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View Full Version : Need help with ie 200 head 355


timothy_5326
01-29-2010, 07:26 AM
Can anyone give me some ideas on a 355 with ported and polished Iron Eagle 200 heads? I have a strip dominator single plane intake port matched to heads. I will be running a hydraulic roller cam setup. Its going in a 3480 lb 1987 Camaro with 3.73 gears, th350 trans, 2800 10 inch nitrous converter, 750 AED carb, true dual exhaust with one chamber flowmasters. I am looking for cam suggestions, horsepower estimates, and what ballpark quarter mile times I should look for. It will be a pump gas motor, and I am looking to get as close to the 11 second quarter mile bracket as I can get on motor. I will be spraying 150 hp nitrous, but only on occasion. Any suggestions? I know there are a lot of people on here who know WAAAAAAAAAAY more than I do about these combos. I also have a post about a 5.565 rod 383, but I am beginning to lean more towards a 355.....any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks alot......keep two things in mind...hydraulic roller, and pump gas. These are the only two areas that are not up for change. This car gets drove ALOT.

1987 Z28 crate 350 HO, 150 shot 11.72@ 118mph....looking to get close to that on motor with dart heads!!!......i hope:D

1997bird
01-29-2010, 07:47 AM
Do you already have a set of ported heads? Or are you looking for a set of ported 200cc heads? Have you zero decked your engine block?

timothy_5326
01-30-2010, 02:33 AM
already have the heads, havent carried the block to have machine work done yet, but it will have everything done.

want-a-be
01-30-2010, 04:23 AM
I think you ought to be able to hit above 500-525 hp with a 355 and those heads pretty easy. I'd look at the hyd. roller cam. But might consider running solid roller lifters. The hyd roller cam has a pretty mild lobe. So you should be able to get away with less spring pressure that I would run on a more aggresive solid roller cam.

Numbers might be something like this. 245-255 of duration @ .050 lift. Mid .550"-.600" lift. Something like 110-112 lobe sepperation. Leaning more to the 112 LSA.

I realize the old Strip Dominator intakes have been around for ever... But I like em. They need some plenum work to make them work better. But once thats done, for the money, they can be hard to beat. The link below is a pic of the work I'm talking about. I didn't do this one. But I have done this to alot of intakes before manufacturers started casting them in. The pic is about 6 posts down.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14970&highlight=plenum

Don

1997bird
01-30-2010, 05:18 AM
I've had excellent results on a 355 useing a hyd roller cam that is 234/242 @.050" 112+4 .544"/.544" lift with 1.6 rockers. That cam is n2o freindly as well up to a 300 shot.

lun40119
01-30-2010, 03:01 PM
I don't think that either of those cams on a 355 with 200's is going to make 500HP, but that is just my opinion. And, I am just a nobody. Things would have to be pretty well inline for that to happen.

With that setup and the HR, 450 would be pretty obtainable, without too much effort, and if he does it right, car should go mid 11's at 3480lbs.

Good luck dude, keep in mind, everyone at the carshows has 500hp, at the track it is usually a different story. ;)

Spur
01-30-2010, 04:33 PM
i've seen mid 500hp on engines built and dynoed using cams in the 255* range and under
.600" lift ranges before. and the cam was solid flat tappit. they had less then 12-1 compression. everything has to be right. and the chassis has to be right to be able to use it. you can't expect to put a 500 hp engine in a 200 hp car and be able to apply all the the hp to the ground. well i guess you could expect it.

want-a-be
01-30-2010, 11:15 PM
I've built and dynoed alot of engines using the unported 200s that made over the 500hp mark. On a conservitive dyno. Hoffman built dyno with a Stuska brake, running the Depac data system. 500hp is an easy mark to hit, if you're paying attention to details. Most of those lower dollar builds were using solid flat tappit cams. The more aggresive lobe of the hydrolic roller ought to make the 500 mark even easier to hit. Easier yet if you choose to run the solid roller lifters on it instead of the hydrolic rollers lifters.

Get ahold of me if you need any help Tim.

