guide plate issues

[406freak]

this may seem like a dumb question. why do i get a bind on the intake side pushrod doesnt matter if i flip the guide plate over it still binds on the intake side. they are the flat guide plates part # that was on the spec sheet

[BAD67]

Join the club i had the same problem with mine had to have all my intakes clearanced so the pushrods were not hitting.i tried using the adjustable guide plates dart sent and all that is a band aid to the problem they could have fixed before it left there shop.There guide plate moved my rocker too far off the center of the valve stem,which dart said would be ok thats BS.

[Awesome Bill]

If it binds, you have to clearance them. Welcome to our world. Offset shaft rockers work the best, AFR has some guide plates that cock the rocker a little and sometimes helps. We always mock it up and clearance first. Yes its a pain in the butt. Have fun.

[lun40119]

I think he was asking why it binds, that from what I have read...I have gathered that it is because the runners are bigger. I had a little clearance issues too. It isn't just Dart heads that have this issue.........alot of the larger runner heads have problems. When you are all done, you will be happy with your new heads.......I know that I am.

[406freak]

allright so if i touch off on the edges that bind how much material is safe to take out. how thick is that wall before I end up inside the runner:confused:

[want-a-be]

When taking off material in this spot...less is more. Here is what I do. Take some bluing or a good black magic marker. Coat the all up and down where the push rod runs. Dummy every thing up and roll the assembly through it's total motion. Best to do this a few times. Look for where the marker has been rubbed off. " LIGHTLY"grind this area out to make room for the push rod. Then dummy everything up again to check your work. Best to go a little at a time until you get the hang of it. .020-.030 ought to be enough clearence. Someone else might have a better measurement for that. But you'd be suprised as to how much a pushrod can flex while running. That why Bill preaches so much about pushrods.
To measure the wall thickness there I took an old set of calipers and welded an inch pin on the slide side and use them to accuratly measure it. Poor mans tool. But it works really good.

Thanks, Don

[Awesome Bill]

thats exactly almost what we do also, but we make sure we lube the push rod tips with some extreme pressure lube so we don't wear out or gauld the 2 sufraces on the rocker and lifter. If this is a flat tappet, make sure lube is also on the cam and lifter. Best thing is valve springs removed and light weight springs on them so you can quickly and easily do this. If the engine is apart, just have the crank and cam in there and you can work around it a little better. If everything is together, you will have to remove the head each time until you get it. We put a set of calipers on an older machinest tong and that works good for checking for thickness. Pushrods are one of the weakest links in the valve train.

[406freak]

thanks guys i will get to work on that tomorrow

[want-a-be]

thanks guys i will get to work on that tomorrow

IF you need any help or have any questions PM me here and I'd be glad to give you some contact info and try to walk you through it. ;)

Later, Don :cool:

[406freak]

well did some clearencing on one pushrod hole started to go thru before it would clear so now a ? about offset rockers with adjustable guide plates if i go offset rockers do i need offset lifters to about at my witts end here

[want-a-be]

through the intake runner ?? or the push rod through the guide?

Don :cool:
WCRE

[lun40119]

What heads are these exactly..........I am not sure if you said........and by go through you mean into the intake runners?????

[Awesome Bill]

we have never went threw with a 5/16 push rod. If your using 3/8, it is very close. I think someone does make a offset roller rocker, but we use Jesel or T&D shaft rockers with the proper offset to clean that roller rocker blues. Also, the left or right position roller lifters are readily available threw Comp Cams,(we use them all the time) so that will give you that extra at the bottom of the push rod hole you need.

[406freak]

they are the 230cc runners. and i startd to go thru the intake runner yes. so i quit may have to do a little patch just to be safe but i see no light so i am safe i think. so here is what i have figured out has i would push the guide plate over and tighten it down it would move back to where it would rub must of the time bind. so i put the guide plates on put the studs in almost tight and used a little screw driveer to pry it over just a little pressure and then tighten it down it all cleared with piece of paper folded in half 3 times it went in between the pushrod and hole with ease. i guess i just alwasy thought the studs and guide plates were always designed to locate. (Brain farts) and i guess i couldnt hold them over with my thumb to keep them where they needed to be. reason i figured this out i called dart (very helpfull people) and they gave some dimensions and there is no reason that these should hit. well when done right they dont.. LOL.. thanks everyone

[lun40119]

Uh Oh..........230's on a 406, you are going to get yelled at;)

[lun40119]

DART TECH.............. do 230s from Dart require an offset stud mounted rocker. I am pretty sure that they do from the other guys.........just curious????? I was able to clearance the 215's with a very minor amount of material removal. Any one have valvetrain pics of the 230's with stud mounted rockers????

[Awesome Bill]

Actually, they are the break for what I consider big. But, with a drag car and a 5500-5800 stall converter, usually set up for around 575-600 hp, (no converter slippage), they will do fine. Street car closed exhaust and all that dumb stuff about driving around, NO. I think Don is a pretty sharp pencil some times but the drag to real street car stuff some times is a little different situation. When you have a 5500 converter, it will be in peak torque and pull very well. If its shifted @ 6800-7200, it will run very well.

Getting to your pics, none to share, but your offset rocker is the way to go. We offset them all the time from Jesel or T&D. It makes life wonderful for the assembly guy. You have to get the right offset.

[lun40119]

In my previous post I asked if there were any pics of the 230's with stud mounted rockers. I don't own 230s But i do have pics of the 215s with both crane golds and comp stainless rockers. I am sure you have seen them but you are welcome to see them if you want to. I am running the stainless rockers with +.100 valves and 8.100 pushrods. take care.

[Dart Vader]

DART TECH.............. do 230s from Dart require an offset stud mounted rocker. I am pretty sure that they do from the other guys.........just curious????? I was able to clearance the 215's with a very minor amount of material removal. Any one have valvetrain pics of the 230's with stud mounted rockers????
I'm not a tech, but...
No, our 230 heads don't require an offset stud mounted rocker.

[blown71nova]

Same problem w/ my new 230's hitting intake side only. how much do i have to mill out of them and how much before going inti the intake port . i guess what i am asking is how thick is the space between push guide and intake port. i am Not going to run ofset rockers on the street again and i dont want i wear out the valve guides Sorry just had to vent Dart should pay for this it's b.s.

[lun40119]

Dart Heads are not the only aftermarket head that has this issue with the big runners.........There are countless threads on countless websites with people complaining that nothing fits. Just take your time, and pay attention and remove material until it works. I was worried about mine too when I first put them on and nothing fit. Rockers hit springs, and pushrods were hitting runners. It is easy to feel overwhelmed. Just be patient, you will love the heads.

[Awesome Bill]

not very much! Be careful

[blown71nova]

this may seem like a dumb question. why do i get a bind on the intake side pushrod doesnt matter if i flip the guide plate over it still binds on the intake side. they are the flat guide plates part # that was on the spec sheet

i took my 230 heads down to my machine shop and took .035 off all 8 intake holes were push rods were hitting FIXED DONE DEAL

[lun40119]

Get ready to enjoy them :D

[Awesome Bill]

that is about right, Maybe Dart can make that adjustment in their next refinement. Would be nice to actually bolt on these heads