415 sbc

[snakeeater1968]

just got some numbers back from the Dyno on my pump gas 415 SBC motor. one thing that struck me odd was that it didn't want more timing then 38 degrees. second is that it made more power with a modified 3310 750 vac sec carb.... but from the numbers it's pulling down it likes the carb and set up...it also seams to realy like the VIC Jr intake as well....as the motor is very responsive but shuts down past 6,000 RPM's i'm sure that Bill can explain it better then i can... i am pleased that the as cast dart Pro 1 215 with the factory clean up of the ports and bowles did so well...and still using the factory springs and 2.05 valve from dart....I'm sure with a better intake it would continue to build power past 6 or even with a clean up of the intake it may make more power but i would like it to make power down lower and not have to rev it past 7 and if it makes all that power before 6,200 i can live with that :D:D:D

[1997bird]

Glad to hear that your engine is completed and running well. How much power did the engine make?

[snakeeater1968]

Glad to hear that your engine is completed and running well. How much power did the engine make?

Bill was still tweaking on it when i last talked to him but it was up to a little shy of 600hp i will let bill post the details about it... i know that he is going to post a video of it on youtube and when i get the motor back he is going to send me all the data from the dyno... i know my dad is realy wanting to see that... i'm glad he and I are still talking....:)

i will post when he tried the 830 also and what bad numbrs that ended up pulling

i figure that Bill will post on here some time today with some numbers....

[Bad Influence Racing]

just got some numbers back from the Dyno on my pump gas 415 SBC motor. one thing that struck me odd was that it didn't want more timing then 38 degrees. second is that it made more power with a modified 3310 750 vac sec carb.... but from the numbers it's pulling down it likes the carb and set up...it also seams to realy like the VIC Jr intake as well....as the motor is very responsive but shuts down past 6,000 RPM's i'm sure that Bill can explain it better then i can... i am pleased that the as cast dart Pro 1 215 with the factory clean up of the ports and bowles did so well...and still using the factory springs and 2.05 valve from dart....I'm sure with a better intake it would continue to build power past 6 or even with a clean up of the intake it may make more power but i would like it to make power down lower and not have to rev it past 7 and if it makes all that power before 6,200 i can live with that :D:D:D



Compareing to our buildups, and nothing against Bill's efforts, I feel if this is a pump fuel street engine, could still use more cylinder head than the 215, especially if it is box stock. That is one reason why rpm is down, but can mainly be due to the camshaft as well. An engine of this nature should still be able to handle a 1,000 hp which is based off the 850 parameters. As for an intake, have you tested the Super Vic? We have made in upwards of 650hp on pump fuel in a street version, and that is not that pump fuel drag engine or a grudget version. The heads start as the 215 Darts but unlike the 383/406 engine, I start doing alot more port work for volume. With the 1,000hp, a Super Vic/HVH SS spacer, and the same solid roller, it is still under 7k at peak. Again I am not knocking what Bill is doing for you, as I am sure you will be happy with it as 600hp is not bad, just showing what can be done with these. I am sure Bill has it under control but if you need any help, please let me know. Otherwise, go have some fun with it, that is what it is all about...

[snakeeater1968]

Compareing to our buildups, and nothing against Bill's efforts, I feel if this is a pump fuel street engine, could still use more cylinder head than the 215, especially if it is box stock. That is one reason why rpm is down, but can mainly be due to the camshaft as well. An engine of this nature should still be able to handle a 1,000 hp which is based off the 850 parameters. As for an intake, have you tested the Super Vic? We have made in upwards of 650hp on pump fuel in a street version, and that is not that pump fuel drag engine or a grudget version. The heads start as the 215 Darts but unlike the 383/406 engine, I start doing alot more port work for volume. With the 1,000hp, a Super Vic/HVH SS spacer, and the same solid roller, it is still under 7k at peak. Again I am not knocking what Bill is doing for you, as I am sure you will be happy with it as 600hp is not bad, just showing what can be done with these. I am sure Bill has it under control but if you need any help, please let me know. Otherwise, go have some fun with it, that is what it is all about...

i think the key word for this is" have fun with it" i want to drive it and enjoy the car... i found out from bill just now that the motor is 10.2:1 and not 11:1 like i thought that it would be...making it realy pump gas friendly...when i get back i want to look into a solid roller cam shaft and an intake upgrade...but for the street this will be a blast to drive and sound angry beside all those imports.... i don't know how people can go so long without driving there cars... i hate looking at it parked beside the house under the car port and not being able to go and play.....:D

[Bad Influence Racing]

Completely agree. That is all it is about. The hardest thing is looking at the car, knowing it's getting warmer out and you can't do nothin about it..Enjoy.

[lun40119]

Completely agree. That is all it is about. The hardest thing is looking at the car, knowing it's getting warmer out and you can't do nothin about it..Enjoy.

Sounds familiar..........Hmmmmmm

[snakeeater1968]

i'm puting some Dyno numbers of the 541 in my album...these are the first dyno numbers from the BBP motor...and it had alot of work done to it after this but here are the numbers that it started with... as soon as I get the SBC motor back and take it to the track i want to post the numbers to the new motor....what it makes on paper doesn't mean much unless you can back it up at the track...:cool:

[lun40119]

I don't know what you are worried about Jeff. It sounds like a killer build. 600Hp below 6000rpm. That thing will go 10.18 @ 131ish @ 3200lbs. You are going to love it..........:eek: I did some minor calculations, and that is like 540ish ftlbs at 5800rpm to make 596Hp. Thats awesome from 10ish:1 compression, and a small head and cam with vacuum secondary carb. Can you say sleeper. Sounds like a ground pounder. :)

[snakeeater1968]

I don't know what you are worried about Jeff. It sounds like a killer build. 600Hp below 6000rpm. That thing will go 10.18 @ 131ish @ 3200lbs. You are going to love it..........:eek: I did some minor calculations, and that is like 540ish ftlbs at 5800rpm to make 596Hp. Thats awesome from 10ish:1 compression, and a small head and cam with vacuum secondary carb. Can you say sleeper. Sounds like a ground pounder. :)

jake, you plan on watching the dyno of your motor at Toms right??? his shop is only 3 or 4 hours from my house...i'd be a great way to brake in my motor...with a little road trip...

Motor sounds like it's going to be a ground pounder...i don't think i'll need any juice with the motor that Bill built....not for a while anyway...:D

[lun40119]

Yes I am going to fly down. That would be a great road trip. Going to be a little bit though. Going to switch pistons. More room for lift. Switching things up a little bit with valves, rockers, bobweight, and ring pack. Ill keep you in the loop. Might have a couple visitors if the timing is right.

Ill keep you in the loop. :D

[snakeeater1968]

Yes I am going to fly down. That would be a great road trip. Going to be a little bit though. Going to switch pistons. More room for lift. Switching things up a little bit with valves, rockers, bobweight, and ring pack. Ill keep you in the loop. Might have a couple visitors if the timing is right.

Ill keep you in the loop. :D

sounds good, is there a drag strip close to the shop??? no reason not to have a little fun...;)

[kremsg]

just got some numbers back from the Dyno on my pump gas 415 SBC motor. one thing that struck me odd was that it didn't want more timing then 38 degrees. second is that it made more power with a modified 3310 750 vac sec carb.... but from the numbers it's pulling down it likes the carb and set up...it also seams to realy like the VIC Jr intake as well....as the motor is very responsive but shuts down past 6,000 RPM's i'm sure that Bill can explain it better then i can... i am pleased that the as cast dart Pro 1 215 with the factory clean up of the ports and bowles did so well...and still using the factory springs and 2.05 valve from dart....I'm sure with a better intake it would continue to build power past 6 or even with a clean up of the intake it may make more power but i would like it to make power down lower and not have to rev it past 7 and if it makes all that power before 6,200 i can live with that :D:D:D

I was wondering what kind of cam your using eg. solid roller, hydraulic roller,flat tappet.and the specs if you don't mind.

[Bad Influence Racing]

I don't know what you are worried about Jeff. It sounds like a killer build. 600Hp below 6000rpm. That thing will go 10.18 @ 131ish @ 3200lbs. You are going to love it..........:eek: I did some minor calculations, and that is like 540ish ftlbs at 5800rpm to make 596Hp. Thats awesome from 10ish:1 compression, and a small head and cam with vacuum secondary carb. Can you say sleeper. Sounds like a ground pounder. :)



I don't know about that fast Jake.lol. Yea, he is making some good power, but e/t comes from how well you leave the line, unless his car has the gear and a converter loose enough to flash to peak torque, which shouldn't be a couple hundred rpm less than peak hp. These 3.750" stroke engines that make even more power than him still only peak around 5,200, and that is with a 6,900 rpm peak hp engine and with his cylinder head/cam combination only peaking at 6200 or so, I doubt he will be peaking that high. Just because it has 600hp doesn't necessarily mean it will def run that number. I do feel mph will be higher than his e/t if the car isn't optimized for 1/4 mile runs, as is every car that makes good power, but is setup for street driving with less gear and tight converters that have some weight on them..especially if that same car has a vacuum secondary carburetor on it. They just don't leave as hard. I am not saying it won't run well, just not THAT well and it isn't for lack of power.. I am curious how he makes out so keep us posted.

[Awesome Bill]

I don't know what you are worried about Jeff. It sounds like a killer build. 600Hp below 6000rpm. That thing will go 10.18 @ 131ish @ 3200lbs. You are going to love it..........:eek: I did some minor calculations, and that is like 540ish ftlbs at 5800rpm to make 596Hp. Thats awesome from 10ish:1 compression, and a small head and cam with vacuum secondary carb. Can you say sleeper. Sounds like a ground pounder. :)

You have to remember, this was a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry limited budget engine with a ton of give aways I don't normally do. Service men, I feel for them. Jeff only had very limited funds to do this right. With a 4340 crank and decent 4340 h beam rods, Wiseco forged pistons all internally balanced is always $1795.00. Along with the upgraded SHP block, and then all the machine work, he got a stellar deal. His heads are out of the box stock along with the intake manifold. I don't think anyone knows that Jeff sent me a box of stuff and I made a decent engine. Kinda like taking chicken ___t and making chicken salad!

Self aligning rockers, his, had to have 8.050" new pushrods, his old stuff was stock, went threw his heads, set up for .550 solid flat tappet B-6 comp cams, edm oiling lifters, we did not even resurface the heads, they were flat! New ARP head stud kit, had to take his junk 750 vacuum carb and make a killer race piece out of it. Robbed parts from the junk 830 Nascar unit that would not fall out of a tree. Over 100hp and torque down and would not even consider using it with his application. We reused everything we could and added new where his stuff would not work. New sfi dampener, his old one spun 1+ inch and we installed the new billet pointer. I hate tin ones.

Keith Dorton 830 carb would not even make 450hp out of the box and it was so far out, I would not waste time with it. Backfired down low and would not pull, way to lean and way to big!

I redone the 750 vacuum unit per my experience, first pull was over 500lb of toruqe @ 3400 rpm and 588 hp @ 6000 with a converted HEI MSD distributor with a total of 38° timing with pump gas. The smoothest broadest torque curve I have seen in a while. He can slip the clutch and this thing with a dead hook will have the front wheels up if the chassis will handle it. I put a good used locked out MSD 85551 unit in it and it backed up the pull with a 584 6000 rpm hp with the same broad torque curve. I am not going to push it with 40°, this is where you get into trouble. This are good dish pistons that promote excellent flame travel!

I am going to tweak the engine this morning a little and let her go. Time is money and this little girl needs a home. The AF is bouncing around 13-14:1 and the bsfc is right around .400 which is very good for that cylinder head out of the box. It wants more fuel for sure, but he has to drive it on the street so I think I will send some jets for the track with open headers and no air cleaner! You would not believe what jet I have in this with a pv in the front!

I have read and heard of the outrageous hp #'s from pump gas and while anything is possible, most likely not probable. With a decent car and decent hp applications with a chassis working right, this engine will be hindered because as with street driving and gear, it will have to do its best. With a proper drag car, decent 3500 stall converter under 3000lbs, this engine will run 10.00's if not faster like Jake has said. But that is a drag car and drag racing conditions. I will not say this will get all 588 to the wheel of his car, but even with this car and his driving as long as he can pull a decent gear @ 6000 rpm, this car will run and easy low 11's to mid 10's with stellar MPH. Getting it to the ground effectively, thats the key, is what he will have to do.

This is a real pump gas engine with no bells and whistles @ all because of conditions and I can't do to many freebeeees. The ring seal is killer and the valve job and camshaft is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Provide an amazing broad torque curve for a 4 speed street car. His chassis will need some bars and good tires and tuning. I can give him the tune up once he lets me know what the car does with this power. BTW, fuel system will have to be more than 3/8" rubber hose with a 5/16 plastic fuel filter. That won't go! Will post later

If anyone wants to give him a double pumper and try their luck, I encourage them to man or woman up and to step up and hook a brother up? Double pumpers, especially 950's will not work! If anyone thinks they can, send him one after he gets his seat under him and learns to drive with decent power.

[Bad Influence Racing]

You have to remember, this was a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry limited budget engine with a ton of give aways I don't normally do. Service men, I feel for them. Jeff only had very limited funds to do this right. With a 4340 crank and decent 4340 h beam rods, Wiseco forged pistons all internally balanced is always $1795.00. Along with the upgraded SHP block, and then all the machine work, he got a stellar deal. His heads are out of the box stock along with the intake manifold. I don't think anyone knows that Jeff sent me a box of stuff and I made a decent engine. Kinda like taking chicken ___t and making chicken salad!

Self aligning rockers, his, had to have 8.050" new pushrods, his old stuff was stock, went threw his heads, set up for .550 solid flat tappet B-6 comp cams, edm oiling lifters, we did not even resurface the heads, they were flat! New ARP head stud kit, had to take his junk 750 vacuum carb and make a killer race piece out of it. Robbed parts from the junk 830 Nascar unit that would not fall out of a tree. Over 100hp and torque down and would not even consider using it with his application. We reused everything we could and added new where his stuff would not work. New sfi dampener, his old one spun 1+ inch and we installed the new billet pointer. I hate tin ones.

Keith Dorton 830 carb would not even make 450hp out of the box and it was so far out, I would not waste time with it. Backfired down low and would not pull, way to lean and way to big!

I redone the 750 vacuum unit per my experience, first pull was over 500lb of toruqe @ 3400 rpm and 588 hp @ 6000 with a converted HEI MSD distributor with a total of 38° timing with pump gas. The smoothest broadest torque curve I have seen in a while. He can slip the clutch and this thing with a dead hook will have the front wheels up if the chassis will handle it. I put a good used locked out MSD 85551 unit in it and it backed up the pull with a 584 6000 rpm hp with the same broad torque curve. I am not going to push it with 40°, this is where you get into trouble. This are good dish pistons that promote excellent flame travel!

I am going to tweak the engine this morning a little and let her go. Time is money and this little girl needs a home. The AF is bouncing around 13-14:1 and the bsfc is right around .400 which is very good for that cylinder head out of the box. It wants more fuel for sure, but he has to drive it on the street so I think I will send some jets for the track with open headers and no air cleaner! You would not believe what jet I have in this with a pv in the front!

I have read and heard of the outrageous hp #'s from pump gas and while anything is possible, most likely not probable. With a decent car and decent hp applications with a chassis working right, this engine will be hindered because as with street driving and gear, it will have to do its best. With a proper drag car, decent 3500 stall converter under 3000lbs, this engine will run 10.00's if not faster like Jake has said. But that is a drag car and drag racing conditions. I will not say this will get all 588 to the wheel of his car, but even with this car and his driving as long as he can pull a decent gear @ 6000 rpm, this car will run and easy low 11's to mid 10's with stellar MPH. Getting it to the ground effectively, thats the key, is what he will have to do.

This is a real pump gas engine with no bells and whistles @ all because of conditions and I can't do to many freebeeees. The ring seal is killer and the valve job and camshaft is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Provide an amazing broad torque curve for a 4 speed street car. His chassis will need some bars and good tires and tuning. I can give him the tune up once he lets me know what the car does with this power. BTW, fuel system will have to be more than 3/8" rubber hose with a 5/16 plastic fuel filter. That won't go! Will post later

If anyone wants to give him a double pumper and try their luck, I encourage them to man or woman up and to step up and hook a brother up? Double pumpers, especially 950's will not work! If anyone thinks they can, send him one after he gets his seat under him and learns to drive with decent power.


Bill- sometimes you just have to use what you have and make it work and it sounds like you did just that. Nothing wrong with it and should be a very fun street car with balls to back it. Like I said, it won't to its full potential, but should be a pretty quick car none the less. With that said, I do hate to say this, but if you are insinuating that you are running a tremendous size jet in it WITH a pv, and still are only at .400 in the bsfc numbers, which I think are dead on, then by useing a larger carburetor with a fatter fuel curve, often requires less jet to achieve the same numbers. I don't agree that a 750 vac sec carburetor is it for 415 inches and a 215cc runner head. I do believe that you did your best with what you had, and made the vac secondary carb work to its full portential, but with only an old Nascar 830 to compare it to, I wouldn't be so quick to say that it won't handle anything else or make power with it. And with a mechanical secondary carburetor to boot, I am sorry I just don't see it and don't think it would be fair to make that statement. Again don't even compare rated cfm, but overall design you can't tell me that a 950hp won't work...you have me scramblin around looking for one to send to you lolol..I know what these engines do and I find it very hard to believe the 750 VS carb is all it will take. Again, bigger carbs don't always mean more cfm, but they offer more fuel. Anytime a carb needs huges jets tells me the system behind it is not sufficient. Now I am sure your dyno cell has a nice big fuel pump and line for big HP engines, so it wouldn't be that, but a bigger carb that meters more fuel will use less jet and run cleaner at part throttle. I am not saying bigger as in main body, venturi, boosters, etc..but remember what I said about the 950hp, other than throttle bores which won't make it run richer, it is basically a 750hp that pulls more fuel. Especially if it is the old 830's that use big annular boosters and are based off of 850's. They are junk. You made good street power at low rpm which should make him very happy considering what he wants to do with the car from what I read, I just feel their is more in it and can't say that it is all optimized without anything else to compare it to. I also know what I get from them in a max effort deal on pump fuel and are not exagerated or outrageous if the comment was directed at what I posted. Ok that is my .02. Other than that, good job. I completely understand what you are going through with the freebies, I to, have my soft spots and tend to work for free a little bit with some of the younger crowd, who don't have alot of money and are willing to learn and the ones who actually listen and not second guess me from mag articles and what the guy behind the counter at the local gas n sip tells him he should do...:rolleyes: Anyway, keep us posted with your progress..

[snakeeater1968]

You have to remember, this was a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry limited budget engine with a ton of give aways I don't normally do. Service men, I feel for them. Jeff only had very limited funds to do this right. With a 4340 crank and decent 4340 h beam rods, Wiseco forged pistons all internally balanced is always $1795.00. Along with the upgraded SHP block, and then all the machine work, he got a stellar deal. His heads are out of the box stock along with the intake manifold. I don't think anyone knows that Jeff sent me a box of stuff and I made a decent engine. Kinda like taking chicken ___t and making chicken salad!

Self aligning rockers, his, had to have 8.050" new pushrods, his old stuff was stock, went threw his heads, set up for .550 solid flat tappet B-6 comp cams, edm oiling lifters, we did not even resurface the heads, they were flat! New ARP head stud kit, had to take his junk 750 vacuum carb and make a killer race piece out of it. Robbed parts from the junk 830 Nascar unit that would not fall out of a tree. Over 100hp and torque down and would not even consider using it with his application. We reused everything we could and added new where his stuff would not work. New sfi dampener, his old one spun 1+ inch and we installed the new billet pointer. I hate tin ones.

Keith Dorton 830 carb would not even make 450hp out of the box and it was so far out, I would not waste time with it. Backfired down low and would not pull, way to lean and way to big!

I redone the 750 vacuum unit per my experience, first pull was over 500lb of toruqe @ 3400 rpm and 588 hp @ 6000 with a converted HEI MSD distributor with a total of 38° timing with pump gas. The smoothest broadest torque curve I have seen in a while. He can slip the clutch and this thing with a dead hook will have the front wheels up if the chassis will handle it. I put a good used locked out MSD 85551 unit in it and it backed up the pull with a 584 6000 rpm hp with the same broad torque curve. I am not going to push it with 40°, this is where you get into trouble. This are good dish pistons that promote excellent flame travel!