Don

timothy_5326
01-31-2010, 04:23 AM
I already have the hydraulic roller lifters, so I am going to use them. I am not as concerned with 500 hp as I am with getting the car into the 11s on motor. I have done suspension work to the car, I have changed the springs, and put lakewood 90/10 shocks on the front. I am running a 255/60/15 ET Street Radial. I am well aware of the suspension aspect of a street car, I have a buddy with a 408 in a 3680 lb monte carlo street car that has turned 1.57 short times on STREET tires, not drag radials....the car has been 6.60 in the eighth on STREET tires, and 5.90@118 on a 275/60/15 ET Street Radial and nitrous...and its tagged and insured, 11 to 1 pump gas motor, full interior, full body...it is the sickest street car I have ever seen. He has helped me with the suspension....i know that was off subject, but I figured yall would like that little story. I have looked at the 292 Comp HR, that cam in a 355 with 195 AFR heads and 10 to 1 compression made 520 hp and 481 tq on a dyno.....how would my numbers compare with the dart heads and that cam?

timothy_5326
01-31-2010, 04:31 AM
correction....its a 294 Comp cam...110 lsa, 2800 to 6100 rpm, 242 248 duration, .540 .562 lift.....how will this cam work with the dart heads?

want-a-be
01-31-2010, 06:33 AM
That cam ought to do you ok. But I'd consider the 1.6 rockers if you have the piston to valve clearance.

Theres a trick the circle track guys are doing that are required by the rules to run hydrolic lifters. They are running .100 longer push rods. Then they are setting the lash on the hyd lifters as if they are solid. Bottom the hydrolics of the lifter out then use a feeler gauge to set the lash. It's not a bad deal. Works with in the rules also...lol Just something for you to try sometime.

Don

Awesome Bill
01-31-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't think that either of those cams on a 355 with 200's is going to make 500HP, but that is just my opinion. And, I am just a nobody. Things would have to be pretty well inline for that to happen.

With that setup and the HR, 450 would be pretty obtainable, without too much effort, and if he does it right, car should go mid 11's at 3480lbs.

Good luck dude, keep in mind, everyone at the carshows has 500hp, at the track it is usually a different story. ;)

Jake I have to agree with you totally, 500hp for a hyd roller 355 pump gas motor is what it might do with the 150 shot.

I don't know what kinda dyno any of those boyz have used, but 500hp is not going to happen. So I would not get my hopes up for those #'s. Maybe they misunderstood its a PUMP GAS 355CI.

lun40119
01-31-2010, 01:19 PM
Kinda my thoughts.........must be using a blue dyno ;) It definately isn't red :D

Awesome Bill
01-31-2010, 01:21 PM
I've built and dynoed alot of engines using the unported 200s that made over the 500hp mark. On a conservitive dyno. Hoffman built dyno with a Stuska brake, running the Depac data system. 500hp is an easy mark to hit, if you're paying attention to details. Most of those lower dollar builds were using solid flat tappit cams. The more aggresive lobe of the hydrolic roller ought to make the 500 mark even easier to hit. Easier yet if you choose to run the solid roller lifters on it instead of the hydrolic rollers lifters.

Get ahold of me if you need any help Tim.

Don

Don, I would be careful not to get the man's hope up that far. Even the well prepped LS6 BBC only put out 525-550 @ 11-1 and was a race engine. 355ci making now over 500hp is well above the 1.408 hp per cu in. Most well built street engines only see 1.25 hp per cube and that is it. We are not talking the Engine Masters here, this is simple back yard stuff and even someone with a every available trick in the book will be hard pressed to make 500 hp from a hyd roller pump gas 355! JMO

Awesome Bill
01-31-2010, 01:22 PM
I already have the hydraulic roller lifters, so I am going to use them. I am not as concerned with 500 hp as I am with getting the car into the 11s on motor. I have done suspension work to the car, I have changed the springs, and put lakewood 90/10 shocks on the front. I am running a 255/60/15 ET Street Radial. I am well aware of the suspension aspect of a street car, I have a buddy with a 408 in a 3680 lb monte carlo street car that has turned 1.57 short times on STREET tires, not drag radials....the car has been 6.60 in the eighth on STREET tires, and 5.90@118 on a 275/60/15 ET Street Radial and nitrous...and its tagged and insured, 11 to 1 pump gas motor, full interior, full body...it is the sickest street car I have ever seen. He has helped me with the suspension....i know that was off subject, but I figured yall would like that little story. I have looked at the 292 Comp HR, that cam in a 355 with 195 AFR heads and 10 to 1 compression made 520 hp and 481 tq on a dyno.....how would my numbers compare with the dart heads and that cam?

