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View Full Version : how much power can i make with the sportsman block


Mattsv8_03
06-03-2010, 03:34 PM
. hey guys my current stock block with splayed caps on my turbo s10 is making just over 1000 hp.
how much could i take a sportsman block too. my combo is maxed at 1400. but id like to make somewhere arround 1200.

BIG CHIEF
06-04-2010, 07:02 PM
Mattsv8_03,

We rate the sportsman block around 1,500 HP assuming the tune up is correct. For your application I would recommend the steel billet caps. It will be cheap insurance to spend the little bit of extra money for the upgraded cap material. Let me know if you have any further questions?

Thanks,

Mattsv8_03
06-05-2010, 01:37 PM
im not thinking of the little m sportsman. im thinking of the shp.
i already have the dart little m with billett caps for a 400 buildup.
i want a little bit stronger than my stock block.

CNC BLOCKS
06-05-2010, 03:35 PM
Dart rates that block at 600 horse, But we have a Procharger engine we built last year that was just over 700 horse and is holding up fine.

Trmnatr
06-05-2010, 11:48 PM
im not thinking of the little m sportsman. im thinking of the shp.
i already have the dart little m with billett caps for a 400 buildup.
i want a little bit stronger than my stock block.

I have seen N/A engines with splayed caps on GM blocks hold 650hp on big stroke engines such as 3.75" strokes and 3.875" strokes

I have seen N/A engines with 3.00" to 3.48" stroke handle up to 700hp I assume due to the shorter stroke

These are filled engines with Hardblok, Splayed caps, Studs, Plate Honed, Mods to oiling system and more.

I have seen guys with turbos take these blocks with just splayed caps to 800hp, I dont have a clue how, being im not up on turbos I can only assume it is much easier hit on the block than a N/A or Nitrous engine

lun40119
06-06-2010, 02:10 AM
I would love to see one of your 700HP Gm block 350's ;)

Trmnatr
06-06-2010, 06:23 AM
I would love to see one of your 700HP Gm block 350's ;)

Maybe I should be more accurate, ~680hp which I rounded to 700hp lol

They are not your average GM block,, Select GM blocks

We have one GM block where the thrust walls are in the .215" to .230" range :p It is also filled with Hardblok, modified oiling system, much larger drain backs, full lifter valley prep, ARP main studs with Nodular Iron Caps (I like Milodon)

Really is a lot of work for a stock block

I would like to take it, switch it over to a Dart or World block and see how much more power we could get. I think with a 55mm cam, could gain some good HP due to more stable valve train

Awesome Bill
06-06-2010, 12:07 PM
. hey guys my current stock block with splayed caps on my turbo s10 is making just over 1000 hp.
how much could i take a sportsman block too. my combo is maxed at 1400. but id like to make somewhere arround 1200.

If your stock block, which is as thick on the cylinder wall is making 1000, then the SHP block will handle 1400 with no problems. We made a little 400 blown Nostalgia 8-71 blower engine and it made with no problems 938 hp, its on the youtube site. I think we as engine builders get more and more forgetful just how good some stock short blocks can be with splayed caps and a fill.

I had a customer make 1000+hp with a stock block and stock crank for 2 years and never did break the block or crank. He broke the stock 350 steel cranks snout off from hitting the chip to many times. That engine was not filled nor did it have splayed caps. That was Tim Ohara's first lession in an alky blown carbed engine that put his stock back halfed 1969 famous Camara door car @ 3450 lbs right to 8.80's @ 155. That is not a joke and that was the beginning of Tims racing with real power and now has run as quick as 6.01! Different block I am sure.

I would be more than willing to bet, that the SHP block would handle 1400 hp with the turbo's. I have seen plenty of stock block turbo stuff with the SBF and SBC well over what anyone says they will handle. The question is do you want to see it and take the chance you get one that won't go the extra mile? Good luck

CNC BLOCKS
06-06-2010, 04:56 PM
im not thinking of the little m sportsman. im thinking of the shp.
i already have the dart little m with billett caps for a 400 buildup.
i want a little bit stronger than my stock block.

