Living with Big Horsepower

[65Pickup]

Hey guys, I've been reading for a while and have been planning an SHP 400 for far too long. Here's a question, what's the reality to living with a 500+hp motor? What are the important considerations for reliable use? Mike

[Awesome Bill]

Hey guys, I've been reading for a while and have been planning an SHP 400 for far too long. Here's a question, what's the reality to living with a 500+hp motor? What are the important considerations for reliable use? Mike
A good engine built for 500hp will run forever, the fuel system, timing system, carb, tranny, converter these are the things that need to be correct.

Of course not being an idiot and knowing how to keep the engine running in its proper rpm band and not putting cheap oil or fuel not recommended for the application always helps

[65Pickup]

Thanks Bill, its a simple question, but I get alot of grief and opinions on what would be better. My feeling was good products should produce longevity, most guys who have trouble have old parts or poor maintenance.

[65Pickup]

The issue that I get confronted with is from street rodders over mileage and break downs due to:cool long miles on the highway! I have to travel several hours for races and good car shows. More opinions and actual past experience would be appreciated, I don't know many guys with stout hp street cars, so that's why I posted here, you guys live it.

[Awesome Bill]

The issue that I get confronted with is from street rodders over mileage and break downs due to:cool long miles on the highway! I have to travel several hours for races and good car shows. More opinions and actual past experience would be appreciated, I don't know many guys with stout hp street cars, so that's why I posted here, you guys live it.

Your budget is the only limit. I personally offer a 383 or 400, brand spanking new blocks from GM and SHP for the 400 along with every other part brand new. A 500 hp stock block will take the abuse but as with anything that is 30-40 years old, its the question of when it goes bad. With the new GM 4 bolts, and the SHP, I am embarrassed to even suggest a stock block even from someone who claims new life with splayed caps and a cnc race prepped block. They are all pretty much bombs just waiting to go off. The additional splayed caps are a very good improvement over stock 2 or 4 bolt caps but most of the stock GM stuff even the 4.125 bore stuff is at best now considered JUNK. You will spend 750.00 for splayed main caps and another $250.00 for everything else in a stock block, You can purchase a SHP block from some people on the net for $1200.00. Its a joke but you can. So I have seen customers get billed from a local yocal machine shop who does all this work, paid $1700.00 and the block split a cylinder not even the second pass. So he had to spend another $300 to sleeve it and fill it. JUNK waiting to cost you more money. GET A SHP bock or even the Pro Comp Block with the Billet Caps are much better than any stock block. Good luck

[65Pickup]

Thanks for the extra response Bill. I've been reading about the Dart SHP short block and felt this would be a more cost effective build, then the 454 I have. I get an after market block, assembled by a company with a racing history, at close to the same power level, plus my truck already has a small block in it.

Here's a twist, what's your opinion on solid vs hydraulic cams? most of the mags put together a hydraulic cammed SHP and pulled 525 hp. I figured if I used a solid set up, we'd push the power closer to 600 hp. Its a heavy truck and needs all the help it can get.

Mike

[want-a-be]

I wouldn't believe everything you read in a mags. They are there to sell you something. I'm not saying all the stuff you read is bogus. Just that you have to read it with a keen eye sometimes. They have an agenda, and it's to help their advertisers. Most everyone who has built, and dynoed, very many engines over the years have had more then 1 laugh at the funny pages. (magazines)

If you're looking for 500-600 hp then I would say you are going to need some sort of solid lifter cam. Get the Dart block for sure. You wouldn't build a new house in a sand lot would you? Then why build your hp engine on a questionable foundation?

Don

[Awesome Bill]

Thanks for the extra response Bill. I've been reading about the Dart SHP short block and felt this would be a more cost effective build, then the 454 I have. I get an after market block, assembled by a company with a racing history, at close to the same power level, plus my truck already has a small block in it.

