front plate / mid-plate

[snakeeater1968]

at what point is everyone choosing to run a front plate??? or a mid plate??? or does everyone use a solid motor mount in a street strip aplication on pump gas....i was thinking that with a 5-600 hp motor I could get away with running solid motor mounts... our Bird has a front and mid plate but it is a bracket car not a street car...

thanks for your time

[Bad Influence Racing]

A dual purpose caar with 500-600hp will befine with solid engine mounts. I wouldn't run solid trans mounts with them, but a uerothane will be fine. You need to have some give or you will crack bell housings. Either or, not all around. Just my .02

[want-a-be]

I'm a little torn between what I would do in your case actually. If you're going to hit the HP mark that you're hoping for then I would consider at least a midplate with your solid mounts in the stock location. Would take some of the load off sides of the block. Are you still going to be running a manual tranny, or are you going to go automatic?

As far as the tranny mount goes,....I wouldn't run a solid mount on the tranny at all, no matter what type of engine mounts you run. Even with front and a midplate. You'll always be inviting a cracked housing of some sort. Bell housing or tailshaft. I've seen them both break because of it. I like running the stock rubber tailshaft transmission mount best. I have even ran without any tranny mount, and just had the tranny rest on the cross member. The only problems I've seen is when someone tries the solid ones. The last few things I just mentioned were with both mid and front mounting plates though of course.

Don

[snakeeater1968]

I'm a little torn between what I would do in your case actually. If you're going to hit the HP mark that you're hoping for then I would consider at least a midplate with your solid mounts in the stock location. Would take some of the load off sides of the block. Are you still going to be running a manual tranny, or are you going to go automatic?

As far as the tranny mount goes,....I wouldn't run a solid mount on the tranny at all, no matter what type of engine mounts you run. Even with front and a midplate. You'll always be inviting a cracked housing of some sort. Bell housing or tailshaft. I've seen them both break because of it. I like running the stock rubber tailshaft transmission mount best. I have even ran without any tranny mount, and just had the tranny rest on the cross member. The only problems I've seen is when someone tries the solid ones. The last few things I just mentioned were with both mid and front mounting plates though of course.

Don

i will be running my 4-SPD and it has a blow proof bell housing so i'm not realy worried about that...but i am worried about the tranny...i have a poly mount for the tranny and i was looking into the motor mounts now... the current motor mounts are welded in...(they were that way when i got it). i want to replace the motor mounts with solid or maybe just run a mid plate and leave the motor mounts alone....i don't plan on hitting the motor with a stiff shot of juice just yet....but i will and i don't want to have any problems... i know that you have seen my car up close don... let me know what you think...

[underdog]

If you go to a mid-plate you have to change the converter pilot and space out the tabs or it will pull the converter too far out of the pump.

I broke 3 tail housings before someone told me to get rid of the soiid trans mount. I'm still running solid motor mounts with a torque limiter on the motor side.

[Bad Influence Racing]

I don;t really feel you will need a mid plate or an engine plate. Solid motor mounts will be fine. Have run a ton more power than what Snakeeater has and had no issues what so ever. Simple and effective.

[snakeeater1968]

hey i have a question about our other car, dad took it down the track today and it ended up runing....these numbers are from the very first pass right off the trailer today

60' 1.50
330 4.19
1/8 6.41
1/8mph 110.8mph

we are running a 541 BBp all motor no power adders, single 1200 dominator victor intake solid roller cam custom grind, jessel shaft rockers with a glide a fab9 3.89 gear and slide a links, we changed two things to realy pick it up but....one is the new slicks....the speed shop told us to not run tubes in the slicks....the speed shop said that the tubes cause the tires to crown...so this new set of 28" tall MT 10.5 we did just that tried it without the tubes....does anyone else run there slicks without tubes??? motor still has alotttt more just need to realy be able to come out of the whole better leaving now at 4,400 rpms on a limiter...looking to run high 5's in the 1/8

we have tried solid mounts on all our other motors in the bird before....motors that dyno'd at more then 800 hp and all those motors sooner or later end up coming apart and spliting the blocks this is the first one that we put in a front plate and mide plate and it's doing great so far...we need to tune the car in more now....car keeps getting faster

[snakeeater1968]

If you go to a mid-plate you have to change the converter pilot and space out the tabs or it will pull the converter too far out of the pump.