At your weight, you only need 350 hp to put that big girl in the 11's. 400hp, a much more realistic # like Jake and I have said will put you in the 11.50's with proper chassis and tuning. Much more realistic!

Awesome Bill
01-31-2010, 01:23 PM
correction....its a 294 Comp cam...110 lsa, 2800 to 6100 rpm, 242 248 duration, .540 .562 lift.....how will this cam work with the dart heads?
that will work very well.

Awesome Bill
01-31-2010, 01:25 PM
That cam ought to do you ok. But I'd consider the 1.6 rockers if you have the piston to valve clearance.

Theres a trick the circle track guys are doing that are required by the rules to run hydrolic lifters. They are running .100 longer push rods. Then they are setting the lash on the hyd lifters as if they are solid. Bottom the hydrolics of the lifter out then use a feeler gauge to set the lash. It's not a bad deal. Works with in the rules also...lol Just something for you to try sometime.

Don
Don, we have been doing that for over 15years. This is not something new. The small block Fords where we have to use a stock lifter is where that all come from. Yes it does work well.

Awesome Bill
01-31-2010, 01:27 PM
Kinda my thoughts.........must be using a blue dyno ;) It definately isn't red :D
500 hp would put that 3500 car of his well into the 10's. He is at the least being reasonable with his hopes of that with the spray! Wow hp now a days is like going to the store and picking up bread. Must come easy. I can't get it! Where mine?

lun40119
01-31-2010, 01:45 PM
It can be done though..........it just needs to be a very well thought out intake and cylinder head package. Tom (3V Performance) has been to 1.74 Hp/cube on a 358. He has the engine posted on his website. I do know that for it to have gone through Toms shop, it has a near perfect intake runner from top to bottom. I know the attention to detail that is being given to my setup. My point was is that you cannot just start bolting parts together and expect it to happen.

Tim Smith
01-31-2010, 02:24 PM
Theres a trick the circle track guys are doing that are required by the rules to run hydrolic lifters. They are running .100 longer push rods. Then they are setting the lash on the hyd lifters as if they are solid. Bottom the hydrolics of the lifter out then use a feeler gauge to set the lash. It's not a bad deal. Works with in the rules also...lol Just something for you to try sometime.

Don

What am I missing here? Are they throwing away the spring from under the piston? That's the only way I can get it to make any sense.

Setting lash on a bottomed out hydraulic with nothing more than a longer pushrod isn't doing anything in my head. The lash goes to zero the instant you quit shoving down on the thing. Got to be heaving the springs and making a poor mans solid lifter.

just trying to learn
thanks

lun40119
01-31-2010, 02:27 PM
Pretty much what he is trying to say. They do that in the roundy round world where they are required to use a gurlie lifter. You and I can just get "manly" lifters to do the same thing ;)

want-a-be
01-31-2010, 06:47 PM
Don, I would be careful not to get the man's hope up that far. Even the well prepped LS6 BBC only put out 525-550 @ 11-1 and was a race engine. 355ci making now over 500hp is well above the 1.408 hp per cu in. Most well built street engines only see 1.25 hp per cube and that is it. We are not talking the Engine Masters here, this is simple back yard stuff and even someone with a every available trick in the book will be hard pressed to make 500 hp from a hyd roller pump gas 355! JMO

LOL Bill... I have to concede on this one. I'm just use to building 1.6hp and up with the stuff presented to me and I always assume that if I can do it anyone can. ;)

Don

want-a-be
01-31-2010, 07:04 PM
What am I missing here? Are they throwing away the spring from under the piston? That's the only way I can get it to make any sense.