I am going to tweak the engine this morning a little and let her go. Time is money and this little girl needs a home. The AF is bouncing around 13-14:1 and the bsfc is right around .400 which is very good for that cylinder head out of the box. It wants more fuel for sure, but he has to drive it on the street so I think I will send some jets for the track with open headers and no air cleaner! You would not believe what jet I have in this with a pv in the front!

I have read and heard of the outrageous hp #'s from pump gas and while anything is possible, most likely not probable. With a decent car and decent hp applications with a chassis working right, this engine will be hindered because as with street driving and gear, it will have to do its best. With a proper drag car, decent 3500 stall converter under 3000lbs, this engine will run 10.00's if not faster like Jake has said. But that is a drag car and drag racing conditions. I will not say this will get all 588 to the wheel of his car, but even with this car and his driving as long as he can pull a decent gear @ 6000 rpm, this car will run and easy low 11's to mid 10's with stellar MPH. Getting it to the ground effectively, thats the key, is what he will have to do.

This is a real pump gas engine with no bells and whistles @ all because of conditions and I can't do to many freebeeees. The ring seal is killer and the valve job and camshaft is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Provide an amazing broad torque curve for a 4 speed street car. His chassis will need some bars and good tires and tuning. I can give him the tune up once he lets me know what the car does with this power. BTW, fuel system will have to be more than 3/8" rubber hose with a 5/16 plastic fuel filter. That won't go! Will post later

If anyone wants to give him a double pumper and try their luck, I encourage them to man or woman up and to step up and hook a brother up? Double pumpers, especially 950's will not work! If anyone thinks they can, send him one after he gets his seat under him and learns to drive with decent power.

I know that you built a killer motor Bill on a shoe string budget...and i won't be able to say thank you enuff for all the work and time that you have invested in this build... i am very greatfull for all of this and will send you something special when i get the motor back... i know that this was a great deal for me and i know that when the box of parts showed up you had to be a little sad...buttttt when my wife saw all those parts leave my little bitty closet.... she was sheading tears of joy to see all of the years of parts...FINALY get consolidated by a profesional on what works what is trash and now just have one SOLID motor to show for all the years i've had this car...i know that im not the only one that had tons of parts lying around and no idea what to do with them...you took my meager street parts and made a killer motor.... that will last for a long time

thanks again

shouldn't need juice now

[lun40119]

When will you get it back and get it to the track???

[Dart Vader]

I know that you built a killer motor Bill on a shoe string budget...and i won't be able to say thank you enuff for all the work and time that you have invested in this build... i am very greatfull for all of this and will send you something special when i get the motor back... i know that this was a great deal for me and i know that when the box of parts showed up you had to be a little sad...buttttt when my wife saw all those parts leave my little bitty closet.... she was sheading tears of joy to see all of the years of parts...FINALY get consolidated by a profesional on what works what is trash and now just have one SOLID motor to show for all the years i've had this car...i know that im not the only one that had tons of parts lying around and no idea what to do with them...you took my meager street parts and made a killer motor.... that will last for a long time

thanks again
shouldn't need juice now
Congrats on the new motor!

[lun40119]

I would be curious to see the cfm numbers on that thing at 6000rpm. That is really awesome power for a flat tappet, box stock 215 head with a vac 750. I think maybe I am going about this the wrong way. :confused:

[snakeeater1968]

Congrats on the new motor!

thanks vader, should get it back tomorrow or sat.....can't wait!!! i need to put some miles on it before i take it to the track....but should be within the next couple of weeks.. i may take it to rockingham in a couple of weeks i will have the camcorder rolling of course....

thanks to everyone here for all the advice and pacients....i REALY am greatfull for everything...

:):):)

i am very impressed with the as cast heads and SHP block...i know Bill is very good at what he does and pulled a few tricks to realy make some HP with a great power band... when you have the right parts it makes it just a little easyer...thanks to everyone at dart.

[snakeeater1968]

I would be curious to see the cfm numbers on that thing at 6000rpm. That is really awesome power for a flat tappet, box stock 215 head with a vac 750. I think maybe I am going about this the wrong way. :confused:

jake i have no doubt that you will have an awesome engine your really set up to pull some R's and HP up top... the cool thing is both our motors will run all day on 93 oct and are made to drive on the street...

Bill asked me...how much HP do you thing your car and street tires will handle??? i said i'm past my limit...he said...enjoy what you've got till your ready to take it off the road....

i'm going to do just that......:D:D:D

[lun40119]

Thats true. Thats another part of the story this year. I bought that Coan XLT, so whatever power I do make doesn't get chewed up in the trans. Then I had a 3.5inch shaft made for it. Switched to a spool, 4.88 gears, and double adjustable shocks. Also dropped the 3" exhaust, to go to a 3.5inch exhaust with bullets dumped at the axle to go with the Lemons headers that have a 3.5" collector. And I am trying to put big fatty on a diet. :D

[Awesome Bill]

I would be curious to see the cfm numbers on that thing at 6000rpm. That is really awesome power for a flat tappet, box stock 215 head with a vac 750. I think maybe I am going about this the wrong way. :confused:

We only got 94%VE so the induction system was a little tight, but, that was threw the air filter, I never took it off. I also never turned the intake fan on, just sucked the room clean with the large exhaust. So maybe with now filter turning the intake fan on to pressurize the room, good weather, it might go 595?

[Awesome Bill]

thanks vader, should get it back tomorrow or sat.....can't wait!!! i need to put some miles on it before i take it to the track....but should be within the next couple of weeks.. i may take it to rockingham in a couple of weeks i will have the camcorder rolling of course....

thanks to everyone here for all the advice and pacients....i REALY am greatfull for everything...

:):):)

i am very impressed with the as cast heads and SHP block...i know Bill is very good at what he does and pulled a few tricks to realy make some HP with a great power band... when you have the right parts it makes it just a little easyer...thanks to everyone at dart.

You should have your engine this morning or afternoon, It went out last night, call me for the bol # and I will give it to you. You will have to go to the terminal to pick it up. I lost a ton on this one until I sell your 350, we are putting it together now and maybe going to put it in the Malibu. Maybe just sell it and get some cash is what I am thinking. Have fun

[snakeeater1968]

You should have your engine this morning or afternoon, It went out last night, call me for the bol # and I will give it to you. You will have to go to the terminal to pick it up. I lost a ton on this one until I sell your 350, we are putting it together now and maybe going to put it in the Malibu. Maybe just sell it and get some cash is what I am thinking. Have fun

hopefully i can learn from jake and put some cool videos of the car making some runns on here... i will do what i can to show who made the motor and where all the power and parts are coming from....:)

motor may get dropped in today if not tomorrow.......:D:D:D

i have 3/8 fuel line....but do you recommend running 1/2 solid up to the regulator???

[snakeeater1968]

Thats true. Thats another part of the story this year. I bought that Coan XLT, so whatever power I do make doesn't get chewed up in the trans. Then I had a 3.5inch shaft made for it. Switched to a spool, 4.88 gears, and double adjustable shocks. Also dropped the 3" exhaust, to go to a 3.5inch exhaust with bullets dumped at the axle to go with the Lemons headers that have a 3.5" collector. And I am trying to put big fatty on a diet. :D

sounds like your well on your way to making your goals....thats cool....when you get the chunky radio flyer down to fighting weight that thing will fly...:) and sound bad a$$....glad to hear it's all coming together for you....

[65Pickup]

Congrats on the new bullet 'Snake', can't wait to see the videos. I'm talking to Bill about a similar build, your excitement is fun to read, can't wait for my turn:D

[BERT]

Snake eater you have a PM- Albert

[snakeeater1968]

Congrats on the new bullet 'Snake', can't wait to see the videos. I'm talking to Bill about a similar build, your excitement is fun to read, can't wait for my turn:D

I have the motor under the carport now it's time to get busy and get it fired up....it's been a long time since i put a new motor in the nova....yes i am very excited... :):):) like a little kid @ X-mass... i'm sure you will get way more then you pay for... he puts in the time to make sure evrything is right and all parts will work together.... keep me posted on your build....i'll do the same....he wasn't kidding when he said he was going to send me....LOTSSSS of data from the dyno but i need to stop typing and start turning wrenchs and get it back on the road!!! i'm burn'n daylight!!

[snakeeater1968]

Snake eater you have a PM- Albert

i shot you one back thanks Bert

[snakeeater1968]

I was wondering what kind of cam your using eg. solid roller, hydraulic roller,flat tappet.and the specs if you don't mind.

comp cams
part#12-612-5
engine:cs 300B-6

gross lift .562 intake .557 exhaust
duration @ .050 265intake 276 exhaust

lobe separation 106

just got the cam card.....solid flat tap.

[65Pickup]

I hear ya, Bill's the first 8 sec guy who remembers getting started! Or at least what will keep a beginner (in my case) happy. I've waited along time to play with cars, but I think my time is near...the big parts will be ordered this summer and all should be complete for 2011. Good luck with the install, I'll keep watching for updates.

[snakeeater1968]

I hear ya, Bill's the first 8 sec guy who remembers getting started! Or at least what will keep a beginner (in my case) happy. I've waited along time to play with cars, but I think my time is near...the big parts will be ordered this summer and all should be complete for 2011. Good luck with the install, I'll keep watching for updates.

what did you decide to build??? yes bill was great to explain and take a lot of time over the phone to make sure things where right... and explain to me alot of how and why's.... making sure the combo was right for my app...and cars power level...

[lun40119]

I am excited to see what it runs..........................

[3V Performance]

just got some numbers back from the Dyno on my pump gas 415 SBC motor. one thing that struck me odd was that it didn't want more timing then 38 degrees. second is that it made more power with a modified 3310 750 vac sec carb.... but from the numbers it's pulling down it likes the carb and set up...it also seams to realy like the VIC Jr intake as well....as the motor is very responsive but shuts down past 6,000 RPM's i'm sure that Bill can explain it better then i can... i am pleased that the as cast dart Pro 1 215 with the factory clean up of the ports and bowles did so well...and still using the factory springs and 2.05 valve from dart....I'm sure with a better intake it would continue to build power past 6 or even with a clean up of the intake it may make more power but i would like it to make power down lower and not have to rev it past 7 and if it makes all that power before 6,200 i can live with that :D:D:D

Glad to hear your up and running and all turned out well for you. The vac sec carb just makes no sense to me. I believe the carb blades are wot during a pull so weather there vac or mech controlled to wot should not make any differance on power numbers. It all comes down to fuel curve. The victor jr intake is more then enough to handle the current heads being used. Good little intake. The more you increase ci and rpm the quicker it reaches port choke. This is why you see a 6000 rpm limit. It will drop very fast past peak the worse the choke. Glad to have you come down we have some nice close tracks to try out your new stuff. We even have a chasis dyno that belongs to a close friend of mine if you want.

[kremsg]

comp cams
part#12-612-5
engine:cs 300B-6

gross lift .562 intake .557 exhaust
duration @ .050 265intake 276 exhaust

lobe separation 106

just got the cam card.....solid flat tap.

congratulations on the motor!I thought that cam would have lower hp numbers at 6000rpm considering the duration specs.guess it all comes down to the combination.Are you using 1.5 rockers?look forward to some videos.
ken

[snakeeater1968]

congratulations on the motor!I thought that cam would have lower hp numbers at 6000rpm considering the duration specs.guess it all comes down to the combination.Are you using 1.5 rockers?look forward to some videos.
ken

As everyone knows i'm on a shoe string budget, would have liked to lighten up the valve train..... had to reuse the comp cams roller tip steel rockers...self aligning with a 1.6 ratio no guide plates... on there deffence they are a good little long slot rocker...

[snakeeater1968]

Glad to hear your up and running and all turned out well for you. The vac sec carb just makes no sense to me. I believe the carb blades are wot during a pull so weather there vac or mech controlled to wot should not make any differance on power numbers. It all comes down to fuel curve. The victor jr intake is more then enough to handle the current heads being used. Good little intake. The more you increase ci and rpm the quicker it reaches port choke. This is why you see a 6000 rpm limit. It will drop very fast past peak the worse the choke. Glad to have you come down we have some nice close tracks to try out your new stuff. We even have a chasis dyno that belongs to a close friend of mine if you want.

depending on whats going on here....i would really like to make it over there before i leave... especaily to see how much the drive train is chewing up the HP... it wil be a blast!!!

[lun40119]

When do you ship out Jeff?

[Bad Influence Racing]

I agree with Tom on the carb. Saying the 750 vac secondary is the way to go without actual testing of others is a bold statement. It is 415 inches. All that matters is that the customer is happy I guess. As for chassis dynoing, I feel it would be a waste of time. Let the track tell you what the car is seeing. Good luck with it.

[snakeeater1968]

When do you ship out Jeff?

between now and the 4th of july....can't be any more specific then that

they could call me anytime and give me 72 hours to put evrything in order.....so i make the best of what time i've got...

[want-a-be]

You have that thing fired up yet? How far from it are you?

Don

[lun40119]

We chatted for a bit last night........he was going to paint the engine today and get crackin. I guess his wife has been adding to the bottom of his Honey do list. We are going Lawn Chair racing today. Taking the wifeys car to a car show :)

[want-a-be]

We chatted for a bit last night........he was going to paint the engine today and get crackin. I guess his wife has been adding to the bottom of his Honey do list. We are going Lawn Chair racing today. Taking the wifeys car to a car show :)

Honey Do list!?!?!! Man, Jeff, You need to demand that set of brass balls back from her and get to working on that toy of yours. While you have possession, burn that nice wooded box she stores them in. lol. :rolleyes:

You know what you can tell a woman with 2 black eyes? Nothing,....she has already been told twice...lol :p

Just kidding around. Keep us informed. And fight the urge to paint that new engine of yours pink...lol ;)

Don

[snakeeater1968]

Honey Do list!?!?!! Man, Jeff, You need to demand that set of brass balls back from her and get to working on that toy of yours. While you have possession, burn that nice wooded box she stores them in. lol.

You know what you can tell a woman with 2 black eyes? Nothing,....she has already been told twice...lol

Just kidding around. Keep us informed. And fight the urge to paint that new engine of yours pink...lol

Don

hey don your sounding like my dad now.... he lives alone and goes racing twice a week

where you thinking.... like a dark or light pink....has possibilities and may get me more money for parts.....you gotta do what you gotta do to support the habit...:o:o:o

[want-a-be]

I'd say a light pink would suit you best. But thats just my opinion. You know,...it takes a heck of a man to pull pink off...lol

Don

[snakeeater1968]

I'd say a light pink would suit you best. But thats just my opinion. You know,...it takes a heck of a man to pull pink off...lol

Don

I'll let the old man know that you would like to see my motor in a light pink....and see what he says.....:D:D:D

[Awesome Bill]

Glad to hear your up and running and all turned out well for you. The vac sec carb just makes no sense to me. I believe the carb blades are wot during a pull so weather there vac or mech controlled to wot should not make any differance on power numbers. It all comes down to fuel curve. The victor jr intake is more then enough to handle the current heads being used. Good little intake. The more you increase ci and rpm the quicker it reaches port choke. This is why you see a 6000 rpm limit. It will drop very fast past peak the worse the choke. Glad to have you come down we have some nice close tracks to try out your new stuff. We even have a chasis dyno that belongs to a close friend of mine if you want.

This is a real street car with sticky tires and should hook on banana peels with a set of small drag radials and a decent set of bars. If he uses a double pumper with a set of real street tires it will feel like its flying when he is burning up rubber! Put a street car with his gear on a track with a slick or dead hook and it will cough! He is going to drive this thing everywhere and race it sometimes. Why do you think GM Ford and Chrysler never put a double pumper on any real street car. Used a ton of the vacuum secondary units for sure.

They understood that when the engine wants more air, it will just roll right in. I was dyno testing the engine with double pumpers and would not even run down low around 2500 rpm. I pulled the engine from 6200 to 2500 and it coughed and cut off. Install the vacuum unit and the torque was killer right to 2000 rpm and on a 2 barrel!

The vacuum carb will always make more power and torque with street cars. Especially with heavy cars and tall gears and tires with 2500 or lower converter. The engine can't use 750-850-950 cfm of air anywhere under 4000rpm. Now if you run a 4500-5500 converter, sure it will work well. What little bit of slippage Jeff has will be locked up as soon as the clutch catches up if the tire does not spin. Once he gets out of second, the rpm will stay pretty much up there. But the car has to start from a dead stop. I don't think they have a thing called slow roll @ 4000rpm and nail it with drag racing.

Lets just see what Jeff can do once the car is on the track. The chassis dyno stuff is pretty much useless. A nice video will tell the story! A ton of power can be eaten up when the engine is in the car and on the street. Driver will also either make it look good or not? Either way, Maybe he will get it all done before he takes another trip over there!

[snakeeater1968]

This is a real street car with sticky tires and should hook on banana peels with a set of small drag radials and a decent set of bars. If he uses a double pumper with a set of real street tires it will feel like its flying when he is burning up rubber! Put a street car with his gear on a track with a slick or dead hook and it will cough! He is going to drive this thing everywhere and race it sometimes. Why do you think GM Ford and Chrysler never put a double pumper on any real street car. Used a ton of the vacuum secondary units for sure.

They understood that when the engine wants more air, it will just roll right in. I was dyno testing the engine with double pumpers and would not even run down low around 2500 rpm. I pulled the engine from 6200 to 2500 and it coughed and cut off. Install the vacuum unit and the torque was killer right to 2000 rpm and on a 2 barrel!

The vacuum carb will always make more power and torque with street cars. Especially with heavy cars and tall gears and tires with 2500 or lower converter. The engine can't use 750-850-950 cfm of air anywhere under 4000rpm. Now if you run a 4500-5500 converter, sure it will work well. What little bit of slippage Jeff has will be locked up as soon as the clutch catches up if the tire does not spin. Once he gets out of second, the rpm will stay pretty much up there. But the car has to start from a dead stop. I don't think they have a thing called slow roll @ 4000rpm and nail it with drag racing.

Lets just see what Jeff can do once the car is on the track. The chassis dyno stuff is pretty much useless. A nice video will tell the story! A ton of power can be eaten up when the engine is in the car and on the street. Driver will also either make it look good or not? Either way, Maybe he will get it all done before he takes another trip over there!

Hey Bill almost there with the install...had a slight problem...in the back of the block there are 3 little what looks like Npt caps....but they where not flush with the block and are hitting the fly wheel...i tried to just sink them into the block but they still stick out a good 1/2 an inch and i'm afraid to crack the block if i crank on them anymore to try and make them flush so the flywheel will rotate freely...Block is painted everything else is ready to go...i was installing the flywheel in preparation for the bell housing to drop the motor and tranny in all at once.... i'm ready to get this up and hopping...do they sell a more shallow cap??? i went to 3 different auto parts stores but they only have the same thing thats already in there....

i will post some pic's on my profile tonight or tomorrow...

[Trmnatr]

I did an engine for a guy, a street 355, it ran faster with a double pumper I set up for it, 750 double pumper with the correct boosters (had to send the main body out for this)

He did use a vac carb, it had some issues so I did the double pumper. The issue was every single time he would shift gears he would let off the throttle on the street and that on/off throttle was really bad performance, double pumper fixed the issue

Now I know some guys who fly in Super Class cars with vac carbs but these are $1k units too

[Trmnatr]

Jeff,

Thank you for all you do for the country. Be safe and hope you come back soon.

[Awesome Bill]

Hey Bill almost there with the install...had a slight problem...in the back of the block there are 3 little what looks like Npt caps....but they where not flush with the block and are hitting the fly wheel...i tried to just sink them into the block but they still stick out a good 1/2 an inch and i'm afraid to crack the block if i crank on them anymore to try and make them flush so the flywheel will rotate freely...Block is painted everything else is ready to go...i was installing the flywheel in preparation for the bell housing to drop the motor and tranny in all at once.... i'm ready to get this up and hopping...do they sell a more shallow cap??? i went to 3 different auto parts stores but they only have the same thing thats already in there....

i will post some pic's on my profile tonight or tomorrow...

just take a small grinder, tape everything up and cut them off, you won't be taking them out for a long time! We drill them out @ the machine shop most times because once sunk in and with age, the soft aftermarket plugs just strip right out when taking them out. Cut them Off!