I broke 3 tail housings before someone told me to get rid of the soiid trans mount. I'm still running solid motor mounts with a torque limiter on the motor side.

i'm running a 4-spd so i shouldn't have to worry about the converter...goood to know info

thanks

[Bad Influence Racing]

hey i have a question about our other car, dad took it down the track today and it ended up runing....these numbers are from the very first pass right off the trailer today

60' 1.50
330 4.19
1/8 6.41
1/8mph 110.8mph

we are running a 541 BBp all motor no power adders, single 1200 dominator victor intake solid roller cam custom grind, jessel shaft rockers with a glide a fab9 3.89 gear and slide a links, we changed two things to realy pick it up but....one is the new slicks....the speed shop told us to not run tubes in the slicks....the speed shop said that the tubes cause the tires to crown...so this new set of 28" tall MT 10.5 we did just that tried it without the tubes....does anyone else run there slicks without tubes??? motor still has alotttt more just need to realy be able to come out of the whole better leaving now at 4,400 rpms on a limiter...looking to run high 5's in the 1/8

we have tried solid mounts on all our other motors in the bird before....motors that dyno'd at more then 800 hp and all those motors sooner or later end up coming apart and spliting the blocks this is the first one that we put in a front plate and mide plate and it's doing great so far...we need to tune the car in more now....car keeps getting faster

Judgeing by the short time, it seems like it has more in it. Improve on that and the faster you will go provided you have enough to run up top. I have done alot of Pontiacs and like doing them as they make real good power. If you need any help with the tuning process,either engine or drivetrain, let me know. Also, what is combination like?

As for tubes, I think this is one area people are grasping for straws. I have not seen any performance difference bewteen the two. Main reason people run tubes is because they don't lose pressure when the car sits for periods at a time. Main reason why people don't run them is in street cars with e/t streets or even at the track, if they run something over, its easier to plug them without tubes. Some people think of the weight with tubes and rotating mass..either way I don't see a huge gain or loss.

[want-a-be]

Kris is right about your short times. I think for that ET you ought to be running a 60' of about 1.40 at worst, of course,...if that happens, your trap time you be lower also. Are you leaving on the trans brake, or foot brake? That will make a difference on the 60s.

As for the tubes. I don't know anyone who runs tubes. I have seen guys trim some off the time slips by going from tubes to non-tubes. Including me. But not a tenth.

Don

[BERT]

"....one is the new slicks....the speed shop told us to not run tubes in the slicks....the speed shop said that the tubes cause the tires to crown...so this new set of 28" tall MT 10.5 we did just that tried it without the tubes....does anyone else run there slicks without tubes???"
I think the tube might crown the tire a little bit but what crowns the tire worse is when say a 10" tire is being run on a 9" rim. If the rim is smaller than the tire tread width it will crown the tire bad under power and you will not be using all of the tread the tire has to offer.
For a small tire car, I think it is better to run the rim 1" wider than the tire tread width and use bead locks or rim screws to hold the bead to the rim. This way your getting all the traction the tire has to offer while running more air pressure.
I went from running a 10 x 29 Hoosier bias ply D06 slick on a 9" rim with tubes to a 9 x 30 Hoosier bias ply D05 slick on a 10" wide rim without tubes with awsome results. Run no tubes and have fun!;)
If you find that you have to run too little air pressure to get out of the hole, it smashes the tire stupid like and then moves around on the track try running a wider rim to tire ratio. If your car is heavy a stiff side wall slick may also help. Sorry for the long post:)

[snakeeater1968]

"....one is the new slicks....the speed shop told us to not run tubes in the slicks....the speed shop said that the tubes cause the tires to crown...so this new set of 28" tall MT 10.5 we did just that tried it without the tubes....does anyone else run there slicks without tubes???"
I think the tube might crown the tire a little bit but what crowns the tire worse is when say a 10" tire is being run on a 9" rim. If the rim is smaller than the tire tread width it will crown the tire bad under power and you will not be using all of the tread the tire has to offer.
For a small tire car, I think it is better to run the rim 1" wider than the tire tread width and use bead locks or rim screws to hold the bead to the rim. This way your getting all the traction the tire has to offer while running more air pressure.
I went from running a 10 x 29 Hoosier bias ply D06 slick on a 9" rim with tubes to a 9 x 30 Hoosier bias ply D05 slick on a 10" wide rim without tubes with awsome results. Run no tubes and have fun!;)
If you find that you have to run too little air pressure to get out of the hole, it smashes the tire stupid like and then moves around on the track try running a wider rim to tire ratio. If your car is heavy a stiff side wall slick may also help. Sorry for the long post:)

thanks for the post bert we run a 15X10 wheel out back with the thicker studs and all that.... we are runin 13lbs on one side and 13.5 on the other...seams to be grabbing alottt better then it did....

on the tubes defence of this before we ran the car we have a huge 40X60 work garage....we did the burn out on the concreat and saw what pressure gave us an even patch and at what tire pressure...

did the same with the tubeless deal...still have an even patch...when we leave hotter it smokes the tires which is why we are leaving at only 4,400.... if this thing will leave man it'll be a beast!!!