Here's a twist, what's your opinion on solid vs hydraulic cams? most of the mags put together a hydraulic cammed SHP and pulled 525 hp. I figured if I used a solid set up, we'd push the power closer to 600 hp. Its a heavy truck and needs all the help it can get.

Mike

First, can you adjust valves? adjust them every week or month? adjust them properly? Do you want to take the chance that you may loose a lobe on a camshaft? That means the engine haaaaaaaaaas to come apart! You would be silly to use a solid lifter when we now have hydraulic rollers that will make just as much usable HP. Again 600hp rolls right off the tongue and is very easy to say. 500-525 with a good 400 or 414 would be more in the area especially if your wanting to use pump gas.

You need to clean up? what are your plans for this, how your going to drive, race, pro street, just a cruiser, street strip killer ? Many combinations, you gotta have one and go with that, then build the engine. Pesonally I would put a good hydraulic roller in it and put a good set of shaft rockers and you will run that thing for 10years without any problems with proper oil changes and NOOOOOOOOO Maintenance. jmo

[65Pickup]

Thanks for the advise guys. You probably deal with people like me all the time... mechanically- rookie, too eager- been waiting 30 yrs to do something cool, trying to justify spending the cash on myself (family guy) and nervous that I'll screw up a complicated piece of the puzzle.

I've got a good friend who builds engines and drag races. He assures me I can handle the solid lifter adjustments, but I think I'd be happier leaving everything sealed shut.

Bill, I have given this lots of thought, but living in small town Vancouver Island Canada, there isn't much experience to draw from locally. That's why I've reached out to this forum, to talk to people who live it daily.

I've got a '65 Chev step side short box (heavy 5000lb), anemic 350/350 combo. 12 bolt rear. This is a street driver, that I'd like to visit the track with for FUN. Everyone has 350- 400hp and that would be a huge improvement, but I wanted a little more, something that gets the adrenalin flowing just firing it up!

My next issue is the combo game, my plan was to order the 400 SHP with a Scat forged crank, Pro 200cc top end kit...but I end up with $7000 worth of parts, you still need a lot more parts and assembly or crate eng. etc. Pulling the trigger on this purchase is not easy.

Bill I've checked out your web site...nice!! I like that you supply trannys too, do you ship to no where Canada?? I couldn't be much further away from you.

Thanks again for your input Mike

[65Pickup]

I've added some pics of the stable...ha ha

[want-a-be]

65Pickup,

If you're interested. PM me and I'll send you my contact information. I can walk you through a very easy way to run your valves. Had the same conversation with a few of the guys here and I'd like to think they were able to use the information.

Don

[65Pickup]

Thanks Don, I tried to send the PM to you, but I'm too green here. Something about needing 12 post to use private messaging.

[65Pickup]

They'll only allow me to speak with certain people. We'll let this work for a while and then I'll contact you. I'm enjoying the advise.

[Awesome Bill]

Thanks for the advise guys. You probably deal with people like me all the time... mechanically- rookie, too eager- been waiting 30 yrs to do something cool, trying to justify spending the cash on myself (family guy) and nervous that I'll screw up a complicated piece of the puzzle.

I've got a good friend who builds engines and drag races. He assures me I can handle the solid lifter adjustments, but I think I'd be happier leaving everything sealed shut.

Bill, I have given this lots of thought, but living in small town Vancouver Island Canada, there isn't much experience to draw from locally. That's why I've reached out to this forum, to talk to people who live it daily.

I've got a '65 Chev step side short box (heavy 5000lb), anemic 350/350 combo. 12 bolt rear. This is a street driver, that I'd like to visit the track with for FUN. Everyone has 350- 400hp and that would be a huge improvement, but I wanted a little more, something that gets the adrenalin flowing just firing it up!

My next issue is the combo game, my plan was to order the 400 SHP with a Scat forged crank, Pro 200cc top end kit...but I end up with $7000 worth of parts, you still need a lot more parts and assembly or crate eng. etc. Pulling the trigger on this purchase is not easy.