[Awesome Bill]

I did an engine for a guy, a street 355, it ran faster with a double pumper I set up for it, 750 double pumper with the correct boosters (had to send the main body out for this)

He did use a vac carb, it had some issues so I did the double pumper. The issue was every single time he would shift gears he would let off the throttle on the street and that on/off throttle was really bad performance, double pumper fixed the issue

Now I know some guys who fly in Super Class cars with vac carbs but these are $1k units too

That just means he does not know how to shift. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler did it, it means something. Just think about it for one second? o.k. maybe 10 seconds for some of you. Put the car in high gear, @ 50mph maybe 2500 rpm and put 750 cfm into her throat @ one time. IT DOES NOT WORK! It will cough spit carry on and move up very slowly. NOW with the vacuum secondary, boom rolls right in @ the proper time and you will be 4-5 cars ahead.

Come on guys, I used to run a 4 speed 65GTO for years. I found out real quick when I pulled the stock QJ off and put on a 650 double pumper is when I lost ½ second in my et. This was 32 years ago. If it did not spin, it bogged. If it did spin, and I had to get it to spin to take all the cfm but then I spun and still lost e.t. This is street strip racing at its best. We are not talking drag cars here.

Any one who puts a double pumper on a 4 speed car, especially something like a 750cfm or larger without a killer engine with lots of top end power, a ton of gear and a set of slicks will be sorely disappointed. I have run more 4 speed cars then most of you have seen. Broke more Muncies than you could ever think of. The street cars always run faster with the vacuum secondaries, especially with a dead hook 4 speed car and most tighter converter stock gear cars. The smaller the engine the worst the affect is has on real street driving. I have seen the screw in the vacuum secondary kill so many street cars the customer did not know what to do. Actually Jeff's had the screw in it when it come in! Drive ability, some sort of fuel mileage is key with street driving.

Bold statements are backed up with actual track performance test. Even the BBC Vetts and bad ass Camaros with 427 4 speeds never came with a double pumper. IT DON"T WORK!

[lun40119]

Going to run a 1050 with a 1:1 linkage on my junk............converter is loose though. Do plan on dynoing with wifey's 600vac, though.............just for fun ;)

[Trmnatr]

That just means he does not know how to shift. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler did it, it means something. Just think about it for one second? o.k. maybe 10 seconds for some of you. Put the car in high gear, @ 50mph maybe 2500 rpm and put 750 cfm into her throat @ one time. IT DOES NOT WORK! It will cough spit carry on and move up very slowly. NOW with the vacuum secondary, boom rolls right in @ the proper time and you will be 4-5 cars ahead.

Come on guys, I used to run a 4 speed 65GTO for years. I found out real quick when I pulled the stock QJ off and put on a 650 double pumper is when I lost ½ second in my et. This was 32 years ago. If it did not spin, it bogged. If it did spin, and I had to get it to spin to take all the cfm but then I spun and still lost e.t. This is street strip racing at its best. We are not talking drag cars here.

Any one who puts a double pumper on a 4 speed car, especially something like a 750cfm or larger without a killer engine with lots of top end power, a ton of gear and a set of slicks will be sorely disappointed. I have run more 4 speed cars then most of you have seen. Broke more Muncies than you could ever think of. The street cars always run faster with the vacuum secondaries, especially with a dead hook 4 speed car and most tighter converter stock gear cars. The smaller the engine the worst the affect is has on real street driving. I have seen the screw in the vacuum secondary kill so many street cars the customer did not know what to do. Actually Jeff's had the screw in it when it come in! Drive ability, some sort of fuel mileage is key with street driving.

Bold statements are backed up with actual track performance test. Even the BBC Vetts and bad ass Camaros with 427 4 speeds never came with a double pumper. IT DON"T WORK!

Then you must not like or want to tune the double pumper

FACTS, Everyone is wrong but Bill???? Yes you very well may get better fuel MPG with a vac unit, but a double pumper TUNED BY THE PROPER TUNER will ET FASTER. Im not talking a DYNO. ET's

Do you know how many old phucks pulled the vac units off for double pumpers?

Bill, you dont say IT DONT WORK, I dont understand that, It does not work I do understand

What works for you, Im happy for you. I will go eat an Oreo Cookie and we will celebrate. I simply said what the ET's show on the race track for us and how we have got better performance from the double pumpers on 4 speeds

[lun40119]

:rolleyes:

[snakeeater1968]

Jeff,

Thank you for all you do for the country. Be safe and hope you come back soon.

thank you for the kind words.... there are alot of men and women out there taking care of buisness so we both can sleep at night...i have the privllage to call many of them my friends.... there are alot of the people civilan and military state side that keep our families safe while we are away...allowing us to do our jobs...

:)

[snakeeater1968]

just take a small grinder, tape everything up and cut them off, you won't be taking them out for a long time! We drill them out @ the machine shop most times because once sunk in and with age, the soft aftermarket plugs just strip right out when taking them out. Cut them Off!

i took a hack saw to it cut it off then filed it smooth it came out looking realy nice..not that anyone will see it back there....waiting for paint to dry now.. let me tell you thats a blast....watching paint to dry...LOL could be worse...

[Trmnatr]

i took a hack saw to it cut it off then filed it smooth it came out looking realy nice..not that anyone will see it back there....waiting for paint to dry now.. let me tell you thats a blast....watching paint to dry...LOL could be worse...

While doing that time how long it takes to dry for me at 70 degree's :D:D:p:p

[snakeeater1968]

While doing that time how long it takes to dry for me at 70 degree's :D:

Good point, it hit the mid 80's here today....can't realy complain... just ready to listen to this beast fire up.... and log some miles... :D:D:D

[Bad Influence Racing]

Uhh, not for nothin guys, but can we let this horse R.I.P please?:rolleyes: I just feel bickering over Vacuum assisted carbs and mechanical assisted carbs is pointless and is taking up way too much space in the forums..7 pages based on this for the most part is kinda defeating the purpose of helping out. We can all conjur up experiences of what works for us and it will take up 3500 pages... Nobody is going to change Bill's mind and he isn't going to convince us for ths most part that Pro Stock should be running Vacuum secondary Dominators.. (no offense Bill) Just no point in trying to convince anyone anymore. I find too often that someone will ask for help, we all give our .02, he can take it or leave it, but then someone needs to pick at something someone else does and it carries on and on and on to the point that the O/P won't ask for help anymore because of this..And just so noone thinks I am taking sides, do I agree with Bill on THIS subject? Absolutley not, and I am sure he knows that. Honestly I think it is insane to think a 650VS or 750 VS carb works on anything unless it IS a Pro Stock engine, but that is just me and my experience. But then again I don't agree with eveyone else carrying on for 7+ pages about it either..:( I think if we just give our advice based on our own experiences, the O/P's will choose what help they want regardless, based on what THEY think is right or makes sense to them, even if it is right or wrong. Bickering over the same sibject just looks unprofessional and people will not come here for help. Most of us will agree to disagree, which is fine. But why let ig carry on like this? Just my .02..:D

[kremsg]

Uhh, not for nothin guys, but can we let this horse R.I.P please?:rolleyes: I just feel bickering over Vacuum assisted carbs and mechanical assisted carbs is pointless and is taking up way too much space in the forums..7 pages based on this for the most part is kinda defeating the purpose of helping out. We can all conjur up experiences of what works for us and it will take up 3500 pages... Nobody is going to change Bill's mind and he isn't going to convince us for ths most part that Pro Stock should be running Vacuum secondary Dominators.. (no offense Bill) Just no point in trying to convince anyone anymore. I find too often that someone will ask for help, we all give our .02, he can take it or leave it, but then someone needs to pick at something someone else does and it carries on and on and on to the point that the O/P won't ask for help anymore because of this..And just so noone thinks I am taking sides, do I agree with Bill on THIS subject? Absolutley not, and I am sure he knows that. Honestly I think it is insane to think a 650VS or 750 VS carb works on anything unless it IS a Pro Stock engine, but that is just me and my experience. But then again I don't agree with eveyone else carrying on for 7+ pages about it either..:( I think if we just give our advice based on our own experiences, the O/P's will choose what help they want regardless, based on what THEY think is right or makes sense to them, even if it is right or wrong. Bickering over the same sibject just looks unprofessional and people will not come here for help. Most of us will agree to disagree, which is fine. But why let ig carry on like this? Just my .02..:D

I agree Kris.I've already gained alot of knowledge from you guys and it's up to us to decide what to try.If it doesn't work we try something else until it does.At least were getting info that works for others that we may have never thought of.btw hurry up and get your motor in jeff LOL.I should get mine back tomorrow and have it running by the weekend.
Ken

[lun40119]

Guys, with respect, and don't take it wrong...............don't click on the thread, if you feel it is a waste of time. I don't think this thread was started by Jeff to second guess Bills choice of words.

From time to time here, this is a pretty close group. Pretty much everyone has everyone elses phone number, and it may turn into more of a social networking site, rather than a tech forum. Is that right, no, but it is what it is. I start threads just like this..........and they ramble on and on. This is the setup subforum. Discussion occurs here. Not everyone can just drop everything at the same time in the day, and have a conference call.

If Jeff wants to have a thread about the entire installation of his engine, top to bottom I am with him until he hears it run. If he wants to carry this on overseas about how much he wants to drive it, Ill be here with him. ;)

Sorry for rant, but that is the other side of the story.

[lun40119]

There used to be two separate subforums, "setups", and "Tech". They kind of blended together, and OB1 decided to combine them. :)

[want-a-be]

Guys, with respect, and don't take it wrong...............don't click on the thread, if you feel it is a waste of time. I don't think this thread was started by Jeff to second guess Bills choice of words.

From time to time here, this is a pretty close group. Pretty much everyone has everyone elses phone number, and it may turn into more of a social networking site, rather than a tech forum. Is that right, no, but it is what it is. I start threads just like this..........and they ramble on and on. This is the setup subforum. Discussion occurs here. Not everyone can just drop everything at the same time in the day, and have a conference call.

If Jeff wants to have a thread about the entire installation of his engine, top to bottom I am with him until he hears it run. If he wants to carry this on overseas about how much he wants to drive it, Ill be here with him. ;)

Sorry for rant, but that is the other side of the story.

Totally true Jake.

While reading this post of yours Jake it occurred to me that Jeff is more then likely not going to be states side much long. Which means that poor old Nova will be neglected until his return. I'm thinking that someone, like myself, (of course) ought to do him a great favor and break that engine in for him,..you know, taking it out on those nice long high rpm burnouts and such...lol. I should be tasked with such a tough responsibility. ;)

Don :rolleyes:

[snakeeater1968]

Guys, with respect, and don't take it wrong...............don't click on the thread, if you feel it is a waste of time. I don't think this thread was started by Jeff to second guess Bills choice of words.

From time to time here, this is a pretty close group. Pretty much everyone has everyone elses phone number, and it may turn into more of a social networking site, rather than a tech forum. Is that right, no, but it is what it is. I start threads just like this..........and they ramble on and on. This is the setup subforum. Discussion occurs here. Not everyone can just drop everything at the same time in the day, and have a conference call.

If Jeff wants to have a thread about the entire installation of his engine, top to bottom I am with him until he hears it run. If he wants to carry this on overseas about how much he wants to drive it, Ill be here with him. ;)

Sorry for rant, but that is the other side of the story.

Thanks jake, i appresheate the support... If people feel that the post has turned into a waste of peoples time...i didn't mean it to be that way...i saw that there are a few guys interested in my progress...and like jake said...we get to know each other pretty well over the YEARS... i learn alot from here... I like to see both sides and tryed to post rather then PM to solve problems... you can agree to dissagree here...

I agree this isn't face book and will in the future try to limit the time my posts are taking up...

I am just a street/Strip guy that does this for fun... i will just PM people and that should solve my part of the problem....

Motor is done , flywheel is on clutch is on just need to slap the tranny on...will fire it up tomorrow...I'll send out some PM's and let some of you guys know how it ran...

again thanks for the pacients.....I will look for a new speed shop to go shoot the sh!&* at....lol

[snakeeater1968]

Totally true Jake.

While reading this post of yours Jake it occurred to me that Jeff is more then likely not going to be states side much long. Which means that poor old Nova will be neglected until his return. I'm thinking that someone, like myself, (of course) ought to do him a great favor and break that engine in for him,..you know, taking it out on those nice long high rpm burnouts and such...lol. I should be tasked with such a tough responsibility. ;)

Don

you had your chance Don to take it out and Do burnouts.... i asked you to take it out and drive it when you had it last....should have taken advantage of it...LOL

you are starting to get....a LITTLE old don...you sure you still have the reflexs to shift my 4-spd down the track????:D:D:D I may have to have Jake blow the dust off.... over by Toms....

[want-a-be]

Thanks jake, i appresheate the support... If people feel that the post has turned into a waste of peoples time...i didn't mean it to be that way...i saw that there are a few guys interested in my progress...and like jake said...we get to know each other pretty well over the YEARS... i learn alot from here... I like to see both sides and tryed to post rather then PM to solve problems... you can agree to dissagree here...

I agree this isn't face book and will in the future try to limit the time my posts are taking up...

I am just a street/Strip guy that does this for fun... i will just PM people and that should solve my part of the problem....

Motor is done , flywheel is on clutch is on just need to slap the tranny on...will fire it up tomorrow...I'll send out some PM's and let some of you guys know how it ran...

again thanks for the patients.....I will look for a new speed shop to go shoot the sh!&* at....lol

Hey,...people post here because they want to post. Some learn, some dispute ideas. We all have the potential to learn from differences of opinions. I wouldn't be sorry for creating such a long thread at all. It's generating traffic, and I'm betting that The boys at Dart Heads aren't minding that at all. Especially if there is some positive, forward movement of ideas.

I think you did good by creating this thread. Like Jake has said. Alot of us have have talked on the phone to exchange ideas. I'd like to think we've created some pretty good friendships, as best you can from a distance anyways.

Don

[want-a-be]

you had your chance Don to take it out and Do burnouts.... i asked you to take it out and drive it when you had it last....should have taken advantage of it...LOL

you are starting to get....a LITTLE old don...you sure you still have the reflexs to shift my 4-spd down the track????:D:D:D I may have to have Jake blow the dust off.... over by Toms....

LOL Jeff, Ask the last guy who asked me to show him how to race a straight shift car. He had no clue that his car could be driven like that. I was taught by some very old school racers and it's something that I'll not let get rusty. ;)

Don

[Bad Influence Racing]

:eek: Whoa guys ...I kinda get the feeling you thought I was refferring to the fact that you were just networking with each other about his progress and socializing as friends do...That was NOT what I was talking about lolol. Far from it....Now I feel like a dick! :mad:
What I was actually talking about was the bickering and talking about the vacuum secondary to mechanical secondary carb debate!! lolol Not the socializing..Who the hell am I to tell you guys to stop socializing and keep it to a Q/A type thing on a public forum..?? Noooooooooooo lol. Just the debates that don't help anyone. Knowing what I meant, and if you reread my post, does it make anymore sense now? I hope so..ugh Sorry if it came out wrong.:o

[lun40119]

Gotcha Kris.........thanks for clearing it up. I am still going to put my wifeys 600vac, on Frankie, to see how it fairs against my 1050.......:D

[want-a-be]

Far from it....Now I feel like a dick!
Knowing what I meant, and if you reread my post, does it make anymore sense now? I hope so..ugh Sorry if it came out wrong.

Naahh Kris,....don't worry about it. We knew where you were coming from. Besides...we all agree with you,....you are a dick....lol :p;):p

Kidding ya of course. lol

Don

[lun40119]

LOL

[3V Performance]

Gotcha Kris.........thanks for clearing it up. I am still going to put my wifeys 600vac, on Frankie, to see how it fairs against my 1050.......:D

Frankie will not be pulled down to 2000 rpm so don't expect to see much. 400ci and a 5000 stall converter, why go there. It's built to run to 8000 not 2000. Thats for tow trucks.:eek:

[lun40119]

I just want to see what kind of vacuum old Frankie can make at 8200 with that 600. It is going to be pulling fuel out of every orifice it can fine......:D

[Trmnatr]

I just want to see what kind of vacuum old Frankie can make at 8200 with that 600. It is going to be pulling fuel out of every orifice it can fine......:D

LOL

[lun40119]

Jeff..................beating the daylights out of that thing yet???

[snakeeater1968]

Jeff..................beating the daylights out of that thing yet???

I fired it up today, gave it a little gas and it zooomed to life, it realy behaves well good smooth idle...and when i give it some gas the whole car rocks... cam isn't choppy at all... it sounds good...sooo good that the police came by my house...so i know it made an imprssion on the neighbors.....LOL...it's not really a party unless the cops have been there twice right.....:D:D:D

[BERT]

No doubt:cool:

[Awesome Bill]

I just want to see what kind of vacuum old Frankie can make at 8200 with that 600. It is going to be pulling fuel out of every orifice it can fine......:D

Actually Jake, that is a huge misconception the fuel is pulled threw a carb, everyone thinks this but is not true! You might want to take a carb class and really find out how they work! Most people have no idea how a carb works let alone what emulsion bleeds do, what size shape and design a carb has and how it affects the signal etc. Most people don't even know what points and condensors do so its not a big deal. But, people who think they know what carbs do and don't are dangerous!

[lun40119]

Sorry for posting MR AWESOME....................................Next time I am going to post, I will submit the proper forms to see if you approve of my jokes or not.

[Awesome Bill]

Sorry for posting MR AWESOME....................................Next time I am going to post, I will submit the proper forms to see if you approve of my jokes or not.

Just thought you would get a little knowledge out of it and did not mean anything buy it. You do want to learn don't you? If not just keep posting what you think you know and only take advice from people who don't challenge and make you think. Do you actually know how a carb works or just think fuel gets sucked threw like a Pepsi drink you wife sucks threw a straw when she is thirsty! Either way I don't really care, just thought you would like to know! Ease up a little hear! Don't want Nate popping up! lol

[lun40119]

Bill, I understand very clearly how a carb works. That was the easiest way to put it in type, without writing a book, while making a joke. I do appreciate you clearing up your post.................it seemed pretty clear to me that you were just trying to be condecending.

You really don't bother me as much as you think. Remember this is the internet. I do this for fun ;)

[Awesome Bill]

Bill, I understand very clearly how a carb works. That was the easiest way to put it in type, without writing a book, while making a joke. I do appreciate you clearing up your post.................it seemed pretty clear to me that you were just trying to be condecending.

You really don't bother me as much as you think. Remember this is the internet. I do this for fun ;)

yeah I know, keep it cool! I am good. Just wish the racing season would of gotten off to a better start!

[lun40119]

Well, locally we have had 4 events, and 2 have been rained out. Now The Grove is open pretty much everynight, but then I need to load up the trailer, and drive 2.5 hours there, and back. Gets to be a pain in the rear. The local track, I can just drive down, race all night, and then drive home. Stop for a root beer float on the way home. :D

[3V Performance]

If fuel does not get sucked through by low depression on bottom and high on top then how does it move through the carb? Put a smaller carb on and create higher depression under carb and watch vacuum increase and fuel flow also. Care to explain your theory.

[Awesome Bill]

Well, locally we have had 4 events, and 2 have been rained out. Now The Grove is open pretty much everynight, but then I need to load up the trailer, and drive 2.5 hours there, and back. Gets to be a pain in the rear. The local track, I can just drive down, race all night, and then drive home. Stop for a root beer float on the way home. :D

Well our 8.50 Cecil County Street Shoot out is 2.0hrs both ways, so once a month is cool with me. We run a local bad 8 shootout but the first one we missed due to electrical problems I had to get out. We tested Wed night test and tune and fixed that. So I know what you mean about the travel. My rig at best gets 7 miles to a gallon and I spend 50.00 in tolls, 100.00 entry fee, 100.00 in fuel and nitrous so every time I go I spend nearly $700.00 if I don't break anything. Either way, I am still going to keep doing it.