[Awesome Bill]

at what point is everyone choosing to run a front plate??? or a mid plate??? or does everyone use a solid motor mount in a street strip aplication on pump gas....i was thinking that with a 5-600 hp motor I could get away with running solid motor mounts... our Bird has a front and mid plate but it is a bracket car not a street car...

thanks for your time

a mid plate is the only thing you need with poly mounts on the engine and transmission. It works way better if your car has a roll bar system with the forward bars to the front and the supports at the fire wall. NEVER use solid motor mounts, this is old school and the block becomes the twist factor and the sides of the block were never meant to take that type of power. Normal 250-400 hp cars NEVER came with solid mounts, there has to be a give. NO you do not loose power!. A mid plate fixes all that with an engine like your getting. Even the SHP or Little M blocks or any high power engine like side mounting solid mounts. They are junk!

Always run your rim wider than your tire, this keeps the crowing if you call it that from unusual wear. NEVER use tubes, they are junk and the tire is the worst area to add rotational weight. I don't know what people hear are talking about not making a difference but that is just wrong. For every 10lb of rotational weight, you will loose 1/10th in the quarter mile if not more. Tubes normally run from 5-15lbs depending on the larger ones. Tubes do not make a tire wear funny, unless you fold them inside the tire.

Nitrous now? Will have to adjust the end gap for sure.

When and only when a car leaves the line perfectly straight, then you have the chassis set up for the torque you have. If the car goes left, most likely right, your just twisting the axle up good and are leaving with 1 tire doing the work. That is why preload has to be adjusted for power and torque you are using. Like I have said many times. the thickest sway bars front and back make a huge difference. An anti roll bar also is the best bandaid for people who do not know how to adjust their chassis for power!

Put the mid plate in and keep your sway bars on front and back. Or, put an anti roll bar in!

[want-a-be]

I love the sway bar, (torsion bar, same thing),...but only after you get it going very straight with out it. Yea it's a great crutch for a non-chassis tuner to get his car to go straight. But the package works even better if everything wroks together. It's always a tuned package. Doesn't matter what part of the car you are talking about, bumper to bumper.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

I love the sway bar, (torsion bar, same thing),...but only after you get it going very straight with out it. Yea it's a great crutch for a non-chassis tuner to get his car to go straight. But the package works even better if everything wroks together. It's always a tuned package. Doesn't matter what part of the car you are talking about, bumper to bumper.

Don

If you get the car to go straight without an anti-roll bar or the sway bars, that is fine, but if you install them after you got it straight, the car will go slower from adding static weight. And, it would serve no purpose unless you added power, I will explain.

The only reason you would install the anti-roll bar or sway bars after you got it going straight with the power your using would be is with Nitrous being a power adder would of course supply more power and then upset the chassis again. The trick is to adjust the chassis for what power your using. Then it goes straight. I have almost 3 flats of pre-load to get my car to run dead straight with the shot of spray I need to run 8.50's, When I don't run the spray, I could use no preload becasue I don't have enough power to make the car turn right or left from the low torque application without N2O

As you are well aware, there is no 1 time adjustment unless you plan on running the same power every time. If your car goes dead straight @ 9.00's and you want to run 8.50's, like I run, you will need to put another 200hp to the rear wheel. If your car goes dead straight @ 9.00 and you apply 200 more hp, your car will now tend to go to the right with the same preload and no anti-roll bars or sway bars you were running 9.00's with.

So you would have to add another 20-40lbs of pre-load on the right rear tire if your chassis could not distribute the added torque properly or as a car would do with no anti-roll bar to use the added 200hp. Bet some heads are rethinking now with every one who has ever had to steer their cars back from the quick right turn on the launch.

It is really silly to watch some of these cars almost hit the wall and then back over the center line. Occasionally I intentionally have some racers pull their cars into my 40ft enclosed 3 car trailer and up on my lift and I do a 5 minute preload adjustment and their car goes dead straight. They can never understand it. I don't show them because they are in the car as the car is raced. They always say we scaled the car and it did not help and I spent $400. I then tell them well this should be worth $100 now being it always goes straight when I am done. You know the feeling don't you Don? We should get paid if they got paid and did not do right.

[want-a-be]

They always say we scaled the car and it did not help and I spent $400. I then tell them well this should be worth $100 now being it always goes straight when I am done. You know the feeling don't you Don? We should get paid if they got paid and did not do right.

I know exactly what you're saying, happens all the time. :rolleyes: But it does feel good knowing I was able to help out. ;)

Don