Seeing Dart rates there Sportsman blocks around 1500 horse and the SHP does not have the better material and the front and rear bulk heads are like a 010 block and the webbing is not as strong either as the Sportsman blocks, Plus the outer bolts are only 3/8 compared to 7/16 on the Sportsman blocks at 1400 horse dependability comes into play.

Becarefull on guys posting dyno numbers they tend to be inflated to sell product as some guys will do any thing to make a buck.

Carl

Not necessary to dredge up other discussions that are not related to this one. Please avoid doing so. - DV

lun40119
06-07-2010, 12:18 PM
I am with Carl on this one. Here is another way to look at it. If you are spending the money to build that kind of HP. Why would you use an SHP block when you have the IE or the Little M. That is the kind of stuff they are built for. To me it is just a gamble that is not worth taking. Well, at least it is a gamble I wouldn't be willing to take with my money............

Awesome Bill
06-18-2010, 10:57 AM
I am with Carl on this one. Here is another way to look at it. If you are spending the money to build that kind of HP. Why would you use an SHP block when you have the IE or the Little M. That is the kind of stuff they are built for. To me it is just a gamble that is not worth taking. Well, at least it is a gamble I wouldn't be willing to take with my money............

For years we filled blocks, splayed main the 3 centers are shot them full of nitrous with over 800 hp all the time and occasionally 1000 hp for the small blocks and 1200 for BBC. What something is rated for does not mean it will not do. We have been pushing the envelope to carry more and more for years.

The SHP block or the stock GM blocks do not need a ton of strength in the bulkheaded area. The bulkhead areas never were the problem. That is never where the problem is. So mentioning the bulk headed area is silly at best. That is like putting material where it is not needed.

The thing that always caused a problem was the mains, stock mounted motor mounts, webbing with the mains and cylinder walls, and thin decks. Now with the SHP block, it has very good material, not he best some would argue but better than GM stuff for sure, it is brand new and not 30-40 years old and been serviced more than an older lady of the night and it has the material where it is always need.

The deck surface, the mains and the cylinder walls makes this block way ahead of anything you can do to a stock block with some fancy cap work. The block will easily handle the 1000 hp and if we filled it even more. Would I run it there, if I had to and that was my choice between a $1500.00 race prepped 40 year old 010 block with splayed caps and clean surfaces. I have learned when I can do something safer and know it with power, I will always go better.

But some people want to use it and get away with it and not have a problem, what is the problem?

brayanaustin
07-24-2010, 05:46 AM
Vi N/A engines with 3.00 to 3.48 stroke 700HP manage to guess the engines of shorter Hardblok are filled, lids removed, nails, plate honed, mods to the oiling system and more .

Awesome Bill
07-26-2010, 10:26 AM
Vi N/A engines with 3.00 to 3.48 stroke 700HP manage to guess the engines of shorter Hardblok are filled, lids removed, nails, plate honed, mods to the oiling system and more .

You have to week out the unsubstantiated HP #'s with real track e.t. with know weight and ofcourse the big MPH. Good race times just prove power, not like the claims of power that are never tested at a track!

These are only some blocks that have been pushed way beyond where they should be! 8.85 @ 155mph and I was driving only proves my stuff with my dyno really does make the power. Its not hard to make killer power when its blown or supercharged or better yet turbo with alky!
Tims car was in street trim with a real street car that had alternator, real exhaust and drove it to the cruisings from Selbville to Ocean City. but yet we believe some people on this board can make n/a 750 +hp with pump gas and a 434 with and unbelievable head that flows more than most well prepaired BBC heads with 2.25 valves and start with 325+ cc ports! So whats it up here?