I now sponsor the 7.50 class with Awesome Engines so I have to show up. The idea is to win it with our other 7.50 car. Had some driver and technical issues and have them ironed out also. Hopefully the first Saturday in June, we will be on kill. Last race I had to give it back after no traction @ 150 on the big end. Don't want to wreck my car for a round win. Its not worth it. I run it as far as I could and dumped it and got nipped .0038 @ the finish line. I have won with less that that so getting beat buy it is just part of the game. Be cool and will let you know how we make out at the shoot out. I am just getting practice for the Shakedown this fall!

[lun40119]

Yeah, I heard about the Shakedown last year. Im sure you'll do well this year. That 8.50 class is pretty tight, at least what I saw in FSC mag.

[Awesome Bill]

Yeah, I heard about the Shakedown last year. Im sure you'll do well this year. That 8.50 class is pretty tight, at least what I saw in FSC mag.

I missed the first qualifying because 3 days before I had a perfect set up for a 8.53 to 8.55 flat out. So what did I do first pass, shot it right threw instead of lifting @ the 1000 ft and killing 5-10 and qualifying. I ran a 8.44 or 8.42. Not in the show. The 60ft @ the shakedown was a killer 1.26 better than our track which was 1.30. that is .040 better which would yield me .080 better from my 8.53 which would put me right @ 8.45, I run a 8.44. When the 60 is good, you can bet you will run twice as quick on the top end as the 60 was. It is pretty cool but true.

So our second pass should of been around 6.30 to 7.00. I pulled 25 hp out and put in 25lbs set up for a 8.55. AFter everyone running into walls, the sand traps, blowing up, tearing up, we got to run around 8.15 p.m. and I was frost bite. I set in the car for almost 2 hours. The track got cold and my car did not hook and I run a measly 8.79 spinning all the way down being out of control. They then said we would not get our 3rd pass. We only get a 3rd shot if everyone and everything goes well.

I asked Dave Hance if the champ got a provisional, he said great idea but for next year we might have it. That sucked and I did not get in. Our 7.50 car we run qualified for the ADRL 1/8 miles challenge with all the blower cars and we were 7th. Either way you can see the pass on youtube if you type in malec shakedown, it comes up. We lost first round to an amazing 3.93 and from that point on, no one got down the track and we had to get past 1st round. Chris gave it a good safe run and got beat. Either way, this year we will be on game!

[Trmnatr]

Well, locally we have had 4 events, and 2 have been rained out. Now The Grove is open pretty much everynight, but then I need to load up the trailer, and drive 2.5 hours there, and back. Gets to be a pain in the rear. The local track, I can just drive down, race all night, and then drive home. Stop for a root beer float on the way home. :D

Capitol SUCKED Friday night very bad

We tested our old carburetor that was ~.25 to .3 slower than the one I built, Thought we have a looser converter and more compression and more RPM maybe it will work fair. WRONG !!!!

We went .25 slower than what it "should" have ran so we put old reliable back on her and all other cars were spinning due to what I assume was too much VHT on too cool of a race track.

We ran our mouth saying WE DIDNT SPIN, go up for second hit and went .1 faster but spun hard. Went up again, same thing.

Decided we would get one more pass in, HOLY $HIT, almost lost the car. He was feet away from the centerline and car. It spun at the release of the t-brake and started wheel hopping after it went in too spin and got way out of the groove

Loaded the POS up and went home. Even the POS Honda's were not hooking at all

We go up Saturday, the wind gusts were so bad they pulled 1/4 mile racing because the sane & gravel pit at the end of the track was blowing sand all over the track :(

We spun first hit, so we dropped the RPM from 5,400rpm to 4,200rpm and loosened the front end and shocks up some (as we run them tight for ET) and by that time the sand was so dangerous they called it an 1/8 mile race

It hates lower RPM launchs, but we were still high 6.50's before they called the race

This Friday, assuming the track will be better (I have never in my life seen it that bad like it was Friday), we will bolt the Pro Systems XE1100 on it and see if it likes

We are thinking of putting a different engine in may 21st :D One that has been waiting to run.

I will be sure to e-mail you some video Jake. You want me to name it Frankie Jr. ;)

[lun40119]

I'll be waiting :D

[Awesome Bill]

you guys are supposed to run on black top not a dirt road! change the tires over to the dirt ones, maybe you'll do better!

[snakeeater1968]

i posted some new pic's....trying to figure out why the electric fan won't come on now before i can take it out and flogg it....also...it is dripping fuel from the front passenger side anular booster....is that normal??? i have the fuel pressure set realy conservative and that didn't seam to help....it's only dripping from the passenger side and doesn't do it all the time... i have a 180 thermo in it.... and the electric fan has a silinoid that kicks it on at 190 and off at 180... does that sound about right...i hooked up the charger to the fan to kick on the electric fans so i could hear it run for a bit without worrying about it over heating... if it can go wrong it has....i want to take some video feed and post it here...i will have to figure out this fan thing first...and work is about to finaly slow up some and give me some time to work on the DAMN thing.... seams like all I ever do is fix everyone elses stuff and can't find time for my own...i know alot of you guys have the same thing going so you feel my pain....lol

O-yea- jake... dads coming down for Memorial day week end to race with me...we are thinking about going to rockingham... but the last time we went there we had a hard time hooking up the bird and was stuck running 6.70's in the 1/8 dad had it to our local track last sat and was running 6.40's @110 with a 60' time of 1.50 we know that is a horrible 60' for that car but the think won't hook well enuff to get lower...Tom do you know of any good tracks close... we need to get our NHRA licenses to realy run the bird now... we have already had the chasey certed just need to make the 5 passes...we are just running the 1/8 don't want to get kicked off when we run the 1/4... we have already bought the diaper for the oil pan but it fits so tight we don't realy want to run it....do you cut up the diaper to let the air get in and cool the motor???

are you going to be down anytime around then at Tom's???

[3V Performance]

i posted some new pic's....trying to figure out why the electric fan won't come on now before i can take it out and flogg it....also...it is dripping fuel from the front passenger side anular booster....is that normal??? i have the fuel pressure set realy conservative and that didn't seam to help....it's only dripping from the passenger side and doesn't do it all the time... i have a 180 thermo in it.... and the electric fan has a silinoid that kicks it on at 190 and off at 180... does that sound about right...i hooked up the charger to the fan to kick on the electric fans so i could hear it run for a bit without worrying about it over heating... if it can go wrong it has....i want to take some video feed and post it here...i will have to figure out this fan thing first...and work is about to finaly slow up some and give me some time to work on the DAMN thing.... seams like all I ever do is fix everyone elses stuff and can't find time for my own...i know alot of you guys have the same thing going so you feel my pain....lol

O-yea- jake... dads coming down for Memorial day week end to race with me...we are thinking about going to rockingham... but the last time we went there we had a hard time hooking up the bird and was stuck running 6.70's in the 1/8 dad had it to our local track last sat and was running 6.40's @110 with a 60' time of 1.50 we know that is a horrible 60' for that car but the think won't hook well enuff to get lower...Tom do you know of any good tracks close... we need to get our NHRA licenses to realy run the bird now... we have already had the chasey certed just need to make the 5 passes...we are just running the 1/8 don't want to get kicked off when we run the 1/4... we have already bought the diaper for the oil pan but it fits so tight we don't realy want to run it....do you cut up the diaper to let the air get in and cool the motor???

are you going to be down anytime around then at Tom's???

Z-Max is 25min away other then that we have Bristol ( about 1.5hr ) or Rockingham. There are a ton of 1/8 mile stuff to close by.

[lun40119]

Jeff..........Just got off the phone with the mad scientist, and the ring pack is settled, so now they can move on with the pistons. He figured 2 wks on the pistons. Should be pretty smooth, with a short wait on rockers, and the cam, once Tom decides on what lobe will fit, and that decides what arm we use.

I told him that I will now call him everymorning, and every evening, so I can get a update on what he did for the day LOL. Kidding aside, all is going well, these things take time. I am hoping that I should be down there first or second week, in June.

Oh yeah, he took the new headers(Lemons) to Calico for coating today, so those should look pretty nice. And I am still trying to beat him up on valve covers........(Ill let you know how that goes). I had him send the Chevrolet covers back for my wifeys 383. So now he has to come up with something. Ill keep you in the loop.

[lun40119]

Z-Max is 25min away other then that we have Bristol ( about 1.5hr ) or Rockingham. There are a ton of 1/8 mile stuff to close by.

Bristol is an awesome track.............................Absolutely beautiful.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/DSC_0519.jpg

PS..........Wifey is home now, maybe I can get some dinner :D

[lun40119]

Here is a little teaser for you Jeff.........
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/2010%20Dart-3V%20Performance%20Build/DSCF0236.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/2010%20Dart-3V%20Performance%20Build/DSCF0234.jpg

[snakeeater1968]

Bristol is an awesome track.............................Absolutely beautiful.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/DSC_0519.jpg

PS..........Wifey is home now, maybe I can get some dinner :D

I will be at one of the tracks I will let you guys know where we plan on racing at.... dad is all about the 1/8 mile but i still enjoy the 1/4 mile stuff... glad to hear that you are making forward progress...while you had the motor apart...did you decide to keep the same stroke or increase it a bit.... the pic's at bristol look great...and how long is there decelleration lane there...i know dad was a little worried at rockingham about them not having a realy long decel lane.... on another note... he decided to put the tubes back in the slicks... brand new slicks and rim screws and the tires had to be aired up every couple of passes and he was worrying alot when he let off the gas if the car was going to wonder all over the track... he's running 12lbs of air in the tires and says it's not worth it being freaked out every pass about if the tires are going flat or not....he has taken them back multipule times to have them sealed up and they have to have more air every couple of passes and if the car sets on the trailer and is rached down they go flat if it's left over night which makes it hard to hit multiple tracks.... yes we have generators and aircompressors in the race trailer but...when we make back to back to back passes.... how is everyone elses tires??? we are chopping our way down the 6's to hopefully get into the high 5's this year but we don't want to loose the car to get there...as you can see from the pic's we just had the bird painted... jake i may or maynot be here when you get here....i'm trying to swing it though...if only for a day i would love to have a little time to meet... i missed Don when i picked up my car from there shop... if not we are on when i get back.... we will have to line the cars up and race for a case of beer.... sound like a plan...

[snakeeater1968]

Z-Max is 25min away other then that we have Bristol ( about 1.5hr ) or Rockingham. There are a ton of 1/8 mile stuff to close by.

do you think you could make it to rockingham Tom??? we have narrowed the racing down to Memorial day week end... Just need to finalize a track...i will look into the Z-max and Bristol... just needs to have a good deceleration lane... if we do 1/4 mile stuff we are mid 9's over 140+ mph with a 3550 street car that has disc all the way around but doesn't like to stop that well.... I figure it's a realy long drive for Bill to come down and race.... any thoughts Tom on why i'm dripping fuel from the down leg booster??? or what i can do about it....i have gaskets and heat plates on it under the 1" phenolic spacer i know that the carb wasn't to hot...motor wasn even up to 160degrees yet...hmmm

[Trmnatr]

My brain is not working right now but a quick question, is the throttle blade open too far exposing too much of the transfer slot???

[lun40119]

Jeff, they stop top fuel cars at Bristol...........;)

[lun40119]

Oh and no, no more stroke................................

[3V Performance]

Here is a little teaser for you Jeff.........
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/2010%20Dart-3V%20Performance%20Build/DSCF0236.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/2010%20Dart-3V%20Performance%20Build/DSCF0234.jpg

That new blueberry hone does a nice job. :p

[snakeeater1968]

Jeff, they stop top fuel cars at Bristol.........

i know that they can stop a top fuel car,.... Top Fuel cars weigh in at 2250 pounds in race-ready trim and have millions of dollars invested in them along with an R&D department ....our ride is aloooot more modest and still street legal our R&D department is on our back porch with a few friends over mulling things over while consuming a few cold ones.... now granted they run alotttt faster then we would ever dream of butttt..:D for some reason when we let off the gas after the run if we don't let off realy easy the car tends to get realy squirley....with only 10-12lbs of air.... it scares the piss out of us when we have to crame on the brakes as we don't run any laundry out the back we are running sway bars and slide a links and adjustable shocks.... i know i sound realy silly...:o:o i like everone else hate going down the track and looking at the wall in front of me it has us both a bit gun shy....... if your down we will take you a ride... till you get your chunky radio flyer up and running again... we ran at rockingham and it was a bit tight getting stopped is what i'm getting at.... i'm sure it will be fine but we do look into the decell laines alot on where we go....:)and it's never a problem if we stick to 1/8 mile stuff...

[snakeeater1968]

My brain is not working right now but a quick question, is the throttle blade open too far exposing too much of the transfer slot???

i'll take a pic and maybe some video today of it...but the gas dripping down didn't seam right....i am very carefull with the car...measure 2wice and cut once right...

[lun40119]

My car actually handles pretty nice. Adjustable rear suspension, with tube fronts, and double adjustable shocks on all four corners. Big bars too. No problems with this thing handling.

Odds are at Bristol, you will have to get back on the gas to get to the end of the track. From what I remember, there isn't a short turnoff. You have to go to the end. And it is long......................

[lun40119]

Tom, I thought you used sandpaper and an old beer can ;)

[lun40119]

Jeff, he did take it out to 4.130 bore, so now it is just shy of 402inches :D :D :D

[lun40119]

My brain is not working right now but a quick question, is the throttle blade open too far exposing too much of the transfer slot???

Butch, I think that carb has been modified. It started as a 3310 from Bill, but I think there was mention of some parts swapping. Who knows what is on there now.

Jeff, how high was it idling when it had the drips............

[lun40119]

Even if it were the transfer slot, that runs the lowspeed circuit. The boosters would require some airspeed. I am thinking float too high, or some kind of leak.

[want-a-be]

X2 on the floats Jeff. Give me a call if you think you would rather talk about it.

Don

[snakeeater1968]

X2 on the floats Jeff. Give me a call if you think you would rather talk about it.

Don

i called BIll he 2 thought that it was the floats to high but....i took the sight plug out and the floats are right on...i nudge the car a little bit and fuel will trickle out...just like they are suppose to be...and only on the front passenger side...and it's realy bad right at start up...then i rev it up a little and it goes away then comes back a little later... and sometimes goes for a while without coming back....i can pull the sight plug out and it still does it...i fixed the fan and just have the rag joint left but thats supper quick to fix...then i can take it on the road but it gets cranky when the gas starts to pour in from the carb.... so i'm a little afraid to take if far yet...just been running it for a bit in the drive way...

fuel psi is @ 6 lbs

any thoughts on this one...I almost called you tonight Don....but it was late....

[snakeeater1968]

Butch, I think that carb has been modified. It started as a 3310 from Bill, but I think there was mention of some parts swapping. Who knows what is on there now.

Jeff, how high was it idling when it had the drips............

it does it at 1,200 or 900 or what ever RPM and it started out as a 3310...I did most of the mods on the carb...Bill did a once over where i missed a screw or 2 but i already with dad had really worked it over...took the choke tower off it has down leg boosters in it now did some clean up on it...but..it looks like it's been through hell i bought it back in 1997 for 150.00 then put a second metering block upgrade in it then the vac springs quick change kit on it....i have this new shinny motor with this old WAR BIRD carb setting on top...but like Bill says...why knock it if it does what you want it to do which is make that heavey street car run.... i see the point...

kinda reminds of a story about fat girls and mo peds...lol

[Trmnatr]

Try turning the idle screw down just to see what it does, i know it will idle better but you can pull fuel from a booster at idle, I have seen it two times only

Set the transfer slot at .020" or a perfect square

It can also be a sticking needle & seat, try putting just a hint of WD-40 on the needle & seat to insure it doesnt stick

You can also have a vacuum leak across two circuits such as the metering block gasket having a cross leak or warped metering block etc etc

[lun40119]

it does it at 1,200 or 900 or what ever RPM and it started out as a 3310...I did most of the mods on the carb...Bill did a once over where i missed a screw or 2 but i already with dad had really worked it over...took the choke tower off it has down leg boosters in it now did some clean up on it...but..it looks like it's been through hell i bought it back in 1997 for 150.00 then put a second metering block upgrade in it then the vac springs quick change kit on it....i have this new shinny motor with this old WAR BIRD carb setting on top...but like Bill says...why knock it if it does what you want it to do which is make that heavey street car run.... i see the point...

kinda reminds of a story about fat girls and mo peds...lol

Cruise over by Tom, and ask him if you can borrow my 1050....;)

[underdog]

I had a defective needle and seat do the same thing, or close to it. Can you swap out the primary and secondary side to see if the trouble follows ?

I also had one of those 1 " pressure gauges run me nuts for a while till I found out I had more pressure than it was showing. It's somewhere in the woods behind the garage now !

[snakeeater1968]

Cruise over by Tom, and ask him if you can borrow my 1050....;)

I took the car out for a test drive today....that was an adventure.... when i'm driving normal and got to WOT it is realy slow to pick up speed then once it gets momentum it starts to pull and races to 6,200 rpm...i was driving at 2,500 and went to WOT and started going through the gears... before it would light the tires up in every gear...now it boggs in 4th gear and fell on its face going into 4th gear at 6,500...at 6,200 going into fourth it's fine...it never realy feels like i'm getting all of it...not 585hp worth...it bucks and jerks when i hold a steady 2,500 rpms when i accelerate is when is smooths out and pulls but not as hard as it should... holding 2,500 i hear a pop pop pop pop pop pop that goes away once i go to a hard acceleration... the motor realy flys threw the RPMS once it gets going...the transitions to get there are killing me.... car worked great...clutch is great brakes are good...i just emptyed the tank before i set out to take a drive...filled it with 93 oct gas.... there are alot of bugs in the carb... if i would have had the old 700hp carb i would have thrown it on there or the 830, it needs a new base plate or i would have thrown that on there.. i turned the fuel pressure down to where the gage read 3 PSI and i threw a new filter on it...that may be why it fell on it's face at 6,500 but i tried everything to get it to stop leaking out the booster i try tapping on the needle and seat but the fuel level is right on... also...its running hot...205 all the time and i have a great radiator on it with dual fans.... i'm about to park it and just throw a cover on it and try it when i get back... or wait till dad comes but i'm out of money and about out of time

i don't trust it to run to Toms yet Jake....but thanks....:D

[snakeeater1968]

Try turning the idle screw down just to see what it does, i know it will idle better but you can pull fuel from a booster at idle, I have seen it two times only

Set the transfer slot at .020" or a perfect square

It can also be a sticking needle & seat, try putting just a hint of WD-40 on the needle & seat to insure it doesnt stick

You can also have a vacuum leak across two circuits such as the metering block gasket having a cross leak or warped metering block etc etc

all vacum nipples are in place and it doesn't want to idle under 1,100 and when the fuel startes to drip it drives the idle up and down like a roller coaster... but when i'm hard on the throttle it pulls smooth... so if i can get it to stop dipping fuel i'll be good to hook... motor has alot more to give if i can tune it to it's potenchal...

ok how can i set the transfer slot to .020?? or a pefect square??? i've had needle and seats stick before but this seamed like it was the fuel bowles to full but when i check them they are right on... when i get on it hard it realy goes threw the "R'S" fast and realy smooth...

[snakeeater1968]

Cruise over by Tom, and ask him if you can borrow my 1050....;)

we switched the twin 1050's on the bird over to a sigle 1200 dominator... so dad has two setting on the shelf....but i still have the 830.... i know i would be loosing HP but if it runns like it ran on the much smaller 350 that would be fine... i hate the poping sound and jerking.... at least i'm logging some miles on it... and i may get the buggs worked out of this 750 vs... if not i'll park it till dad gets here to help me sort it out..

[lun40119]

If it is surging and popping down low steady state like that the idle circuit could be very lean, and that would be part of your stumble with the tip in. Unless you can start changing bleeds, (which you can't) the bandaids would be adjusting the idle mixture screws out, or jetting up. It is hard to tell when that thing gets up on the main circuit, over the inet, but it sounds like to me, it is caught in the transition and doesn't know what to do. Only make one change at a time, and make sure you document what you do. Idealy, a wideband would be the best, but you don't need it. The engine will tell you what it wants.