Bill I've checked out your web site...nice!! I like that you supply trannys too, do you ship to no where Canada?? I couldn't be much further away from you.

Thanks again for your input Mike

I know exactly what you want and trust me you don't want solid lifter, but if that is your desire, we can make it happen and give you all the information to keep it running good. Its all in the oil!

Yeah, we ship to Canada all the time. For $7000.00 you can pretty much get what you want with the SHP block and 400 or 414ci engine complete with steel heads, intake, 4340 crank and H-Beam Rods, Wiseco Forged pistons that will handle some N2O if you ever wanted to go really fast. Your carb and ignition would be optional. I can make it happen and get it to you pretty sweet. DYNO tested and tuned ready to run. You would only need, headers, water pump and pulley system, starter, flexplate. My engine will be complete less those things. Give me a ring, I have been hear near 30 years!

[65Pickup]

Sounds perfect Bill. I watched some of your videos, impressive '68. My buddy has a '69 Camaro, 604ci Donavan, hilborn injected etc he's gone 8.35 1/4 mile... I'm amazed at what is capable from these cars today.

A few questions on your suggested build. These are not judgments, why iron cylinder heads besides price? Any other benefits?
What carb and ignition, and how much?
Do you have an idea what the torque and hp might be?

I can't thank you enough for taking me seriously on this, I poured over your Awesome site and your 'Street Heat Series' write up was a home run, it described where I'm at exactly. The Canadian dollar is almost on par with the green back, so nows the time for me. I've been going on for so long my wife will agree just to shut me up. Thanks again, I hope to be calling soon, I may start with a turbo 350 and get the engine going towards August. Mike

[Awesome Bill]

Sounds perfect Bill. I watched some of your videos, impressive '68. My buddy has a '69 Camaro, 604ci Donavan, hilborn injected etc he's gone 8.35 1/4 mile... I'm amazed at what is capable from these cars today.

A few questions on your suggested build. These are not judgments, why iron cylinder heads besides price? Any other benefits?
What carb and ignition, and how much?
Do you have an idea what the torque and hp might be?

I can't thank you enough for taking me seriously on this, I poured over your Awesome site and your 'Street Heat Series' write up was a home run, it described where I'm at exactly. The Canadian dollar is almost on par with the green back, so nows the time for me. I've been going on for so long my wife will agree just to shut me up. Thanks again, I hope to be calling soon, I may start with a turbo 350 and get the engine going towards August. Mike

Iron on iron works best with all gaskets and just keeps heat down and is overall a better engine. The aluminum heads are a bit more but not much$300.00 or something, I would keep it all Dart with the SHP block and if you went with the stroker 4" crank and 402" SBC GM engine that we make, we take a brand new GM 4 bolt and it comes out to 402". I have sold a lot of these engines for your application and even @ standard bore, 4.000" with a 4.000" crank and 6' rods, this engine gives you everything you could want. 4340 crank and rods, forged wiseco pistons, steel heads, aluminum heads, any way you want to go.

The ignition has to be MSD and the Carb would be QFT 750cfm most likely vacuum secondaries for your application. Yeah I know why vacuum, trust me you'll be so far ahead of the double pumpers it will be funny. Just let me know when your ready and we can work around your budget with no problem. Your wife will be tickled.

[1WILDZ]

My motor was dynoed at 509 hp 450lbs, its been together for close to 10 years. I dont think I have had the valve covers off more then 3 times. She still runs strong.

[65Pickup]

Very nice Z Wild, my son had a purple '80 with a mild 350, it was a blast. Love the wheels high.

[65Pickup]

Thanks again Bill, I do agree with the iron on iron, reliability is key here. If I have a great experience, then who knows what I'll be allowed to do...haha. I think you'll be hearing from me down the road. I know where to find you. Mike

[Awesome Bill]

My motor was dynoed at 509 hp 450lbs, its been together for close to 10 years. I dont think I have had the valve covers off more then 3 times. She still runs strong.

