Valve springs

[Shortblock]

I sold my 385 shortblock and vortec head combo to a friend because i was going to go back to factory engine specs with a TBI.

But i found a complete 383 with 1800 local miles on Craigslist here so i picked it up. ( yeah i know )

So anyways, its a 383 4 bolt main block with a competition rotating ass and SRP pistons @ 10:1
Lunati Voodoo 60103


Dart iron eagle S/S heads 2.02 1.94 72 cc
1.65 Harland Sharp rollers and stud girdle ( now on ebay )
performer intake ( will probably swap to a Air gap.)
7qt oil pan.


now the guy that owned the engine is a nice dude, and the guys at the shop are cool.

Anyways after i get it home and start to inspect everything i noticed the valve seals are stuck to the bottom of the retainers??? And the P/Rd's were almost but up against the heads, but no markings of any wear on them. Only ran this way for 200 miles after they swapped out the 1.52 for the 1.65 rockers.

So now im curiouse, i called the x owner talked to him and he didn't know what i was talking about. So i talked to the guy who did the top end and asked him why did you run 1.65 rocker, did you match the springs with the cam and why are the valve seals riding on the stem instead of staying in place where they seal?

His response,

I checked everthing out and sbc's don't really need valve seals It stupid if you put them on but people do it.

Ok now flags are flying......

I just said ok thanks.

Called dart and asked what the specs are for the Eagle heads that come assembled and this is what i got.

Seat load. 120

Open load. 289 I didn't get any height with the #'s

Now Lunati's.
Seat Load: 108 lbs @ 1.750 in.
Open Load: 339 lbs @ 1.250 in.

not even close to what i need for the installed cam. ( if it is really a 60103 )

So i think it has too much lift with the 1.65's and the springs are almost stacked when valve is open. Thus the dampner is pulling the seal off ?

Im going to use the comp mag 1.52 steel rollers.
I also noticed the pushrods are longer leading me to believe it has a sbc cam installed
stock = 7.800
whats installed= 7.990

One other thing im going to change rockers, will i need guide plates or self aligning rockers.

I did do some searching but never got an exact answer.
Head casting # 10021070


Im not doing any racing or any hi rpms, i just want to cruise to and from work. how long can i get away with running these lighter springs with this cam.

Oh and if you are wondering why the old guy sold this engine is because it was in a 72 pickup he restored and now it sports a BBC KB468

Been lurking here for awhile and it seems there is a good group here...



Oh and this is my first post so go easy on me:D

[want-a-be]

Welcome to the Dart Board Shortblock.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

I sold my 385 shortblock and vortec head combo to a friend because i was going to go back to factory engine specs with a TBI.

But i found a complete 383 with 1800 local miles on Craigslist here so i picked it up. ( yeah i know )

So anyways, its a 383 4 bolt main block with a competition rotating ass and SRP pistons @ 10:1
Lunati Voodoo 60103


Dart iron eagle S/S heads 2.02 1.94 72 cc
1.65 Harland Sharp rollers and stud girdle ( now on ebay )
performer intake ( will probably swap to a Air gap.)
7qt oil pan.



now the guy that owned the engine is a nice dude, and the guys at the shop are cool.

Anyways after i get it home and start to inspect everything i noticed the valve seals are stuck to the bottom of the retainers??? And the P/Rd's were almost but up against the heads, but no markings of any wear on them. Only ran this way for 200 miles after they swapped out the 1.52 for the 1.65 rockers.

So now im curiouse, i called the x owner talked to him and he didn't know what i was talking about. So i talked to the guy who did the top end and asked him why did you run 1.65 rocker, did you match the springs with the cam and why are the valve seals riding on the stem instead of staying in place where they seal?

His response,

I checked everthing out and sbc's don't really need valve seals It stupid if you put them on but people do it.

Ok now flags are flying......

I just said ok thanks.

Called dart and asked what the specs are for the Eagle heads that come assembled and this is what i got.

Seat load. 120

Open load. 289 I didn't get any height with the #'s

Now Lunati's.
Seat Load: 108 lbs @ 1.750 in.
Open Load: 339 lbs @ 1.250 in.

not even close to what i need for the installed cam. ( if it is really a 60103 )

So i think it has too much lift with the 1.65's and the springs are almost stacked when valve is open. Thus the dampner is pulling the seal off ?

Im going to use the comp mag 1.52 steel rollers.
I also noticed the pushrods are longer leading me to believe it has a sbc cam installed
stock = 7.800
whats installed= 7.990

One other thing im going to change rockers, will i need guide plates or self aligning rockers.

I did do some searching but never got an exact answer.
Head casting # 10021070


Im not doing any racing or any hi rpms, i just want to cruise to and from work. how long can i get away with running these lighter springs with this cam.

Oh and if you are wondering why the old guy sold this engine is because it was in a 72 pickup he restored and now it sports a BBC KB468

Been lurking here for awhile and it seems there is a good group here...



Oh and this is my first post so go easy on me:D

looks like he is right. We very seldom put seals on brand new heads with brand new valves and guides, they are really not needed. I put them on street engines because I know they will wear. But a proper guide and valve clearance does not need a seal. GM for years only put a small oring that sealed the retainer not the guide.

The springs are a little to light on the top side but will work. This is a realatively low rpm engine. I hate the 1.240 spring and wish they would stop making it. I use it because its cheap and it works fine when properly set up for the lobe and the rocker ratio. That is the same combination I use all the time with my street heat 383 engine. So don't worry, fix the seals, put a set of Manley springs on it and you'll be fine. The longer push rod is not really wrong, depends on geometry. Proper geometry is what it is and you use what you have to, to make it correct.