As far as you not thinking it is living up to its potential, your ass dyno isn't good enough. Once you get the bugs worked out, take it to the track. It won't lie. Biggest thing with a sbc, is that in the lower rpms, they are just inferior to bbc's. Anything under 6000 really doesn't perform like the dyno says. At least this is what I have seen. Lets say you make 550lbs of tq, but is is down low, and it is done by 6000. What do you think your tq curve looks like....................I bet it looks like a mountain. That is no good. A broad flat tq curve is the way to go. Take my buddies 2.0ltr 4G63. That thing doesnt make alot of tq, but it maintains it from 5800-8500rpms. Of course it has a big turbo, but i am just trying to make a point.

That is why I try to build my junk to spin. If I make peak tq, at 5500 but have the ability(heads/intake tract) to maintain it, who's car will out accelerate who's. Why do you think all the 502 crate engines get there buts spanked by little mousy's all the time.

Eitherway, I wouldn't get to excited until you get it to the track. Numbers don't lie. :)

[snakeeater1968]

If it is surging and popping down low steady state like that the idle circuit could be very lean, and that would be part of your stumble with the tip in. Unless you can start changing bleeds, (which you can't) the bandaids would be adjusting the idle mixture screws out, or jetting up. It is hard to tell when that thing gets up on the main circuit, over the inet, but it sounds like to me, it is caught in the transition and doesn't know what to do. Only make one change at a time, and make sure you document what you do. Idealy, a wideband would be the best, but you don't need it. The engine will tell you what it wants.

As far as you not thinking it is living up to its potential, your ass dyno isn't good enough. Once you get the bugs worked out, take it to the track. It won't lie. Biggest thing with a sbc, is that in the lower rpms, they are just inferior to bbc's. Anything under 6000 really doesn't perform like the dyno says. At least this is what I have seen. Lets say you make 550lbs of tq, but is is down low, and it is done by 6000. What do you think your tq curve looks like....................I bet it looks like a mountain. That is no good. A broad flat tq curve is the way to go. Take my buddies 2.0ltr 4G63. That thing doesnt make alot of tq, but it maintains it from 5800-8500rpms. Of course it has a big turbo, but i am just trying to make a point.

That is why I try to build my junk to spin. If I make peak tq, at 5500 but have the ability(heads/intake tract) to maintain it, who's car will out accelerate who's. Why do you think all the 502 crate engines get there buts spanked by little mousy's all the time.

Eitherway, I wouldn't get to excited until you get it to the track. Numbers don't lie. :)

I called Bill the other day he was more then willing to try and help me sort it out.... I know he was busy so i'm trying to sort it out...he suggested it was similar to what you are saying....and i have already turned my idle mixture screws out a 1/4 turn like he said...that was before i took it for a spin... I was realy frustated when i got back.... I know the potential is there with this motor.... it flys threw the R's.... i just need to work out the fuel issue.... I know that Bill builds a great motor... I'm not disapointed in the motor it's self just the carburator and how the carb is performing... As for where to build power... i have raced BBP for the past 16 years.... we have always dyno'd the motors and they have before always ran like a champ right off the bat.. not to say they were perfect but very close.... i am going to agree to disagree with the SBC being infirior to BBC down low... i can run with or beat alot of BBC set up for the street and not all out race motors and with similar HP numbers in the 1/8 but after that they can run by me....I used to crush the bird in the 1/8 with the Nova and he would always come back after the 1/8 and MPH me and beat me in the 1/4.... I read the thread with BIll and Tom talking about big and small motors with the same HP numbers.... I see both sides but i want to build a motor that makes all of it before 6,000 i like the flat TQ curves and i think that a SBC can run with most of the motors out there.... and BBC's hate to get beat by SBC's makes it all the more fun....LOL... as soon as i can i'll take it to the track...i agree numbers on the Dyno can be decieving..but numbers at the track never lie...there you either have it or you don't..... i've calmed down a bit now...i'll take another stab at it tomorrow and let you know how it goes...

thanks Jake

[want-a-be]

I'm sure this has been asked, but that's not going to stop me from asking again,... I guess.

What fuel pressure are you running? How are you measuring the pressure, if you are? Are you sure the gauge is correct, if running one? What fuel pump are you using? What are you regulating the fuel pressure with?

The float could have been damaged while shipping everything back to you I suppose.

I would have to suspect anything that is being ran between the frame rails that wasn't ran during the dyno session. Usually, the dyno cell has a dedicated fuel delivery system in it, or mine did anyway. Helps prove a faulty fuel system in the car every once in a while.

High floats or a piece of junk hung the needle and seat are my guess after the fuel pressure is confirmed.

What boosters are leaking again?

Don

[snakeeater1968]

I'm sure this has been asked, but that's not going to stop me from asking again,... I guess.

What fuel pressure are you running? How are you measuring the pressure, if you are? Are you sure the gauge is correct, if running one? What fuel pump are you using? What are you regulating the fuel pressure with?

The float could have been damaged while shipping everything back to you I suppose.

I would have to suspect anything that is being ran between the frame rails that wasn't ran during the dyno session. Usually, the dyno cell has a dedicated fuel delivery system in it, or mine did anyway. Helps prove a faulty fuel system in the car every once in a while.

High floats or a piece of junk hung the needle and seat are my guess after the fuel pressure is confirmed.

What boosters are leaking again?

Don

I'll call if thats cool or you can call me don...so we can get this thing sorted out...like last time....you were great the last time i called...we had it up and running in no time flat....let me know when a good time to call is....

thanks alot DON,

[65Pickup]

what did you decide to build??? yes bill was great to explain and take a lot of time over the phone to make sure things where right... and explain to me alot of how and why's.... making sure the combo was right for my app...and cars power level...

Sorry for missing your question, just spoke with Bill yesterday. Looks like we'll use a DART SHP short block, cast heads, to the tune of 427 ci. I'll know more soon.

[lun40119]

Part of what I don't understand about all of this jeff, is this thing was dyno tuned. And it ran great..............what has changed since then? I am not trying to say that Bill did a bad job, I am just pointing out what I see. It ran "so great" on the dyno, and now it is all over the place. Like it is terribly lean............... HMMMMMMMMMM

[Trmnatr]

I called Bill the other day he was more then willing to try and help me sort it out.... I know he was busy so i'm trying to sort it out...he suggested it was similar to what you are saying....and i have already turned my idle mixture screws out a 1/4 turn like he said...that was before i took it for a spin... I was realy frustated when i got back.... I know the potential is there with this motor.... it flys threw the R's.... i just need to work out the fuel issue.... I know that Bill builds a great motor... I'm not disapointed in the motor it's self just the carburator and how the carb is performing... As for where to build power... i have raced BBP for the past 16 years.... we have always dyno'd the motors and they have before always ran like a champ right off the bat.. not to say they were perfect but very close.... i am going to agree to disagree with the SBC being infirior to BBC down low... i can run with or beat alot of BBC set up for the street and not all out race motors and with similar HP numbers in the 1/8 but after that they can run by me....I used to crush the bird in the 1/8 with the Nova and he would always come back after the 1/8 and MPH me and beat me in the 1/4.... I read the thread with BIll and Tom talking about big and small motors with the same HP numbers.... I see both sides but i want to build a motor that makes all of it before 6,000 i like the flat TQ curves and i think that a SBC can run with most of the motors out there.... and BBC's hate to get beat by SBC's makes it all the more fun....LOL... as soon as i can i'll take it to the track...i agree numbers on the Dyno can be decieving..but numbers at the track never lie...there you either have it or you don't..... i've calmed down a bit now...i'll take another stab at it tomorrow and let you know how it goes...

thanks Jake

Didnt Bill dyno this engine with that carburetor? Or did Bill dyno it with a shop vac secondary carburetor?

Did you check for a cross leak in the metering block gasket? It will do this too. Just put a new one on it. I guess first see if the bolts are tight, but it could still have a cross leak

[Trmnatr]

Part of what I don't understand about all of this jeff, is this thing was dyno tuned. And it ran great..............what has changed since then? I am not trying to say that Bill did a bad job, I am just pointing out what I see. It ran "so great" on the dyno, and now it is all over the place. Like it is terribly lean............... HMMMMMMMMMM

I dont even have to post lol

You were reading my mind :p

Was it the carburetor Bill did dyno the engine with?

[lun40119]

I am not trying to be a jerk, or start anything, but literally when i take my junk off the dyno it is ready. Bolt it in, set the idle, and let the thrashing begin............Tom knows how I roll.........:cool: He will have it broke in and well whipped by the time he is done on the dyno. I could never load it like he can with the dyno. If my car excerates at 100rpm/sec, I have got some real problems. ;)

[Trmnatr]

Jake would be nice to do a 100rpm sweep and 600rpm sweep just to show what the difference can be ;)

[lun40119]

Ill talk to tom when we are down there, and see if he wants too. Not sure how the load control is on a Superflo. I have always dynoed on a Stuska.

[snakeeater1968]

I dont even have to post lol

You were reading my mind :p

Was it the carburetor Bill did dyno the engine with?

yes it's the same one.....

[snakeeater1968]

Sorry for missing your question, just spoke with Bill yesterday. Looks like we'll use a DART SHP short block, cast heads, to the tune of 427 ci. I'll know more soon.

i'm sure that you'll be very happy with it... i just need to figure out this carb thing...

[Trmnatr]

I would only do as Bill says

The carb should be right off the dyno and Bill said how well it pulled down low so I would do as he says

[snakeeater1968]

Part of what I don't understand about all of this jeff, is this thing was dyno tuned. And it ran great..............what has changed since then? I am not trying to say that Bill did a bad job, I am just pointing out what I see. It ran "so great" on the dyno, and now it is all over the place. Like it is terribly lean............... HMMMMMMMMMM

i'm thinking the same thing...like i said we have never had a prob with a motor after it's been dyno tunned this is motor number......yea I lost count..... I realy want to take some video of this so you can see what i'm talking about....I think it's running lean to it's running hot at 205 degrees... and our big block that ran 750 hp ran all day in the heat at 180 degrees same setup....we'll see how it works out... I may just need to walk away from it till i get back...buy a new carb... and start over... i thought all the bugs would have been gone..i have tried the fuel level at multiple pressures still does the same thing....

[snakeeater1968]

I would only do as Bill says

The carb should be right off the dyno and Bill said how well it pulled down low so I would do as he says

he told me to turn the idle mix screw a 1/4 turn out and that should help the idle and the floats were to high causing it to leak out the fuel bowle.... it won't even bark the tires at wot going into second gear....i have 4.10 gears and little bitty 235 65 R15 street tires on it now...i have a set of 255 waiting to go on...i was going to crush these tires on it's maden voyage out and then throw the new ones on it but no need to go bigger on the tires just yet....like i said before....1st gear with 4.10 wouldn't even bark the tires and it makes a like poping sound untill i go to WOT then it smooths out and races threw the R's.... the way it flys threw the r's i can tell it will be a bad a$$ motor once it's tunned in right....ive tried adjusting the fuel pressue everywhere....if i have to go get new parts it's going to have to sit till i get back...DAD is coming down soon... he is a wiz with carbs... all my wife says anymore is STOP spending money on that DAMN CAR!!! it still isn't running right give it a rest!! play with your kids your about to leave!!! I've slept on the couch so many times this week my neck will never b the same...lol...

[lun40119]

600Hp, and 275/50 street tires do this............your little skinnies should be rolling.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/th_P6092370.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/?action=view&current=P6092370.flv)

[want-a-be]

I'll call if thats cool or you can call me don...so we can get this thing sorted out...like last time....you were great the last time i called...we had it up and running in no time flat....let me know when a good time to call is....

thanks alot DON,

Call any time...

Don

[want-a-be]

I am not trying to be a jerk, or start anything, but literally when i take my junk off the dyno it is ready. Bolt it in, set the idle, and let the thrashing begin............Tom knows how I roll.........:cool: He will have it broke in and well whipped by the time he is done on the dyno. I could never load it like he can with the dyno. If my car excerates at 100rpm/sec, I have got some real problems. ;)

LOL Jake,...By the time he gets done thrashing that thing on the dyno ole' Frankie's tongue will be dragging the ground and needing new rings :eek:

Don

[snakeeater1968]

600Hp, and 275/50 street tires do this............your little skinnies should be rolling.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/th_P6092370.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/?action=view&current=P6092370.flv)

great video jake...i would have liked to have posted one of my own by now...wifey left the house when she saw i had bought more parts....she slammed the door and now I have all the kids so no working on it tonight...she may cool off and come home....:confused::confused::confused:

maybe.....

so close yet sooo far away...i'm red lining on this Damn car... it may just have to set or i'm going to get devorce papers while i'm gone...or she may sell the thing while i'm gone..... which would send me over the edge....

[lun40119]

You could send her here for a while.........she would no bat an eye when she gets back to NC. Ask someone who knows.................................How much does a titanium valve cost? That might change her mind :D

[lun40119]

LOL Jake,...By the time he gets done thrashing that thing on the dyno ole' Frankie's tongue will be dragging the ground and needing new rings :eek:

Don

Not sure Don.......................we are going to run .043 rings in this one, instead of the 1.5mm pack, but these pistons from CP will be lateral gas ported. Tom said he doesn't want to see it in pieces for a couple of years. It will be hard for me to not take it apart.

[want-a-be]

Not sure Don.......................we are going to run .043 rings in this one, instead of the 1.5mm pack, but these pistons from CP will be lateral gas ported. Tom said he doesn't want to see it in pieces for a couple of years. It will be hard for me to not take it apart.

LOL...wanting to keep all those trade secrets buttoned up for a few years. ;)

Don

[snakeeater1968]

You could send her here for a while.........she would no bat an eye when she gets back to NC. Ask someone who knows.................................How much does a titanium valve cost? That might change her mind

LOL im sure that she would have you watching our new born or helping potty train the middle one or going to the park with he oldest one...you would never see the car...:eek::eek::eek: and no time to be buying parts.....or on the dart board.....she is unreal at finding other things to do that HAVE to get done right NOW... or my favorite..washing baby bottles and folding all the new born cloths we go threw...:rolleyes:

can anyone say....vaaaasecccctomy...

[lun40119]

No kids yet for us.............we do have the two kittens though..........Lunati and Bella. They are plenty for us.

[snakeeater1968]

No kids yet for us.............we do have the two kittens though..........Lunati and Bella. They are plenty for us.

I have a plan today to get things up and running she's out shopping i have my sister coming to baby sit....so the car is mine till this after noon...

Don called and we started going through all the possible problems...we reset the timing...it was at 40-41 degrees...now it is at 36 degrees...also reset the idle mix screws and today i'm going to reset the butterflys and see if i can't get them to close a bit more and i'm going to take apart te front bowle...se whats up with that damn needle and seat...motor is running cooler and smoother idle mixture screw is now at 1 and a 1/2 turns out...

[snakeeater1968]

No kids yet for us.............we do have the two kittens though..........Lunati and Bella. They are plenty for us.

LOL!!!!!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[lun40119]

I hope you get it figured out.

[snakeeater1968]

I hope you get it figured out.

If not by some chance...Dad will be here soon...he doesn't play all the house and baby games...he's bringing the race trailer so we have lotss of spare parts and carbs to make it happen.... he wants to race me with this new motor so bad....he calls me allllll the time..."you got that thing ready to race yet!!" i did change the oil over to VR1 20x50 thats fun...watching almost 8 quarts drain out then filling it....I used to run royal purple all the time...but i know you like the VR1 and so does Bill... i'm going to dump it WHEN i get done running this tank of gas out and put in new....i'm running a napa gold filter...i may run a straight up wix filter the next hit.... i need to figure out this fuel thing...and do one thing at a time...

[snakeeater1968]

I hope you get it figured out.

if not i'll call up holleys tec line they were awesome the last time i called....:)

[snakeeater1968]

I hope you get it figured out.

I'm charging up the camera jake....sink or swim time....

[lun40119]

The 1061 Napa Gold "IS" a Wix 51061. I run those on my truck, and my wife's imp. My chevelles gets the 51060R.

[lun40119]

I wish that I had that old 750 HP off the turd. I sold it to a guy locally. That thing really ran well, and I would be willing to bet, it would work well on your setup. Here it is next to the Pro Systems 950 from last year. Both are gone now. :(
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P3021484.jpg

[snakeeater1968]

I wish that I had that old 750 HP off the turd. I sold it to a guy locally. That thing really ran well, and I would be willing to bet, it would work well on your setup. Here it is next to the Pro Systems 950 from last year. Both are gone now. :(
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P3021484.jpg

i have the 830 out side i'm wondering if the needle and seat from that will work in the old 3310 750 carb that i have....so i don't have to pick up a new one... what do you think???

[snakeeater1968]

The 1061 Napa Gold "IS" a Wix 51061. I run those on my truck, and my wife's imp. My chevelles gets the 51060R.

what is the difference between the two...the 51061 and the 51060R???

[lun40119]

Case, and micron size..........and price.

[lun40119]

i have the 830 out side i'm wondering if the needle and seat from that will work in the old 3310 750 carb that i have....so i don't have to pick up a new one... what do you think???

Yes should work fine. I have about 10 assemblies out in the shop in my carb box. You could run over and Ill give you one :)

I am not sure if that is the problem now though, if it isn't coming out the sight plug, it should be coming out the booster, unless there is something else wrong. Have you tried turning the idle feed screws out alittle more.

I am almost wondering if you have a vac leak somewhere and that is causing the extremely lean condition. That carb should be really close if that thing was on Bill's dyno.

[snakeeater1968]

Yes should work fine. I have about 10 assemblies out in the shop in my carb box. You could run over and Ill give you one :)

I am not sure if that is the problem now though, if it isn't coming out the sight plug, it should be coming out the booster, unless there is something else wrong. Have you tried turning the idle feed screws out alittle more.

I am almost wondering if you have a vac leak somewhere and that is causing the extremely lean condition. That carb should be really close if that thing was on Bill's dyno.

I agree.... i can take some video of the site plug out and the booster still dripping it's likes it's being sucked out... I'd buy dinner for all of us if you were close enuff... my carb parts are on the way....jake when i'm driving and got to wot the car makes no attempt at all to jump and take off its like a delayed reaction i go to wot then the car figures out what i've done slowly starts to react then comits whole heartedly and then races through the r's... but i can't get it to jump when i give it gas it...thinks about it no bogg at all then goes...

AHHH!!!carb parts are here..time to bust some knuckles

[lun40119]

Put a bigger squirter on the acc pump. Prolly has a 31 on it now. But if you are cruising on the low speed circuit, and it is already lean, and then you go to wide open throttle, quickly from lean, and don't supplement with enough fuel from the PV/acc pump, it will fall on its nose, until the main circuit takes over.

[want-a-be]

Put a bigger squirter on the acc pump. Prolly has a 31 on it now. But if you are cruising on the low speed circuit, and it is already lean, and then you go to wide open throttle, quickly from lean, and don't supplement with enough fuel from the PV/acc pump, it will fall on its nose, until the main circuit takes over.

I'd be looking at the larger squirter also. Like it or not,...the squirter adds to the mix in the upper RPM also. It tends to siphon the fuel out of the bowl.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

do you think you could make it to rockingham Tom??? we have narrowed the racing down to Memorial day week end... Just need to finalize a track...i will look into the Z-max and Bristol... just needs to have a good deceleration lane... if we do 1/4 mile stuff we are mid 9's over 140+ mph with a 3550 street car that has disc all the way around but doesn't like to stop that well.... I figure it's a realy long drive for Bill to come down and race.... any thoughts Tom on why i'm dripping fuel from the down leg booster??? or what i can do about it....i have gaskets and heat plates on it under the 1" phenolic spacer i know that the carb wasn't to hot...motor wasn even up to 160degrees yet...hmmm

Take the needle and seat out an replace the oring, lube it with some lube, put it back in and readjust the level to the bottom of the fuel bowl, put the site plug back in and see if it drips. If it does not, go one flat further on the adjustment, pulling it upward ofcourse and check it then. If no drip, the old seat oring was the problem. Get that 180 stat out and the fan set to 155° and a 140° marine stat or just take it out and let the fan come on @ 140°. See what it does. Your letting the head get to 215-220°. You will have problems.