I never claimed any block should be run @ any power over what the recommended ratings the manufacture put on it. But we sure do push that right over the top now and get away with it. Some times you will find some weak ones and that is what hurts. But if your going to cut corners, at least don't use a stock block that someone has just painted up nice and run it threw a cnc machine with some Chinese caps put on it and get burned. Buy the proven SHP block at a cheaper price, brand new real loaded with nickle block with splayed caps that will easily handle 900-1000 hp. At least the cylinder walls won't move around like the stock, now junk older GM blocks that have been brought back from the dead with some pretty paint and new freeze plugs at well over $1000.00! Not saying anyone on this board does this but it sure goes on! Buy the SHP block from DART and you won't have any problems.

Dart Vader
07-26-2010, 12:31 PM
Multiple posts edited and deleted for argumentive content.

-DV

Awesome Bill
08-01-2010, 12:18 PM
I am with Carl on this one. Here is another way to look at it. If you are spending the money to build that kind of HP. Why would you use an SHP block when you have the IE or the Little M. That is the kind of stuff they are built for. To me it is just a gamble that is not worth taking. Well, at least it is a gamble I wouldn't be willing to take with my money............

We will be installing a 300 HP plate system on an engine that we know made at the least 550hp in and installing the proper fuel system and chassis work needed to run 9.50's real soon. We are going to video the entire build up and then testing. The very last pass will be the blaster because the car will not be 9.50 legal, but, we really don't care. Having the wheels up car going straight is what I can do very easily. The video and the time slip will tell it all. You may need to run quicker than 12.50 for sure when I am done here pretty quickly.

Point being, the SHP block with stock Fel Pro Head gaskets will be using a real 800 hp of Nitrous, the worst kinda of power available, and we will see if it blow up or something stupid can happen to the block. I am sure with a 4.125" and the splayed caps, even though they are 3/8 will handle the power with no problems. GO DART SHP?

Awesome Bill
08-03-2010, 10:53 AM
As with any type of racing, there is always going to be many ways to skin a cat. We have built N/A engines that fly but of course are very expensive and most can't wing it. Right now we have the fastest N/A 496 SBC CFE SBX headed engine going. 4.59 #159.7 in the 1/8 with an old 64 Chevy Nova, powerglide, 9" Spragless and 4.56 gear. When anyone gets that close, tell them we got more, that was 3 years ago. We just finished a real 23 SBC 434 that pulled 817hp with very bad dyno testing conditions and more likely to have around 840 with some decent weather. Rex has an altered and he is actually faster than all the BBC RM and other brand engines at the track. So we will be 7.40's real soon when he gets his suspension figured out and we can put some fuel back in the engine when we get some good air.

I can take a normal run of the mill engine like we have done for a customer, put the plate system on it and run 9.50's. You can say what you want about Nitrous and blown or turbo's, but you choose your way you want to run. As with the customers engine, like I said before, put your engine in it and lets see what it can do under those conditions. It would be a dog for sure and most likely run worst.

Does not mean a thing about the engine, it just proves if your given power and your car or yourself can't handle it, your engine will be blamed.

In this case, I am going to take the DART SHP block, put 700 total HP to it and run some killer 9's. AWESOME GLIDE (2) SPPED,MAYBE A TH350 W/ A BRAKE, CAL TRACKS, ROLL BAR, ANTI-ROLL BAR, PLATE SYSTEM, FUEL SYSTEM, FRONT END LIMITERS, FRONT SWAY BAR and that is it. 1 month till racing it will be running well into the 9's. The first pass out will be just as easy as the last pass. Out of the box, I will have the car on the bumper. Done it and going to do it again.

2 points, SHP block will handle the power and more, the car properly done will apply the power and run the #.