[Shortblock]

looks like he is right. We very seldom put seals on brand new heads with brand new valves and guides, they are really not needed. I put them on street engines because I know they will wear. But a proper guide and valve clearance does not need a seal. GM for years only put a small oring that sealed the retainer not the guide.

The springs are a little to light on the top side but will work. This is a realatively low rpm engine. I hate the 1.240 spring and wish they would stop making it. I use it because its cheap and it works fine when properly set up for the lobe and the rocker ratio. That is the same combination I use all the time with my street heat 383 engine. So don't worry, fix the seals, put a set of Manley springs on it and you'll be fine. The longer push rod is not really wrong, depends on geometry. Proper geometry is what it is and you use what you have to, to make it correct.

Thank you for replying to this.

I do have a few questions.

You say you run this set up, is that with the 1.65 rockers ? should i keep them on instead of going to the 1.52?

And do i need self aligning rockers that i hear about, what was on there was non aligning.

manley springs, do you have a part # that would be a drop in cause i dont want to have to pull the heads and maching them for bigger springs

[Awesome Bill]

The Manley basic spring package is #221423-16 installs @ 115lbs @ 1.750 and has 350@ 1.175 and will handle a .575 camshaft. This is for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft. There are others and they are very nice but these are what we use for our street heat series engines.

You will need self aligning rockers if you don't have guide plates. Those heads come with screw in studs and guide plates. If you don't have them you better get them. hth

[Shortblock]

The Manley basic spring package is #221423-16 installs @ 115lbs @ 1.750 and has 350@ 1.175 and will handle a .575 camshaft. This is for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft. There are others and they are very nice but these are what we use for our street heat series engines.

You will need self aligning rockers if you don't have guide plates. Those heads come with screw in studs and guide plates. If you don't have them you better get them. hth

Ok thanks,

Looks like i will need to take the heads to the machine shop to get the spring seat opened up so they will fit. Was kinda wanting to avoid pulling the heads.

Called dart , they said no guideplates or self aligning rockers needed ? So i will take your advice and pick up some self aligning rockers;)

Thanks again, i will have more ?'s coming your way im sure:D

[Awesome Bill]

Ok thanks,

Looks like i will need to take the heads to the machine shop to get the spring seat opened up so they will fit. Was kinda wanting to avoid pulling the heads.

Called dart , they said no guideplates or self aligning rockers needed ? So i will take your advice and pick up some self aligning rockers;)

Thanks again, i will have more ?'s coming your way im sure:D

Those Manley Valve Springs are a direct replacement, you do not need to take the heads off for that. If you upgrade to a 1.3 or 1.4 or something larger, you may need to do it but not likely. Depends on what your final lift is with rocker and see if that spring will work. There are some killer 1.240 spring and titanium retainers we can get from Associated that rock. You can run up to .650" lift with this package. You do not have to pull the heads.

[Shortblock]

Thank you, thats a reliefe. What do you think of the comp Bee hive springs?
Since im going over to self aligning rockers, can someone give advice on how to clearance the pushrod guides, they seem pretty tight with 5/16 rods and i dont want any binding between the p/r and rockers.
pic for reference.

[Shortblock]

:D

[Shortblock]

Sorry had to get my post count up in order to show pics

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd269/2savage4you/001-25.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd269/2savage4you/002-20.jpg

[Shortblock]

Here is the springs that match the cam, would these be a direct replacement ?
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=452

they are a lil cheaper:D

[want-a-be]

Those heads do not require push rod guide plates.

I don't actually see anything wrong with the spring pockets either. If anything,...you may need to put a .030" shim that fits in the small step cut in the spring pocket. This should make the outer and inner spring pockets flush. But if your inner spring fits in it ok, and you have enough pressure then don't use the shim.

Don

[Shortblock]

Ok you just opened up my eyes, I went out and pulled the v/c off and noticed there is room for bigger springs.

I dont know why i was fixed on the cut in the spring pocket thinking it was all the room i had. ( Stuck on stupid i guess )

Wow i need to stop over thinking on this:o

Thank you ;)

One more ?

Since the existing 1.240 springs are installed at 1.750 and are .030 deep.

When i install the new bigger springs 1.266 springs they will not fit in the cut out so will it just increase the seat pressure and would i still have to check spring height.

I dont have a Valve Spring Height Micrometer

[Awesome Bill]

Ok you just opened up my eyes, I went out and pulled the v/c off and noticed there is room for bigger springs.

I dont know why i was fixed on the cut in the spring pocket thinking it was all the room i had. ( Stuck on stupid i guess )

Wow i need to stop over thinking on this:o

Thank you ;)

One more ?

Since the existing 1.240 springs are installed at 1.750 and are .030 deep.

When i install the new bigger springs 1.266 springs they will not fit in the cut out so will it just increase the seat pressure and would i still have to check spring height.

I dont have a Valve Spring Height Micrometer

If the pocket will let the spring set down inside it completely, your good, if not, go with a larger spring and let the inner sit down in the .030 and get a +.100 retainer and if needed +.50" locks. Go get the cheapest slide caliper and check the installed height from the top of the retainer with locks and you pulling up on it to the floor. Take the thickness of the retainer and subtract it from the overall dimension, that will be what you have to play with plus the .030" for the center spring to fall into. That will not help much but will be some. Go from there with retainers and locks if needed