[lun40119]

May have a point on the carb deal, but I am not buying the 140 stat deal. That thing isn't that crazy, and shouldn't be making that kind of heat. I am running a dual 1inch core aluminum, with a single 15 puller. 160 stat, fan comes on at 200, and shuts off at 185. Never turns on at spead, engine cools right off.

Bill, any thoughts on why this thing is running so poorly now that it is in the car, but so well on your dyno. Im not trying to pick a fight, but this thing shouldn't be giving him any problems. Just bolt it in and let the thrashing begin.

[snakeeater1968]

Take the needle and seat out an replace the oring, lube it with some lube, put it back in and readjust the level to the bottom of the fuel bowl, put the site plug back in and see if it drips. If it does not, go one flat further on the adjustment, pulling it upward ofcourse and check it then. If no drip, the old seat oring was the problem. Get that 180 stat out and the fan set to 155° and a 140° marine stat or just take it out and let the fan come on @ 140°. See what it does. Your letting the head get to 215-220°. You will have problems.

I took the front of the carb apart on sat and gave it a good cleaning..i also reset the fuel pressure back to 7lbs....it doesn't drip at idle anymore it does pop when i hold it at 2,500 rpms and above...but....on the other side...when the motor has been running for at least 20min and warmed up it runs alottt better...

motor is realyyy pulling hard now... the motor ran at 190-200° all day long Sat... the way this motor runs through the rpm's is out of this world now...BUT it is to much for my little dual friction centerforce clutch...clutch chaters everytime i shift it hard into 3rd and 4th gear...so unless i shift it easy clutch chatters...and the set up is the same as i had before. i've reset the clutch 3 times making sure it's right...also when i'm running at 3,000 rpms and got to WOT it takes off like a bat out of hell then starts to get clutch chatter...after cleaning the bowles it's alot more responsive......idle is good now at 1,100 and doesn't start poping till 2,500 and up and thats only when you hold it at that RPM or above

I decided to load the boys up and go for a 2 hour drive last night...car ran good aside from the poping throught the ehaust and that got better after 20 min of driving ...they loved it...as for the poping throught the ehaust when i'm holding any rpm above 2,500 it pops...but when i get on the gas and start to accelerate it stops poping but realyyy starts runing smooth while i accelerate but when i'm just driving normal and try to go to wot at a lower rpm it takes a minuet to start accelerating then picks up and starts to rock

[snakeeater1968]

Take the needle and seat out an replace the oring, lube it with some lube, put it back in and readjust the level to the bottom of the fuel bowl, put the site plug back in and see if it drips. If it does not, go one flat further on the adjustment, pulling it upward ofcourse and check it then. If no drip, the old seat oring was the problem. Get that 180 stat out and the fan set to 155° and a 140° marine stat or just take it out and let the fan come on @ 140°. See what it does. Your letting the head get to 215-220°. You will have problems.

It runs cooler now from 190-200° but i want it to not go above 180° what do you think about running the 180° with 2 wholes 1/8" in it...or do you still think that i should just take the thermostat out??? Bill that thing is an animal once it cleans up and starts running threw the R's.... any sugestions about the poping i can look inside the carb and see it dripping fuel at 2,500 and above from the front boosters...but no more dripping at idle anymore... any sugestions about the clutch thing...and please don't say switch to an automatic...LOL!!!!

also the plugs are black...the ceramic is black...

[snakeeater1968]

May have a point on the carb deal, but I am not buying the 140 stat deal. That thing isn't that crazy, and shouldn't be making that kind of heat. I am running a dual 1inch core aluminum, with a single 15 puller. 160 stat, fan comes on at 200, and shuts off at 185. Never turns on at spead, engine cools right off.

Bill, any thoughts on why this thing is running so poorly now that it is in the car, but so well on your dyno. Im not trying to pick a fight, but this thing shouldn't be giving him any problems. Just bolt it in and let the thrashing begin.

Jake i ran a light on it and it was at 40 degrees when i got it...i reset it to 36 degrees and it is running cooler...190-200 are you thinking i should throw in a 160 stat and try that...do you have a whole drilled into your thermostat???

[snakeeater1968]

May have a point on the carb deal, but I am not buying the 140 stat deal. That thing isn't that crazy, and shouldn't be making that kind of heat. I am running a dual 1inch core aluminum, with a single 15 puller. 160 stat, fan comes on at 200, and shuts off at 185. Never turns on at spead, engine cools right off.

Bill, any thoughts on why this thing is running so poorly now that it is in the car, but so well on your dyno. Im not trying to pick a fight, but this thing shouldn't be giving him any problems. Just bolt it in and let the thrashing begin.

I did drive it to church today with the boys....maybe my car just needs jesus...i know i do...

[lun40119]

No I don't have the holes drilled in the stat. Seemed to run too cold in the late fall here. I am not sure what is making that thing run so warm. You guys had 40 degrees of timing on that thing? Seems awful high.

[BERT]

That does seem like alot of timing, On my 415 I've run from 30 to 36. Every motor is different though.

[Awesome Bill]

May have a point on the carb deal, but I am not buying the 140 stat deal. That thing isn't that crazy, and shouldn't be making that kind of heat. I am running a dual 1inch core aluminum, with a single 15 puller. 160 stat, fan comes on at 200, and shuts off at 185. Never turns on at spead, engine cools right off.

Bill, any thoughts on why this thing is running so poorly now that it is in the car, but so well on your dyno. Im not trying to pick a fight, but this thing shouldn't be giving him any problems. Just bolt it in and let the thrashing begin.

First of all, I am the expert and we have to give our well running engines to people who are not. And most of all, people who think they know are more dangerous and ask everyone for imformation and get nonsense. Granted, we run the engines in a controlled room, normal air from outside is pulled in, not pushed in and run a pressurized room that no one can get unless they are running 40+ mph down the road and have a forward mounted hood scoop and a sealed air path right to the carb. We dyno under real conditions and his engine was very very happy with the tune up.

My thoughts on why its running so badly is its not running so badly. First of all, the popping noise like we hear on some engines in a part throttle applicaiton is the idle and transfer slots getting the engine rich in that part throttle position. Its a little rich and will sound like its breaking up but matt it and see it pull to the moon. Second, his fuel system, we know nothing about and if the fuel was bleeding over meant either the o-ring was leaking by the needle and seat or the needle and seat had a small piece of trash in it.

Just because your engine done something means nothing. No engines like this one will even be close to yours. You have a double pumper mechanical secondary carb he has a vacuum secondary unit. His part throttle break up is normal for his carb and we had to jet it a lot richer to get the final AF and BSFC #'s decent for a good pulling torque monster engine.

Now look at the further post Jeff has posted. He has already smoked the clutch because he has to much torque, You know for yourself if the clutch is chattering now, under more power those hot spots will cause the clutch to fail and then the e.t. will now yield real power and we will have a discussion about that.

His 4 speed car will only make the engine look as good as he is and his parts are! No one builds an engine with this type of hodge podge parts I used here. I done this engine only to prove I could take a bunch of parts that were not CNC ported, Vacuum secondary carb that no one seems will work, flat tappet self aligning rockers, not high end parts @ all and make one killer street engine.

The only way to really see the actual power of his engine would be for him to get a TH350 with the proper converter, a set of slicks and run this girl. He has so much power now after correcting the fuel issue that he does not know how to act. His car is not ready for it.

The stat is a noooooooooobrainer and the 140° unit is what he needs along with the fan to come on @ 150°. this engine made the best power and 140° and does not need the extra heat. He can run it where he has it but the power is not there.

So when someone else puts up and engine for what I done this unit for and had to do it with and comes up with a real deal so everyone can judge, let them do it and then we will through all these silly suggestion to someone who knows about cars and engines but is clearly not a professional. Jeff and his dad are great people and 100% the best customers I have ever dealt with. But I think if he has a problem with my engine, he should be listening to me. I have everything to loose here with my pants down and nothing really to gain. I have been in these situations before and stupidity will kill the patient every time when Dick, Bob, George, Buddy, Chis, Dana all tell the customer what they think and then when something goes wrong, it ofcourse always is the engine builders fault.

Jeff, one thing to say here, don't make me look bad here with my decision to help you out and give you something you could of never gotten anywhere else! Listen to me and me only!

[lun40119]

I can respect that.............you are right, it is your engine. I wasn't trying to piss you off, and if I did, I didn't mean it that way.

[snakeeater1968]

First of all, I am the expert and we have to give our well running engines to people who are not. And most of all, people who think they know are more dangerous and ask everyone for imformation and get nonsense. Granted, we run the engines in a controlled room, normal air from outside is pulled in, not pushed in and run a pressurized room that no one can get unless they are running 40+ mph down the road and have a forward mounted hood scoop and a sealed air path right to the carb. We dyno under real conditions and his engine was very very happy with the tune up.

My thoughts on why its running so badly is its not running so badly. First of all, the popping noise like we hear on some engines in a part throttle applicaiton is the idle and transfer slots getting the engine rich in that part throttle position. Its a little rich and will sound like its breaking up but matt it and see it pull to the moon. Second, his fuel system, we know nothing about and if the fuel was bleeding over meant either the o-ring was leaking by the needle and seat or the needle and seat had a small piece of trash in it.

Just because your engine done something means nothing. No engines like this one will even be close to yours. You have a double pumper mechanical secondary carb he has a vacuum secondary unit. His part throttle break up is normal for his carb and we had to jet it a lot richer to get the final AF and BSFC #'s decent for a good pulling torque monster engine.

Now look at the further post Jeff has posted. He has already smoked the clutch because he has to much torque, You know for yourself if the clutch is chattering now, under more power those hot spots will cause the clutch to fail and then the e.t. will now yield real power and we will have a discussion about that.

His 4 speed car will only make the engine look as good as he is and his parts are! No one builds an engine with this type of hodge podge parts I used here. I done this engine only to prove I could take a bunch of parts that were not CNC ported, Vacuum secondary carb that no one seems will work, flat tappet self aligning rockers, not high end parts @ all and make one killer street engine.

The only way to really see the actual power of his engine would be for him to get a TH350 with the proper converter, a set of slicks and run this girl. He has so much power now after correcting the fuel issue that he does not know how to act. His car is not ready for it.

The stat is a noooooooooobrainer and the 140° unit is what he needs along with the fan to come on @ 150°. this engine made the best power and 140° and does not need the extra heat. He can run it where he has it but the power is not there.

So when someone else puts up and engine for what I done this unit for and had to do it with and comes up with a real deal so everyone can judge, let them do it and then we will through all these silly suggestion to someone who knows about cars and engines but is clearly not a professional. Jeff and his dad are great people and 100% the best customers I have ever dealt with. But I think if he has a problem with my engine, he should be listening to me. I have everything to loose here with my pants down and nothing really to gain. I have been in these situations before and stupidity will kill the patient every time when Dick, Bob, George, Buddy, Chis, Dana all tell the customer what they think and then when something goes wrong, it ofcourse always is the engine builders fault.

Jeff, one thing to say here, don't make me look bad here with my decision to help you out and give you something you could of never gotten anywhere else! Listen to me and me only!

I am not trying to show that I am not greatfull for the engine that I have... at this point that was my budget and I am greatfull that you took on my project...otherwise it would have been a long time to get a motor....secondly I am greatfull that I have a motor that runs so well...i'm not trying to make anyone look bad as I am just a guy that drives his car on the street that likes to understand how to turn his own wrenchs and everyone has to start somewhere and i looked at it as a possitive to let some others see MY silly mistakes and learn from them...jake told me along time ago to post what i did wrong so others won't make MY mistakes...thats what i'm trying to do...i'm not trying to make anyone look bad..just show MY silly mistakes some times becasue i know that alot of people set back and read the post and they are like me... a street guy....and i'm trying to try my luck on the track a bit....I'm sorry if my post apeared to be less then profesional and you thought that i was trying to make you look bad ...i'm not...i'm just trying to learn, i'm sorry if you felt it was at your expense...this won't be an issue as the car will set now till dad comes down...we pull the tranny and clutch and come up with a game plan...dad says that motor is crazyyy fast now not like the the stock type motors with good heads but a real all out race motor now.......but we need to come up with a plan to get it to not tear it's self apart... the motor is a wholey tear Bill...and the more it runs the better it runs...dad ran a similar set up as mine...650hp BBP with the same 4spd...but i did set up the traction bars like you said and the car realy is hooking hard...so hard the clutch can't keep up...I am looking into a dual disc....

like I said before...thank you for the time everyone has put into my posts... It's my weaker mec. skills that show me I need to learn alot more before I continue to post here....you all have been great I will continue to read and follow other posts... PM me if you want to see my meager progress with the hodge podge junkyard king motor...

I will let this thread die....didn't mean to piss you off...or sound like i was discrediting all the work that you've put into this.... i value everyones input right or wrong...but i see your point that you made...

[65Pickup]

Hey Jeff, I'm no mechanic, just a car lovin' street car guy. Your experiences with your car have been quite interesting. I've told you how I'm getting started- Awesome crate engine and trans (in an effort to lessen mechanical issues the first time out due to my inexperience), but sometimes things don't go smoothly. Your troubles have shown how there are many caring guys on this site, but I've noticed a lot of competition amongst the builders or accomplished car guys. That's why your story is refreshing, you've pulled these guys together to help you out. But there are occasional undertones that take jabs at people, this is unfortunate that anyone would take advantage of your situation to try to discredit someone else. So thanks for being human and giving us insight into your experience. I hope your over the engine issues and that new clutch holds your new power, time to punish the tires:D:cool: Mike

[lun40119]

It will be my turn next, Ive got a new bullet at 3V Performance right now. Nice little pump gas 402SBC. You know, something I can pick up groceries with..........:)

All will be welcome to help out with this little guy when it is done.

[BERT]

I can't wait, I'm excited with you!:D

[lun40119]

I can't wait, I'm excited with you!:D

They were designing the lobes yesterday, and deciding what arms to run on it.......all I know so far is that we are going to use chromoly T&D shafts, and the lift number is going to be just silly. And that he was doing some welding and grinding on the intake...............should be fun ;)

[BERT]

The T&Ds are real nice.
Have you done some things to your ride to prepare for the new power?

[lun40119]

Strange DA shocks, springs, new Coan XLT trans, new driveshaft...........bout it. Should be ready to rock. Car has all aftermarket control arms, and already had tube a-arms.

[lun40119]

The T&Ds are real nice.
Have you done some things to your ride to prepare for the new power?

Last year I had there aluminum stuff with the oilers.........this year we are going to run the steel stuff. You ever run that stuff. I have never seen one in person........

[BERT]

Strange DA shocks, springs, new Coan XLT trans, new driveshaft...........bout it. Should be ready to rock. Car has all aftermarket control arms, and already had tube a-arms.
Sounds good for the car, Should be awsome.

I've only seen the aluminum stuff,
When I do a freshen up on my junk, I want to add shaft rockers, either T&D or the pro Jesel stuff. That and a belt drive timing set.

[lun40119]

You will never go back :D

[Trmnatr]

First of all, I am the expert and we have to give our well running engines to people who are not. And most of all, people who think they know are more dangerous and ask everyone for imformation and get nonsense. Granted, we run the engines in a controlled room, normal air from outside is pulled in, not pushed in and run a pressurized room that no one can get unless they are running 40+ mph down the road and have a forward mounted hood scoop and a sealed air path right to the carb. We dyno under real conditions and his engine was very very happy with the tune up.

My thoughts on why its running so badly is its not running so badly. First of all, the popping noise like we hear on some engines in a part throttle applicaiton is the idle and transfer slots getting the engine rich in that part throttle position. Its a little rich and will sound like its breaking up but matt it and see it pull to the moon. Second, his fuel system, we know nothing about and if the fuel was bleeding over meant either the o-ring was leaking by the needle and seat or the needle and seat had a small piece of trash in it.

Just because your engine done something means nothing. No engines like this one will even be close to yours. You have a double pumper mechanical secondary carb he has a vacuum secondary unit. His part throttle break up is normal for his carb and we had to jet it a lot richer to get the final AF and BSFC #'s decent for a good pulling torque monster engine.

Now look at the further post Jeff has posted. He has already smoked the clutch because he has to much torque, You know for yourself if the clutch is chattering now, under more power those hot spots will cause the clutch to fail and then the e.t. will now yield real power and we will have a discussion about that.

His 4 speed car will only make the engine look as good as he is and his parts are! No one builds an engine with this type of hodge podge parts I used here. I done this engine only to prove I could take a bunch of parts that were not CNC ported, Vacuum secondary carb that no one seems will work, flat tappet self aligning rockers, not high end parts @ all and make one killer street engine.

The only way to really see the actual power of his engine would be for him to get a TH350 with the proper converter, a set of slicks and run this girl. He has so much power now after correcting the fuel issue that he does not know how to act. His car is not ready for it.

The stat is a noooooooooobrainer and the 140° unit is what he needs along with the fan to come on @ 150°. this engine made the best power and 140° and does not need the extra heat. He can run it where he has it but the power is not there.

So when someone else puts up and engine for what I done this unit for and had to do it with and comes up with a real deal so everyone can judge, let them do it and then we will through all these silly suggestion to someone who knows about cars and engines but is clearly not a professional. Jeff and his dad are great people and 100% the best customers I have ever dealt with. But I think if he has a problem with my engine, he should be listening to me. I have everything to loose here with my pants down and nothing really to gain. I have been in these situations before and stupidity will kill the patient every time when Dick, Bob, George, Buddy, Chis, Dana all tell the customer what they think and then when something goes wrong, it ofcourse always is the engine builders fault.

Jeff, one thing to say here, don't make me look bad here with my decision to help you out and give you something you could of never gotten anywhere else! Listen to me and me only!

I KNEW WEEKS AGO THAT WAS COMING

If you help someone you do, If you dont you dont, But I will NEVER throw that fact in their face that I helped them

That is total BS Bill

EDIT: I have the say a few things bothering me bad

He Could have not got it anywhere Bill? The camshaft is almost identical to my off the shelf Crane with more duration @.200" than the Comp and we have been using that Crane grind forever and it is well proven on the track, so is the Comp you have in the engine, again nothing special.

Yes you did a good thing for Jeff, Respect that, Dont throw it up in his face like a dog, He never one time said anything about you or to discredit what you did. He has been nothing but excited you helped him out

[1997bird]

Calm down Butch, take a deep breath and find your happy spot! LOL Bill is Bill and nothing is going to change that. Not even his new vacations from Dart's forum.

Jeff I hope you get all of the bugs worked out of your new engine. Sounds like your gunna have some fun with the hotrod after you get her to running right.

[Awesome Bill]

As long as he listens to me, his engine will be fine, if he listens to a bunch of people who don't know what is going on and all the suggestions, it might not work out so well. he's got more power than he knows what to do with, thats good enough.

When you want to do an engine for nothing, just let that person know and I am sure they will take you up on it~! Vacations are very nice, especially on Crusin weekend, 20,000 hots rods in town and they are all breaking down, need race fuel and 4-60lb nitrous tanks are already gone, yeah I am busy. this is my lunch period so I am off again.

[want-a-be]

I had/have a standing offer to Jeff. I am more then happy to donate my time to him. and he knows it.
It's not any big deal at all for me to give my time to guys like Jeff, and he knows it.
Don

[lun40119]

As long as he listens to me, his engine will be fine, if he listens to a bunch of people who don't know what is going on and all the suggestions, it might not work out so well. he's got more power than he knows what to do with, thats good enough.

When you want to do an engine for nothing, just let that person know and I am sure they will take you up on it~! Vacations are very nice, especially on Crusin weekend, 20,000 hots rods in town and they are all breaking down, need race fuel and 4-60lb nitrous tanks are already gone, yeah I am busy. this is my lunch period so I am off again.

What did you ever come up with as the problem. I know you said it was 585 HP, and if it was that thing should absolutely roll the street rubber. Instead it was kind of falling on its nose. A POPPING engine is usually a sign of an unhappy engine. To me the whole thing sounds just wierd. He should have been able to bolt it up and let her rip. Haven't heard from him in a while. Maybe this thing is sorted out, and he is at the stip banging off some bottom 10's with this thing. At least that is what your dyno says it should run.......;) Cant wait to find out. By the way, welcome back.