That is exactly how it is supposed to work. How many real miles in those 10 years? Killer car, love that year.

[Awesome Bill]

Thanks again Bill, I do agree with the iron on iron, reliability is key here. If I have a great experience, then who knows what I'll be allowed to do...haha. I think you'll be hearing from me down the road. I know where to find you. Mike

Take your time and choose your weapon carefully, you life may depend on it, I meant your wife!!!!!!!!!!

[65Pickup]

Yuk, yuk... good one, it definitely would be nice to keep both of them.
I'll be honest Bill, the refreshing experience here, is guidance. It's easy to over sell someone in the hp department. It's a powerful drug. But I was looking for honest dialog on what would be livable in a serious street car, owned by someone with mediocre mechanical aptitude (tough being honest). I appreciate the discussion. Mike

[1WILDZ]

That is exactly how it is supposed to work. How many real miles in those 10 years? Killer car, love that year.

Hello BIll, I think the key to the success of my motor or any race/street motor, is that I went to someone who builds race motors and not a stock rebuilder for one and two, we used quality components. I'm not saying the top of the line stuff but no junk. My builder at the time worked for Bob Ingels of J&B performance of Bedford Hills, NY. Bob was building the motors for the jim yates pro stock race team at the time. When it came time for the dyno, we took it to Pat Musi for a dyno session. Pat decided to hit my motor with an NOS 200hp big shot. ( I was very nervous) The motor made 709hp, and 650ft lbs and stayed together! I havent used NOS since the dyno session, but I was very impressed to say the least. So do I think its possible to run a reliable 500 or more HP on the street, YES..

[want-a-be]

Bob Ingels has been around for quite a while. I've heard of him through the Pro Stock circles. Pat Musi is also very well known. Solid engine/race guys.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

Yuk, yuk... good one, it definitely would be nice to keep both of them.
I'll be honest Bill, the refreshing experience here, is guidance. It's easy to over sell someone in the hp department. It's a powerful drug. But I was looking for honest dialog on what would be livable in a serious street car, owned by someone with mediocre mechanical aptitude (tough being honest). I appreciate the discussion. Mike

Most of the oversells are really people who just think buy adding all that stuff assures it will fly, well it don't and in most cases its still a pig. Either way, when your ready, I can shoot you over a build sheet with everything we put into the engine. And if you want, the dyno session will be placed on YouTube. A good killer 400 or 414 is very tuff to beat. They work well and require little massaging. To put it in prospective, the 400 has the same stroke as a 427 BBC and the 414 has a little bit more stroke than the 427. A 427 SBC is a 4.0" stroke crank and is the same as a 454. Kinda neat when you put a BBC crank into a SBC and come up with this stuff.

[Awesome Bill]

Hello BIll, I think the key to the success of my motor or any race/street motor, is that I went to someone who builds race motors and not a stock rebuilder for one and two, we used quality components. I'm not saying the top of the line stuff but no junk. My builder at the time worked for Bob Ingels of J&B performance of Bedford Hills, NY. Bob was building the motors for the jim yates pro stock race team at the time. When it came time for the dyno, we took it to Pat Musi for a dyno session. Pat decided to hit my motor with an NOS 200hp big shot. ( I was very nervous) The motor made 709hp, and 650ft lbs and stayed together! I havent used NOS since the dyno session, but I was very impressed to say the least. So do I think its possible to run a reliable 500 or more HP on the street, YES..

Your in decent hands, but the oil is the key, you just can't put any oil in flat tappet engines without a very good OS. Bob Ingels has been around. Pat Musi must of really wanted something to do just to pop another 200 hp of juice to that thing. Most of the time the ring end gap is adjusted for that . Still, I run a 468 2 bolt main block for 4 years and every pass with with a 350HP Big shot. Run 7.90's and clearly made people look. They never believed it was a 454+.060". It was and it worked. You have a nice ride there, nice to hear some decent information.