Setting lash on a bottomed out hydraulic with nothing more than a longer pushrod isn't doing anything in my head. The lash goes to zero the instant you quit shoving down on the thing. Got to be heaving the springs and making a poor mans solid lifter.

just trying to learn
thanks

You don't have to take the spring out of the lifter to do this. You're right, it is a poor mans solid lifter. Ever have anyone call you after installing a new hyd cam and ask why they are back firing through the intake and exhaust? Then when asking a few questions about how they set their lash they told you they used the spin method on the push rods. Only to find out they did the "spin method" until they had zero lash. Then they give the extra - turn on top of the zero lash. Same thing....only you're leaving about .020" on the hydrolics of the lifter left for the lash. Works just like the solid lifter settings except it will run quieter like the hydrolics do.


This is the best I can explain it in text form. If you would rather talk about it on the phone then pm me and I'll let you have my phone number. I would be more then happy to talk about it with you. Will only cost you a phone call, as I haven't made 1 dime from any information I've given here.

Don

timothy_5326
02-01-2010, 12:25 AM
ok, i am not by any means a professional, but you guys really think I am going to have to spray 150 hp to get to the 500 hp mark? Thats only making 350 on motor, and you mean to tell me that a 200 runner dart head with a hydraulic roller can only make 350????? I had a crate motor with vortec heads and a flat tappet 212 222 .435 .460 cam was advertised at 330, and chevy hi performance took the same motor and installed a 750 carb and longtubes and it supposedly made 377 hp on a dyno......im just kinda confused about all of it.....just to say it again, the 500hp doesnt concern me, I just want the car to run 11s in the quarter with a 10 inch 2800 converter th350 and 3.73 gears......but I had to ask about it, I cant believe that combo will only make 350 hp.....with the 294 cam and the 200 dart heads, what REALISTIC hp numbers should I look for? 10 to 1 comp, 750 AED carb, strip dominator intake ported and polished to match heads, 1.5 rollers. I just want to get into the 11s on motor, because if i can get there on motor I can get into the 10s on 150hp shot.

3V Performance
02-01-2010, 03:29 AM
Can anyone give me some ideas on a 355 with ported and polished Iron Eagle 200 heads? I have a strip dominator single plane intake port matched to heads. I will be running a hydraulic roller cam setup. Its going in a 3480 lb 1987 Camaro with 3.73 gears, th350 trans, 2800 10 inch nitrous converter, 750 AED carb, true dual exhaust with one chamber flowmasters. I am looking for cam suggestions, horsepower estimates, and what ballpark quarter mile times I should look for. It will be a pump gas motor, and I am looking to get as close to the 11 second quarter mile bracket as I can get on motor. I will be spraying 150 hp nitrous, but only on occasion. Any suggestions? I know there are a lot of people on here who know WAAAAAAAAAAY more than I do about these combos. I also have a post about a 5.565 rod 383, but I am beginning to lean more towards a 355.....any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks alot......keep two things in mind...hydraulic roller, and pump gas. These are the only two areas that are not up for change. This car gets drove ALOT.

1987 Z28 crate 350 HO, 150 shot 11.72@ 118mph....looking to get close to that on motor with dart heads!!!......i hope:D

The hyd cam will limit your rpm and the 355 will need some. I say do the 383 if sticking with the hyd cam. Limit rpm and peak hp to 6500.

timothy_5326
02-01-2010, 06:34 PM
There are a lot of different opinions on this thread, and I take any and all into consideration. I am not one of these people who ask 100 questions and then do it the way I want to anyway. I can see the point you make about a 355 needing rpms, but is the 5.565 rod 383 going to be as durable as the 355? How many rpms will the 355 need? I have a buddy that had a 355 with 200 untouched dart heads in a 71 camaro that went 7.80 in eighth mile with a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft with 236 degrees of duration, but he had a 3500 converter and mine is a 2800. His is also a 10 to 1 pump gas motor with 3.73 gears. I guess my REAL QUESTION IS WHAT WILL I HAVE TO DO TO GET INTO THE 11 SECOND QUARTER MILE BRACKET ON MOTOR?????? KEEP IN MIND TWO THINGS WILL NOT CHANGE....HYDRAULIC ROLLER, AND PUMP GAS

timothy_5326
02-02-2010, 03:36 AM
Man, there are sooooooooo many different combos out there that some say will work, some say wont work....LOL all I want is an 11 second quarter mile car on hp. It can run 11.99 with a 9 for all I care, just want it in the 11 second bracket. HAHA