[Trmnatr]

As long as he listens to me, his engine will be fine, if he listens to a bunch of people who don't know what is going on and all the suggestions, it might not work out so well. he's got more power than he knows what to do with, thats good enough.

When you want to do an engine for nothing, just let that person know and I am sure they will take you up on it~! Vacations are very nice, especially on Crusin weekend, 20,000 hots rods in town and they are all breaking down, need race fuel and 4-60lb nitrous tanks are already gone, yeah I am busy. this is my lunch period so I am off again.

Bill Im not gonna tell you that you dont know anything like you just told me, Jake, Kris, Carl, Jake, Tom, Don and more. I dont know them on a personal level and some I would not want too (sorry to them) but face facts, they do know their $hit

As to Jeff's engine. You told me the only way to test heads is "Dyno Tune" the engine, drop it in the car so it is ready to go.

So Jeff's engine was dyno tuned on your dyno, Why wont it run well in the car? It should be ready to rock as is

I am not knocking you so before you start that BS I will end it. I have seen where jetting has to go up 1-2 sizes off the dyno, no big deal, that shouldnt effect the issues Jeff is having

[lun40119]

Bill Im not gonna tell you that you dont know anything like you just told me, Jake, Kris, Carl, Jake, Tom, Don and more. I dont know them on a personal level and some I would not want too (sorry to them) but face facts, they do know their $hit

As to Jeff's engine. You told me the only way to test heads is "Dyno Tune" the engine, drop it in the car so it is ready to go.

So Jeff's engine was dyno tuned on your dyno, Why wont it run well in the car? It should be ready to rock as is

I am not knocking you so before you start that BS I will end it. I have seen where jetting has to go up 1-2 sizes off the dyno, no big deal, that shouldnt effect the issues Jeff is having

Finalized the cam lobes today Butchy.......getting close you handing you your tail......:) Your spanking will be handed out in short order :D

[snakeeater1968]

I had/have a standing offer to Jeff. I am more then happy to donate my time to him. and he knows it.
It's not any big deal at all for me to give my time to guys like Jeff, and he knows it.
Don

Thanks alot Don... i might take you up on that... NO the car isn't running right yet... To give some respect to bill i'm trying to not make negative posts...but the door always swings both ways..... i'm going to just wait till dad gets here and helps sort them out...

Butttt BIll i will only take so much about you constantly telling me how I owe you...and i would never have had a motor like this if it weren't for you....Thats BS we all know it.... take a look at my profile...you didn't lay one finger on the bird and it run's great we ran 6.40's @ 111 mph in the 1/8 with it last weekend... I'm not the one you want to make threats to.... or try and dog on for givig me a good deal...yes you gave me a good deal and now the deal is done... leave it alone...I paid for the parts and time...if it wasn't enuff you should have said something then.....you don't need to be throwing it in my face alllll the time, I got it......and..... i've taken what i'm going to take....

[lun40119]

Keep at her Jeff, you will get it.........If all else fails. There are some people here on this board that have been involved in some of the highest levels of carb developement. Its all up to you.............but it is definately no fun banging your head against the wall.

[snakeeater1968]

Keep at her Jeff, you will get it.........If all else fails. There are some people here on this board that have been involved in some of the highest levels of carb developement. Its all up to you.............but it is definately no fun banging your head against the wall.

thanks jake... some times it takes a while...but things normaly end up working out with the car...i'm trying to be pacient... Dads bringing down the Bird...I'm pretty sure we are going to go racing at rocking ham for memorial day weekend they are having free footbrake cometition all weekend...

It might not be a clutch thing that is causing the violent shaking...it might be that it is wrapping up the chasey from all the TQ and putting the ujoint in a bind... dads coming to look at it..

[CNC BLOCKS]

As long as he listens to me, his engine will be fine, if he listens to a bunch of people who don't know what is going on and all the suggestions, it might not work out so well. he's got more power than he knows what to do with, thats good enough.

When you want to do an engine for nothing, just let that person know and I am sure they will take you up on it~! Vacations are very nice, especially on Crusin weekend, 20,000 hots rods in town and they are all breaking down, need race fuel and 4-60lb nitrous tanks are already gone, yeah I am busy. this is my lunch period so I am off again.


Thats an interesting comment a guy buys an engine off the dyno and it won't even turn a tire, I don't blame Jeff for looking for help as you had your turn.

Tom is probably the best Carb guy on this site and he has earned a great reputation for carb work as he developed DEI restrictror plate program when he was their and also did the carb work for TRD when he worked at their shop, Bill if you want to bash Tom on carb tunning your barking up the wrong tree.

It really sounds like Jeff is very disapointed in his engine and I don't blame him for tring to find answers.

Jeff you are serving our Country and I really respect you for that. If you want some real answers pull your engine send it over to Tom and run it on a real dyno and get some real tuning help and I will pay for dyno run and tunning.

After looking at the spread sheet on your dyno run and the consumed air and pounds perhour of fuel it really is not adding up to 585 horse. JMHO

This is only my opinion but I think somebody may have gotten the AWSOME SHAFT here.:D:D

[snakeeater1968]

Thats an interesting comment a guy buys an engine off the dyno and it won't even turn a tire, I don't blame Jeff for looking for help as you had your turn.

Tom is probably the best Carb guy on this site and he has earned a great reputation for carb work as he developed DEI restrictror plate program when he was their and also did the carb work for TRD when he worked at their shop, Bill if you want to bash Tom on carb tunning your barking up the wrong tree.

It really sounds like Jeff is very disapointed in his engine and I don't blame him for tring to find answers.

Jeff you are serving our Country and I really respect you for that. If you want some real answers pull your engine send it over to Tom and run it on a real dyno and get some real tuning help and I will pay for dyno run and tunning.

After looking at the spread sheet on your dyno run and the consumed air and pounds perhour of fuel it really is not adding up to 585 horse. JMHO

This is only my opinion but I think somebody may have gotten the AWSOME SHAFT here.:D:D

I don't know how Toms storage space is there...but.. I will be leaving soon and would even pay a little rent to leave the car there and let him tinker with it and beat on it while i'm gone or take it down the track and let me know how it ran that would kick @$$ to see it get some track time... the car needs some love... and my CAR bank accunt is on E til i get back... he could even use it as a parts getter while i'm gone... my wife will have her SUV under the car port the second i step on the plain and i'd rather it not set out in the rain...i just had a new interior put in it...

I'm trying to post the dyno numbers...maybe Don will help me out... can you explain why you feel the numbers don't add up??? Pm me if you want to... I don't want anyone to get sent on vacation....for trying to help me out...

[snakeeater1968]

As long as he listens to me, his engine will be fine, if he listens to a bunch of people who don't know what is going on and all the suggestions, it might not work out so well. he's got more power than he knows what to do with, thats good enough.

When you want to do an engine for nothing, just let that person know and I am sure they will take you up on it~! Vacations are very nice, especially on Crusin weekend, 20,000 hots rods in town and they are all breaking down, need race fuel and 4-60lb nitrous tanks are already gone, yeah I am busy. this is my lunch period so I am off again.

I see you had some free time Bill... can you tell me where the Video of my motor being dyno'd is...

thanks

[lun40119]

I have been excited to see some dyno vids too.............I saw some of the information of the dyno pulls, and alot of it doesn't make sense. Your fuel numbers were really low, to be making that kind of power. But then again what do I know. Except for the fact that I had one that backed up the numbers at the track, that used quite a bit more fuel/air. And made 600HP. And no we aren't talking 5gal/hour.

The dyno that I normally run on is "EXACTLY" the same as the Awesome Dyno. I would like to see the vids of your runs.

[want-a-be]

Jeff asked me to post some graphs of his dyno runs that I generated for him. So here they are.

[want-a-be]

Tom is probably the best Carb guy on this site and he has earned a great reputation for carb work as he developed

Tom is a good guy to have in your pits for sure. He is doing a great job of taking care of Jake.

It really sounds like Jeff is very disapointed in his engine and I don't blame him for tring to find answers.

I don't think Jeff is actually disappointed with the engine build. I think he is just aggravated with the tune of the fuel delivery system, along with some chassis issues the new found torque has presented. Typical new car blues sounds to me like.

Jeff you are serving our Country and I really respect you for that. If you want some real answers pull your engine send it over to Tom and run it on a real dyno and get some real tuning help and I will pay for dyno run and tunning.

Carl,...I really hope Jeff takes you up on this great offer you have presented to him. You have actually gain some respect from me for making such a selfless offer. (although I realize you couldn't care less about that and I'm fine with that)



Don

[CNC BLOCKS]

Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS
Tom is probably the best Carb guy on this site and he has earned a great reputation for carb work as he developed

Tom is a good guy to have in your pits for sure. He is doing a great job of taking care of Jake.

It really sounds like Jeff is very disapointed in his engine and I don't blame him for tring to find answers.

I don't think Jeff is actually disappointed with the engine build. I think he is just aggravated with the tune of the fuel delivery system, along with some chassis issues the new found torque has presented. Typical new car blues sounds to me like.

Jeff you are serving our Country and I really respect you for that. If you want some real answers pull your engine send it over to Tom and run it on a real dyno and get some real tuning help and I will pay for dyno run and tunning.

Carl,...I really hope Jeff takes you up on this great offer you have presented to him. You have actually gain some respect from me for making such a selfless offer. (although I realize you couldn't care less about that and I'm fine with that)



Don

Thanks for the positive comments and it does matter as far as respect and thanks again!!

I don't know things do not add up here to me and Jeff being a service man I am just tring to make sure he got what he paid for and its is tuned the best as well.

If something is off on the numbers or tune up Tom is probably the best guy here to take it too.

Carl

[snakeeater1968]

Don

I am 100% willing to bring the car by Tom's shop... if Bill were close enuff i'd run it by his shop as well..but i'd have to take leave to make that happen and I don't want to waste anymoe of Bills time wih LOW budge hodge podge...if time permits I want to drive to Tom's and Tom can take a ride and see if it's the clutch or the pion angle is putting the drive line in a bind and causeing the violent shakes...motor realy wants to die when it happns.... and like it has been stated mannnnnyyyy times before i can't affod to hurt the motor so it sets in the car port...or i take it to go on a cruise with the boys and drive like grandma with them in the car....lol

where are you carl??? we are going to the track on memorial day weekend... I don't know if rockingham is to far for you or Tom to drive to.... they are having free footbrake raceing all weekend long....

http://www.rockinghamdragway.com/flyers/2010/m/index.htm

[want-a-be]

What leaf springs are you running? Mono or multileaf? Are you running slapper bars?

Don

[CNC BLOCKS]

I am 100% willing to bring the car by Tom's shop... if Bill were close enuff i'd run it by his shop as well..but i'd have to take leave to make that happen and I don't want to waste anymoe of Bills time wih LOW budge hodge podge...if time permits I want to drive to Tom's and Tom can take a ride and see if it's the clutch or the pion angle is putting the drive line in a bind and causeing the violent shakes...motor realy wants to die when it happns.... and like it has been stated mannnnnyyyy times before i can't affod to hurt the motor so it sets in the car port...or i take it to go on a cruise with the boys and drive like grandma with them in the car....lol

where are you carl??? we are going to the track on memorial day weekend... I don't know if rockingham is to far for you or Tom to drive to.... they are having free footbrake raceing all weekend long....

http://www.rockinghamdragway.com/flyers/2010/m/index.htm

I am to far away and Tom would just want the engine to run on the dyno not the whole car.

[lun40119]

If his engine is on the dyno before mine..................whoa boy things are going to get rowdy.........:D:D:D

[snakeeater1968]

If his engine is on the dyno before mine..................whoa boy things are going to get rowdy.........

no worries jake....i know you are counting the seconds till you get to fire up frankie...I don't want to be any distraction for that ....:):):) I don't know if Tom wants to take a look at it yet or IF he will have the time to.....I haven't talked to him...and I would drive there and let him take a ride first before i pulled the motor i don't want to waste his time....it may be something simple... like it needs a different spring in it... or the rear diff is getting all outa wack from the TQ... getting close to vacation time...so i'm in no hurry anymore...so long as it gets the bugs worked out sooner or later... and i can beat on it every now and again....driving like a grandma...is for kids in drivers ED....lol

[lun40119]

I was just messing with you. It will be done soon enough. When it gets here, I am just going to put it on the engine stand and look at it anyway.........;)

[snakeeater1968]

I was just messing with you. It will be done soon enough. When it gets here, I am just going to put it on the engine stand and look at it anyway.........;)

I knew you were kidding...but you are getting close to closing the deal and throwing frankie in the car.... it drives you crazy doesn't it...when you get this close to something that you have put so much time in..

[lun40119]

Its still in pieces.........just finalized the cam lobes and picked the rocker ratio. Not sure on the brand yet. Now that the cam is done, they can finish pistons. Tom is working on the intake right now. Welding and some other stuff. I think I hurt his feelings because I said I wanted more power. Poor guy is going to be sick of me by the time this is all done.

None the less, it will be done when its done. Until then, Ill just keep talking smack on the intronet.

[snakeeater1968]

Its still in pieces.........just finalized the cam lobes and picked the rocker ratio. Not sure on the brand yet. Now that the cam is done, they can finish pistons. Tom is working on the intake right now. Welding and some other stuff. I think I hurt his feelings because I said I wanted more power. Poor guy is going to be sick of me by the time this is all done.

None the less, it will be done when its done. Until then, Ill just keep talking smack on the intronet.

look at it this way...you could be wasting your time and money in a bar or club....this way you have something to show for all the time and money you put into it...an awesome running muscle car is way more of a chick magnet then a beer belly and a mullet...lol

no offence intended to the Billy Ray Cyrus fans out there.....:D

[snakeeater1968]

Its still in pieces.........just finalized the cam lobes and picked the rocker ratio. Not sure on the brand yet. Now that the cam is done, they can finish pistons. Tom is working on the intake right now. Welding and some other stuff. I think I hurt his feelings because I said I wanted more power. Poor guy is going to be sick of me by the time this is all done.

None the less, it will be done when its done. Until then, Ill just keep talking smack on the intronet.

so what your saying is that you have an almost new set of shaft rockers for sale....:D:D:D

[lun40119]

I offered them to you long time ago dude. Probably going to run them on my wifeys 383. :D

[snakeeater1968]

I offered them to you long time ago dude. Probably going to run them on my wifeys 383. :D

is that to keep peace in the house or are you planning on taking her to race at the track....

[lun40119]

Like I said...........I talk smack, she is on board 100% or I wouldn't be doing this. Tom is actually trying to hire her to drive the car..........she is 100lbs lighter than I am ;)

Her engine is getting Dart 180's with a HR cam this winter and some fuel injection, so I figured since I had the rockers and they are for the Dart head, I would run them. I sold both sets of stud stuff, (comp stainless, crane gold) and kept the shafts. They will last forever on that thing :)

[snakeeater1968]

Like I said...........I talk smack, she is on board 100% or I wouldn't be doing this. Tom is actually trying to hire her to drive the car..........she is 100lbs lighter than I am ;)

Her engine is getting Dart 180's with a HR cam this winter and some fuel injection, so I figured since I had the rockers and they are for the Dart head, I would run them. I sold both sets of stud stuff, (comp stainless, crane gold) and kept the shafts. They will last forever on that thing :)

Good to hear your both enjoying the hobby together....:) my boys love the car...thats enuff for me for now... the littlest one is always running to the nova and trying to open up the door... so like my old man did with me i set in there with him...while he sets on my lap grabs the steering wheel and takes me a ride...sound effects and all...till mom comes out side and ends the ride...

[chrisw1173]

Hey jeff I haven't said much but I have watch all the way trough this and wanted to say good luck with getting her lined out I know it can be such a pain when you have a new one and just want to take it out and twist on it but the dang thing just fights you! lol .

[snakeeater1968]

Hey jeff I haven't said much but I have watch all the way trough this and wanted to say good luck with getting her lined out I know it can be such a pain when you have a new one and just want to take it out and twist on it but the dang thing just fights you! lol .

thanks for the support...th Nova may just have to settle for the loudest grocery getter around and not the fastest.....lol

take care...

man this tread count is crazyyyyyyy

[Trmnatr]

Thats an interesting comment a guy buys an engine off the dyno and it won't even turn a tire, I don't blame Jeff for looking for help as you had your turn.

Tom is probably the best Carb guy on this site and he has earned a great reputation for carb work as he developed DEI restrictror plate program when he was their and also did the carb work for TRD when he worked at their shop, Bill if you want to bash Tom on carb tunning your barking up the wrong tree.

It really sounds like Jeff is very disapointed in his engine and I don't blame him for tring to find answers.

Jeff you are serving our Country and I really respect you for that. If you want some real answers pull your engine send it over to Tom and run it on a real dyno and get some real tuning help and I will pay for dyno run and tunning.

After looking at the spread sheet on your dyno run and the consumed air and pounds perhour of fuel it really is not adding up to 585 horse. JMHO

This is only my opinion but I think somebody may have gotten the AWSOME SHAFT here.:D:D

Carl, your not on my $hit list any more LOL

I respect that ALOT, You just moved up from 100th to the top 10, Respect you ALOT MORE NOW

[lun40119]

He has always been the same guy........................just depends how you look at it.

[Trmnatr]

He has always been the same guy........................just depends how you look at it.

Huh :confused:

Might be too late to understand lol

[CNC BLOCKS]

Carl, your not on my $hit list any more LOL

I respect that ALOT, You just moved up from 100th to the top 10, Respect you ALOT MORE NOW

Well thanks Butch

[lun40119]

Huh :confused:

Might be too late to understand lol

Carl has always been the same guy. You are just looking at it differently now. He is brutally honest. Some people like it, and respect it. Others think it is rude. Me personally, I like it, rather have someone tell me that it cant happen than to have them blow smoke up my rear, to get me to spend money.

Follow now Butchy??????

[3V Performance]

Class act Carl. ;)

Jeff sorry to hear your still having some problems. I had hoped you and Bill would have worked them out by now. If you get to a point and you feel your not making any gains I would be happy to try and help.

[snakeeater1968]

Class act Carl. ;)

Jeff sorry to hear your still having some problems. I had hoped you and Bill would have worked them out by now. If you get to a point and you feel your not making any gains I would be happy to try and help.

Thanks Tom, I haven't talked to Bill in a while... don't like the condesending tone he uses all the time now... I was willing to just try and figure it out on my own... but there are so many great minds here on the board... I'm not trying to disrespect the work and time he has put in on the motor... he's always trying to throw in my face that i could have never had a motor like this had it not been for him... do you know that the price you gave me to build a 427 was cheaper then this motor turned out to be.... when he said I would have never gotten a motor like the one he built...that was the last straw... I may have had to wait for it... but i would have gotten a great motor... probably from you...a couple of other guys here were great to shoot me a great price and i thank everyone for them.. I know that times are hard right now... But.. Bill was going to Dyno tune it...so i went that route... I'm not sorry that he built the motor at all...just taken back that he wants to try and throw it in my face alllll the time.... i don't want to owe anyone... I pay all my debts in full... or i don't buy it...

that being said... i would like to drop by or have you come race with us... maybe its just the setup on the car...and it's something simple... I realy want to take Carl up on his offer... thats realy Wonderful that Carl is willing to put up the money to make this right... I want you or dad to look at it before i yank it out...


we are racing this weekend coming up...I am tempted to take it down the track...with street tires or maybe slicks.... it may not be the clutch after all.... I would only take it down the track after dad gives it a once over....(gets the car to do a burn out) :cool:

let me know if you could use a 4spd car to get parts for the next 6-8 months....

