation. Other than deck plating and sleeving the LT1, we were hoping the big cube LTx block was the innovation we were looking for.

[jerry clayton]

Rob---we hear from about 3 people a day thats looking for an engine for there GRANDMOTHERS Caddie , Buick roadmaster, Impala SS---we thought the need was there for the vett, camaro/firebird guys but we are hearing from dozens of the other LT engine cars---and since the LT didn't make its appearance till 92, maybe we are only 18 years late

[Rob94hawk]

Rob---we hear from about 3 people a day thats looking for an engine for there GRANDMOTHERS Caddie , Buick roadmaster, Impala SS---we thought the need was there for the vett, camaro/firebird guys but we are hearing from dozens of the other LT engine cars---and since the LT didn't make its appearance till 92, maybe we are only 18 years late

But there's a big cubed chevy smallblock for everyones gramma, not for everyone's 4th gen. Innovation, Dart doesn't have it. Move on, nothing to see here....

[Dart Vader]

But there's a big cubed chevy smallblock for everyones gramma, not for everyone's 4th gen. Innovation, Dart doesn't have it. Move on, nothing to see here....
Seems unnecessary to say something like that... we decided not to make the LT SHP block in the end, yes, and that's unfortunate and disappointing, but it hardly qualifies us as a company that doesn't innovate.

A huge number of racers and street guys use our blocks and heads precisely because we offer innovations that no one else does...

[sonofgto]

since theres not going to be a block made for the ltx what about doing a single plane intake for the ltx's that would be great to have then you could sell a complete top end package. this is my first computer car i am build i have no clue how to tune the computer and theres no one near that can tune it so i have to take it out of state to have it tuned. i would love to put a carb on it and just go racing i no you can have the super victor intake holes redrilled to work but i would be niser to just have a intake that you don't have to have all that stuff done to it to make it work and to put the distributorsput in the back like a normal sbc to so you can get rid of the opti also?

[jerry clayton]

those parts are available

[sonofgto]

those parts are available

Send me some links to them I would like to see them. The only one I have seen is that dual plane piece of junk that gm has I want a single plane intake I have a edlebrock 2925 that would have to have the bolt holes moved to get it to work. Send me the links to the carb intakes u have found that will bolt up to the lt1 heads without having to redrill the bolt holes for it

[jakesz28]

LT1 bowtie block (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-GM-race-shop-lt1-lt4-engine-block-bowtie-chevy-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a5b48cddfQQitemZ25063 9601119QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries)

Well what is it going to end at?


I guess gm still has the molds to make these.

[jerry clayton]

Jake

Where is it going to end???? It ain't------We have the one only race shop block on E-bay--ends at about noon today.

As for others---we are busy doing factory blocks with splayed bolt billet main caps,line bore/line hone, deck, bore /hone cylinders with torque plates, and strokes of 3.750 and 3.875. More results are coming from the Buick Roadmaster, Caddie, Impala SS than the Vette, Camaro,Firebird guys.

There are two core supply companies here in the Chicago area that we are able to get a decent amount of cores from altho these LT are somewhat in limited numbers as a lot of that stuff gets shipped overseas( if not just melted down for the China) Also the cash for clunkers did in lots of good stuff that effectively killed the motor parts but supplied the South American countries with body parts.

[jakesz28]

Jake

Where is it going to end???? It ain't------We have the one only race shop block on E-bay--ends at about noon today.


Well good for you but I think you took the post wrong. I wasn't asking you to end the auction early I was just posting a link here to show how crazy some people are willing to stick with a LT block.




$39xx at the end of the auction.

You know 2 more of these ended up at a shop in NY

[CLAYTONRACING]

I think he did misread it. I'm glad it ended up with somebody who will use it for what it was meant for and didn't end up sitting in somebodies collection of STUFF. I wish somebody would make these blocks because I love the LT engines.

[jerry clayton]

Jake

Sorry but I didn't look at the Ebay link and answered along the lines of the whole thread---

Those raceshop blocks will continue to show up every now and then--

And as for the LT crowd----they will be around at least as long as the effects of the BP slick---

Was just yesterday at a guys place that had one of our stroker LTs in a really nice Buick wagon---that crowd is so crazy for stuff that people have been trying to buy parts off his car so being that he had an op to buy a nice Camaro chassis for $400 he is parting out a very nice Roadmaster wagon and transferring the LT to the Camaro.

We are picking up about a dozen core blocks again tomorrow or Tuesday---

[coleyhe]

I still enjoy my 94 SS, so much. I found out TPIS really likes your heads, I still would enjoy a LT4 build but feel with the stock intake ported and polished along with Alu. Dart Heads the SHP block will make around 500 lbs TQ, and 450 Hp very easy. when will this blo:pck be Av. for purchase.

Harold E. Coley Jr.
94 Impala SS #2,428
14th April 1994



O'Reilly Auto
26562 Moulton Parkway
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
WK 949-831-0434

[lun40119]

Dart decided to "NOT" produce the LT1.

[radcannon]

Bummed :( excited for a whole ten seconds

[MEAN LT1]

Just wanted to let you guys know that you really missed the boat not making this block.

[lun40119]

Build an LS!!! You will be much better off anyway. :D

[joelster]

Here's a thread on LT1's on yb, that you might find interesting. About 10-15 guys all chimed in saying they would have purchased one of these Dart LT1 blocks, myself included.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434531


lun40119--I'll go with an LS motor when something new makes the LS obsolete, forgotten and an underdog. I hate following the crowd. PS congrats on your Drag Week 2nd place and Hot Rod feature, your car is clean!

[lun40119]

Thanks..............it definately sucked having the guy covered, and finishing 2nd. But it is, what it is, and I had a blast.

This LT block stuff was definately unfortunate, because I know 2 guys here local that would have bought one, but Dart needs to do what is best for Dart. Especially in economic times like this, or end up like the other clown that was in town. ;)

If different is what you want............order yourself an IE block and put a Little Chief head on it and go out and WIZZ all over every LS engine on the planet. ;)

Or jump on ebay and get you some old Cup SB2.2 stuff and tear it up. I don't know what the exact number is that it would have taken to justify the cost to build this block, but trust me. They did their homework, and decided the market wasn't big enough. 15 guys on YB.COM, isn't going to cut it. :)