[Trmnatr]

Thanks Tom, I haven't talked to Bill in a while... don't like the condesending tone he uses all the time now... I was willing to just try and figure it out on my own... but there are so many great minds here on the board... I'm not trying to disrespect the work and time he has put in on the motor... I'm not going to be talked down to, by some one that is always trying to throw in my face that he gave me a great deal i could have never ha had it not been for him... do you know that the price you gave me to build a 427 was cheaper then this motor turned out to be.... when he said I would have never gotten a motor like the one he built...that was the last straw... I may have had to wait for it... but i would have gotten a great motor... probably from you...a couple of other guys here were great to shoot me great price and i thank them for it I know that times are hard right now... But.. Bill was going to Dyno tune it...so i went that route... I'm not sorry that he built the motor at all...just taken bak that he wants to try and throw it in my face alllll the time... I'm about to leave again and I had thought about yanking the motor and sending it back and telling him to keep the moey all the parts and the motor... i don't want to owe anyone... I pay all my debts in full... or i don't buy it... that being said... i would like to drop by or have you come watch us race... maybe its just the setup on the car...and it's something simple... I realy want to take Carlsup on his offer... thats realy Wonderful that Carl is willing to put up the money to make this right... we are racing this weekend coming up...I am tempted to take it down the track...with street tires or maybe slicks.... it may not be the clutch after all.... I would only take it down the track after dad gives it a once over....(gets the car to do a burn out):cool:

Hi Jeff,

Sorry about all the mess.

When we talked (PM) I saw Bill had said something online about setting you up, which was basically why I didnt return the last couple PM's (not that I was being a D!CK but I knew this would happen and I did not want to be stuck in the middle, and Im not gonna run my mouth or fingers about it to you as I did not want to knock him in a PM by saying what I thought "MAY" happen based off past encounters with him)

Anyways, My point of posting this is a few things below.
1) do you have a double pumper to verify if it is in the carburetor or not?

2) if you do not have one, I have a good 750 down leg booster carburetor with a 1.401" venturii with 1 11/16" or 1 3/4" butterflys (I dont remeber which baseplate this one has on it)

the carb has been around for years, it sure is not pretty but you could try it and see if it works, I trust you to get it back as you protect us anyways

Some suggestions I have for you,
Does it do it in P or N?

Can you footbrake it a little with a buddy and when it starts its BS can you push the ACC PUMP ARM just a little to give it a small shot of fuel and see what it does, does it die or want to pick up?

Yes it should be right +/- 2 jet sizes and idle circuit and all should be fine IF it was dyno tunes, but its not so we have to go one step at a time

[lun40119]

Guys, I know I have contributed plenty to this thread, in a negative way, but enough is enough. We are really getting close to crossing aline that does not need to be crossed.............tech help is great, but lets not dwell on this.

[snakeeater1968]

Guys, I know I have contributed plenty to this thread, in a negative way, but enough is enough. We are really getting close to crossing aline that does not need to be crossed.............tech help is great, but lets not dwell on this.

you have a point jake...if anyone has anything else to add to the subject post it on my profile... lets let this thread die....finaly

[lun40119]

I am not saying I think the thread should go away. Im all for moving on with the tech side of the thread. Lets get it figured out. But sitting here and pointing fingers isn't doing anything constructive, and really isn't necesary.

As far as your car goes. Noone here can do anything without actually seeing/hearing what that thing is doing. One thing that I was thinking about is why you would be lugging that thing down to 2000rpms with a stick any way. Let the engine be where it is happy.

I do know my old stuff last year when I would slow way down and just pedal it, it would babble in the pipes, with the throttle blades just tipped in. But I like to keep my low speed circuit pretty lean. That is why it idled so well.

So next step for you would be to get some vids and get them on photobucket. Then just tag them on here. So the people here can hear what you are talking about. Noone is getting anywhere guessing...............

[snakeeater1968]

I am not saying I think the thread should go away. Im all for moving on with the tech side of the thread. Lets get it figured out. But sitting here and pointing fingers isn't doing anything constructive, and really isn't necesary.

As far as your car goes. Noone here can do anything without actually seeing/hearing what that thing is doing. One thing that I was thinking about is why you would be lugging that thing down to 2000rpms with a stick any way. Let the engine be where it is happy.

I do know my old stuff last year when I would slow way down and just pedal it, it would babble in the pipes, with the throttle blades just tipped in. But I like to keep my low speed circuit pretty lean. That is why it idled so well.

So next step for you would be to get some vids and get them on photobucket. Then just tag them on here. So the people here can hear what you are talking about. Noone is getting anywhere guessing...............

i live in the back of a housing addition...speed limit is 15 mph so i do idle around abit and there are alot of 20 and 35mph speed zones...and the gates coming in and out are normaly packed...when i go to WOT it is at 3,000 rpms in 1st gear... but driving around post speed limit is normaly 45mph but when i take it toromp on it it is normaly about 5 miles off of post....Federal tickets are nasty....trust me...i jut paid a 1,500 ticket....ouch...

sorry about the personal coments...i'm calming down...woooosaaaa..... i still think this post should fade away...and take it to my profile... dad will be here soon to clear up alot of this when he takes a ride i'll make him hold a camera...

[Dart Vader]

Jake, you're spot on... If we're going to make further posts here lets keep them to technical discussion.

This thread doesn't need to turn into some kind of bash-fest.

[snakeeater1968]

The old man came down today...we tore into the Nova.... we figured out the problem(S)...and we tried to take it to the track and Got rained out...we will try our luck tomorrow....


it was not the clutch after all... clutch was fine... no hot spots... we are looking to try our luck at the track rain permiting

[snakeeater1968]

The old man came down today...we tore into the Nova.... we figured out the problem(S)...and we tried to take it to the track and Got rained out...we will try our luck tomorrow....


it was not the clutch after all... clutch was fine... no hot spots... we are looking to try our luck at the track rain permiting

Best run at track was 8.59 in the 1/8 at 80.9 mph.... going to run again today..

LEFT AT 2,700 SHIFTED AT 5,500

R/T .099
60' 2.245
330 5.693
1/8 8.59
MPH 80.92

[lun40119]

2 things...........did you have slicks on the car, and did it seem like it was running ok???

[chrisw1173]

If the motor makes peak HP at 6000 then why the 5500 shift ?

[Trmnatr]

Best run at track was 8.59 in the 1/8 at 80.9 mph.... going to run again today..

LEFT AT 2,700 SHIFTED AT 5,500

R/T .099
60' 2.245
330 5.693
1/8 8.59
MPH 80.92

Your only showing ~450hp IMO

How was fuel pressure? What carb was this run with? How was traction?

[lun40119]

At 3200lbs........Butch, that thing is running a mid 13sec 1/4 mile. I gather with a 2.2 sec 60ft. he could cut off .7 in the first 60, but we are still talking a mid 12sec 1/4mile. That is a far cry from the bottom 10, this thing is capable of. That is why I asked about if it was running right?

[lun40119]

http://www.wallaceracing.com/8th-quarter.php
13.45 @ 100.34

http://www.wallaceracing.com/hpcalculatorquarter.php
Those times make it approx, 260HP at the crank........

[Trmnatr]

Jake, I say about 390-400hp

I thought he was 3600 pounds

Three reasons
1) It is humid here and he is further south, we are 2630' DA right now @ 5pm
2) I highly doubt he has a $750 converter like myself or you have on the street & as you know they slip 5% to 9% , Most of these smaller street converters ALONE will slip ~15% not counting power loss through the rear, drivashaft and all so it could be 20% loss he is seeing
3) When a car is not set up as a "drag car" it will show about 50-100hp less than it really is, you know this well

So if you figure the DA, the car not being set up as a car to ET well and a cheaper street converter that slips more than a 5500rpm effecient converter and there is your powerloss

Now Im not making excuses for the engine, Jeff or Bill, Im just saying I have seen this alot with street cars, they set them up better for ET and put an efecient matched converter in and I have seen cars just with those 2 things pick up almost a second in the 1/4

Even at what I mentioned it above, it is still showing a power loss from the dyno numbers. Maybe Bill will chime in with his thoughts as to why this is not turning the time

He is the same cubic inch as I was, we were 10.96:1 compression, grant it our car is 400 pound lighter, we were about 490-500hp and running low 10.40 to 10.47 all year long with basically a stock 406 (stock crank, rods, oe .030 pistons, block and stock gm heads with just a bowl port by me)

That engine is 3200' DA ran low 10.50's from our normal DA we race in.

So at that our engine should have been able to do a 10.80 at his weight

[lun40119]

It is a stick car.................

[snakeeater1968]

Your only showing ~450hp IMO

How was fuel pressure? What carb was this run with? How was traction?

Fuel pressure was 8#'s
750 VS same it was dyno'd with same jets and power valve
traction was nonnnexistant....

[snakeeater1968]

At 3200lbs........Butch, that thing is running a mid 13sec 1/4 mile. I gather with a 2.2 sec 60ft. he could cut off .7 in the first 60, but we are still talking a mid 12sec 1/4mile. That is a fart cry from the bottom 10, this thing is capable of. That is why I asked about if it was running right?

we fixed the carb....made sure the fuel line was right....but that thing is on it's face when i tried to shift it at 6,100...motor was pulling as hard as it could...

[snakeeater1968]

2 things...........did you have slicks on the car, and did it seem like it was running ok???

the run i posted was on street tires...i have more runs to post on street tires and slicks both...

[lun40119]

Ok, so how did it run on slicks. What was the problem that you and your dad found???

[snakeeater1968]

Ok, so how did it run on slicks. What was the problem that you and your dad found???

float was sticking on the primary side ...last week when i took it apart and cleaned it out i didn't check the floats i had just set them...... i just sprayed all over the bowel but realy i focused on the metering blocks spraying them out...the spring was in a bind that made the float stick at almost the top so when the car ran it seamed ok...but when you got on it it ran untill 3,000 rpms in 3rd then jerked back and forth realy bad and the temp shot wayyyyy up...dad caught it about 5 seconds after it did it when he took a ride...He laughed so hard when he caught it....looked at me and asked if i had any close pins....i was like.... close pins??????...what are you talking about

the carb was running out of gas...causing the motor to run lean..then the heat built up in the headers and heated up the fuel line still in the stock location it was vapor locking....

we unbolted the fuel line moved it from the STOCK location over to the fender and it stopped vapor locking....then when we got back we saw the float was sticking we fixed the float cleaned it out...now it is running good...dad worked on the carb for a long time....no taking anything for granted....last week i sprayed it out but never thought the spring would have been in a bind....dad says there is no way it made a dyno pull longer then 15 seconds there would have been no fuel left...

i have ran that same header for years with the other motor......and that fuel line has been there for 42 years....

problems solved wasn't the clutch

i made passes with street tires again...and with slick...i will post all the details tomorrow...

best part was they lined dad and I up together on my last pass.....so we got to settle some old scores.....

it was 100 degrees out there today....thats what the truck temp read.... best 1/8 mile time was 8.48

best MPH on a different pass in the 1/8 was on street tires at 88.7 mph

all passes it spun out of the whole or bogged the motor

when i shifted at 6,100 it ran high 8's when i shifted at 5,500 it ran mid 8's

it is a muncie M21 4 spd tranny with 4.10 gears dual friction clutch by centerforce
slicks are MT ET street 26X10.5
street tires are 235 60 r15 BFG radials

[lun40119]

Was the spring bound up in the bowl, when you got it back, or is it something that you did?

I think that there is alot left in that thing. Glad you got to run it though. Must have been fun. :)

[snakeeater1968]

Was the spring bound up in the bowl, when you got it back, or is it something that you did?

I think that there is alot left in that thing. Glad you got to run it though. Must have been fun. :)

spring was like that when we got it From Bill......dad had to use a screw driver to take float off and unbind spring..he said there was no way i could have done it the way it was bound... he said he couldn't have made a long pull becasue it would have ran out of gas...dad is going to create a user ID and get on here later this week...I tried to shift at 6,100 and it fell totaly on it's face at the track.... the only way i could get it to pull and shift hard...and it was pulling as hard as it could when I shifted at 5,500....that was all that motor had...

dad lined me up I was spinging a little bit coming out of the whole....but when i shifted it brought the front end up but didn/t spin the tires with the slicks....and only spun the tires in second gear with street tires...

I drove it to the track...on the way home we found a quiet spot and I gave it hell...I launched in first with street tires at 3,000 on the road it spun about ten feet then hook I shifted into second at 5,500 it barked the tires......I hammerd 3rd gear it didn't bark the tires and then shifted into 4th gear and it didn't bark the tires but it did bring the front up shifting into all gears....

i was running 36 degrees timeing and shell gas station 93 oct

dad wanted me to back the timing off to 34 degrees...but i want to run it as close to what bill sent it as possible...

i was launching between 2,200 and 3,200 at the track on street and slicks

made two runs day one and 3 runs day two....it was hot as hell...it was 100 and who knows what the humidity was there track was sticking great...

dad was footbreaking the Bird and running 6.40's all day long at 109

when dad was checking the clutch he said" you know you have a leaking rear main seal right....I said noooo...."

the fron intake is also leaking...looks like not enuff sealer was used to replace the gasket...that was leaking since the first time it was fired up so i knew about that...this motor was never taken over 220 and that was water temp not engine temp...

I put in a 6,500 rev chip so i know it hasn't went over 6,500

[snakeeater1968]

day one at track

first pass street tires left at 2,600

60' 2.284
330 5.869
1/8 8.912
mph 78.26

29/may/2010 1:01 pm

second pass street tires

60' 2.245
330 5.693
1/8 8.591
mph 80.92



only got two passes first day

[snakeeater1968]

i drove it home an hour and a half and back

first pass of the day....street tires 30/may/2010 10:59AM

60' 2.286
330 5.958
1/8 8.772
mph 88.59


Time to let it eat i put the slicks on....


second pass street tires 30/may/2010 12:16pm

60' 2.257
330 5.71
1/8 8.895
mph 72.77

I ran it to 6,200 and shifted and missed 3rd.....opps:o

final run was @ 3:44 PM

60' 2.299
330 5.663
1/8 8.484
MPH 84.70

I hit every gear dead on last pass...i raced dad final pass....I dropped the clutch and drove it like i stole it!!!!! shifted at 5,500 in every gear....i dialed in an 8.50 and ran a 8.48 i broke out by .016 dad was dead on

[snakeeater1968]

my car has sub frame conectors by comp engineering bolt in that are also welded in.....i have 1 1/2 lowering springs that are multileaf on the back i have comp engineeering tracktion bars..it has all poly body mounts...2" drop spindles in the front...and big block coil springs up front...shocks are 90 10's....the front end pops right up...especialy with 4.10's and a good possi...

I have picks and video i'll try and post later.....

[snakeeater1968]

Jake, I say about 390-400hp

I thought he was 3600 pounds

Three reasons
1) It is humid here and he is further south, we are 2630' DA right now @ 5pm
2) I highly doubt he has a $750 converter like myself or you have on the street & as you know they slip 5% to 9% , Most of these smaller street converters ALONE will slip ~15% not counting power loss through the rear, drivashaft and all so it could be 20% loss he is seeing
3) When a car is not set up as a "drag car" it will show about 50-100hp less than it really is, you know this well

So if you figure the DA, the car not being set up as a car to ET well and a cheaper street converter that slips more than a 5500rpm effecient converter and there is your powerloss

Now Im not making excuses for the engine, Jeff or Bill, Im just saying I have seen this alot with street cars, they set them up better for ET and put an efecient matched converter in and I have seen cars just with those 2 things pick up almost a second in the 1/4

Even at what I mentioned it above, it is still showing a power loss from the dyno numbers. Maybe Bill will chime in with his thoughts as to why this is not turning the time

He is the same cubic inch as I was, we were 10.96:1 compression, grant it our car is 400 pound lighter, we were about 490-500hp and running low 10.40 to 10.47 all year long with basically a stock 406 (stock crank, rods, oe .030 pistons, block and stock gm heads with just a bowl port by me)

That engine is 3200' DA ran low 10.50's from our normal DA we race in.

So at that our engine should have been able to do a 10.80 at his weight



what carb and intake where you running and what rpm where you shifting at???

[chrisw1173]

I dont know.... I have to agree with jake on this one .That thing should have some more left in it!! Your times with street tires and slicks were not really any diffrent which throws a red flag up for me........... But I am glad you got to get it out and run it I would just like to see you get all of it:D

[chrisw1173]

Are you for sure that your secondarys are opening all the way? It just makes me wonder if they are seeing that it is falling on its face at 6100 and running faster at 5500. You have enough cam and head that it should ??? pull to 6400 give or take some with out a problem.

[Trmnatr]

what carb and intake where you running and what rpm where you shifting at???

Jeff, here is what my complete combo was at that time

1980 Camaro, 2800 race weight then
- GM 4 bolt 400 small block .030" over
- GM nodular iron crank
- KB claimer OE style .030" over's but for 5.7" rods, 10.96:1 compression
- GM 350 rods, polished the beams
- 5/64" 5/64" 3/16" rings std tension
- GM 291 Camel Hump Heads, 2.02"/1.6" valves, VJ by me, bowl ported by me, no other work other than spring pockets holesaw cut for 1.46" springs
- Crane Solid Cam,,, 292/300 @.020" 256/264 @.050" 164/172 @.200" .545"/.563" 105 degree lobe seperation installed 3 degree advanced to 102 intake centerline
- As Cast Victor Jr. 2975
- 1000 race carb built by me

Transmission,,,,
- Powerglide with ATI Transbrake
- ATI 8" Treemaster 5,200rpm stall

Rear End,,,,
- Moser 35 spline axles and spool
- Richmond Pro Gears, 4.88
- Mickey Thompson 32x14 L8 Compound Slicks

With this engine combo we did not care about pushing the ET to the max, we launched the car at 3,200rpm every single pass. Yes in testing it did run faster but not as consistent, At 3,200rpm it would run 10.41 to 10.47 ALL DAY LONG. Here are the ET's
Pass 1
60' 1.433
330' 4.260
660' 6.640 @ 102.95mph
1,000' 8.708
1/4 10.475 @ 127.92 {new best as of now with 4.88's}

Pass 2
60' 1.429
330' 4.264
660' 6.646 @ 102.94mph
1,000' 8.713
1/4 10.476 @ 128.16mph {new best as of now with 4.88's}

Pass 3
60' 1.432
330' 4.258
660' 6.631 @ 103.45mph
1,000' 8.689
1/4 10.452 @ 128.42mph {new best as of now with 4.88's}

Pass 4
60' 1.418
330' 4.231
660' 6.603 @ 103.31mph
1,000' 8.665
1/4 10.434 @ 127.76mph

Pass 5
60' 1.421
330' 4.247
660' 6.622 @ 103.17mph
1,000' 8.687
1/4 10.453 @ 127.85mph

Pass 6
60' 1.430
330' 4.241
660' 6.615 @ 103.21
1,000' 8.679
1/4 10.452 @ 126.29mph LIFTING

Pass 7
60' 1.428
330' 4.251
660' 6.627 @ 103.13mph
1,000' 8.691
1/4 10.458 @ 128.01mph

This video is the burnout for the 10.452 pass
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0576.flv

This video is of the 10.452 pass
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0577.flv

This video is of Nate {driver} stopping by the booth to get the time ticket
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0578.flv

Here is a video of the 10.453 pass
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0587.flv

Here is a video of the burnout for the 10.434 pass
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0583.flv

Here is a video of the 10.434 pass
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0584.flv

This is a video coming off the return road
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0585.flv

This is a video pulling out of the pits going up to the staging lanes
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s...t=MVI_0586.flv

[snakeeater1968]

I dont know.... I have to agree with jake on this one .That thing should have some more left in it!! Your times with street tires and slicks were not really any diffrent which throws a red flag up for me........... But I am glad you got to get it out and run it I would just like to see you get all of it:D

I am agreeing with both you and jake....it has more...but not in this set up that I got it in....dad says the same thing.....i talked to don at the track he thinks the same thing...the secondarys are not opening all the way.... like i said before...it doesn't have it on the top end and it didn't turn the tires over with street tires at the track or the road shifting at 5,500 in 3rd or 4th gear....that tells me this carb is not giving the motor the gas to make power up there...

someone here on the board called and said...i'll bet if you take and disconect the secondarires it will run the exact same time or veryyy close... i'm going to agree ...


that leaves me with where do i go from here....

Dad took the broken 830 back with him....he's taking it to our speed shop back home and going to fix it there and set it up for the new motor.... I have no doubts it will run better especialy on the big end....

I ran 12.89@ 107mph with a 350 +.060 camel hump heads everything else the same...i used to run the 830 carb on the street with that set up....

I did follow Bills advice and took the thermostat out....it ran cool at 160-170 all the way to the track it was a 1 1/2 to the track and the temp when i was running down the track on the motor was 160 start to finish....