I always conform to the customer and his budget with the best priced package and the biggest band for the buck for him and me. So for this customer to run well into the 9's will be very satisfying and not just talk.

ash
10-12-2010, 06:54 AM
good read ..
the GM 010 block i used for several years, was grout filled , and 4 bolt cast caps.
the engine was twin turbo'ed , with 61mm turbonetics.

even with a super safe tune, ( read no cad burnt off the plugs, ) , the bearings always came out trashed. The main caps looked like a alloy rod ''jaw type' parting line... with heaps of metal transfer.
ARP studs, coated bearings etc.. still did not fix the main tunnel moving around.

Probaly spent more $$$ on sump gaskets , and main bearings than beer for a year or soo :)
the oem block went best of 7.2 @ 191 in my altered.. dozens of sub 7.4 passes
the DART baby runs 6.6's @ 205 +

once we went to the DART little M block....alll the main cap dancing wernt away :p

world of difference from the oem stuff...
if the SHP is half as good as the little M , it is a real bargin in maintance dollars..

regards
ash

Awesome Bill
10-29-2010, 10:34 AM
good read ..
the GM 010 block i used for several years, was grout filled , and 4 bolt cast caps.
the engine was twin turbo'ed , with 61mm turbonetics.

even with a super safe tune, ( read no cad burnt off the plugs, ) , the bearings always came out trashed. The main caps looked like a alloy rod ''jaw type' parting line... with heaps of metal transfer.
ARP studs, coated bearings etc.. still did not fix the main tunnel moving around.

Probaly spent more $$$ on sump gaskets , and main bearings than beer for a year or soo :)
the oem block went best of 7.2 @ 191 in my altered.. dozens of sub 7.4 passes
the DART baby runs 6.6's @ 205 +

once we went to the DART little M block....alll the main cap dancing wernt away :p

world of difference from the oem stuff...
if the SHP is half as good as the little M , it is a real bargin in maintance dollars..

regards
ash

Exactly what I was talking about. Can it be done, yes, just because it can don't mean you should. When it breaks going that fast, usually your cleaning up more than oil, water and some race car parts if you know what I mean.

Awesome Bill
10-29-2010, 10:38 AM
We will be installing a 300 HP plate system on an engine that we know made at the least 550hp in and installing the proper fuel system and chassis work needed to run 9.50's real soon. We are going to video the entire build up and then testing. The very last pass will be the blaster because the car will not be 9.50 legal, but, we really don't care. Having the wheels up car going straight is what I can do very easily. The video and the time slip will tell it all. You may need to run quicker than 12.50 for sure when I am done here pretty quickly.

Point being, the SHP block with stock Fel Pro Head gaskets will be using a real 800 hp of Nitrous, the worst kinda of power available, and we will see if it blow up or something stupid can happen to the block. I am sure with a 4.125" and the splayed caps, even though they are 3/8 will handle the power with no problems. GO DART SHP?

Update, Jeffs Nova is complete and now a chrome moly 8.50 legal drop dead gorgeous full front to back roll cage is installed. Custom killer swing out bars for the lady and gent to easily get in and out along with being able to open and close the doors. Anti roll bar, custom 15 gallon fuel cell tucked in neatly between the back 2 bars.

Not one burn mark in the killer interior head liner, we removed everything else. The car is back into the shop getting the new bar painted. Next step is putting the updated engine back in with all those goodies. Testing is hopefully in 2 weeks. Will keep you posted and will also take some pics just to light things up!

snakeeater1968
11-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Update, Jeffs Nova is complete and now a chrome moly 8.50 legal drop dead gorgeous full front to back roll cage is installed. Custom killer swing out bars for the lady and gent to easily get in and out along with being able to open and close the doors. Anti roll bar, custom 15 gallon fuel cell tucked in neatly between the back 2 bars.

Not one burn mark in the killer interior head liner, we removed everything else. The car is back into the shop getting the new bar painted. Next step is putting the updated engine back in with all those goodies. Testing is hopefully in 2 weeks. Will keep you posted and will also take some pics just to light things up!

Motor has been dyno'd and is being installed in the car today....will post the Dyno numbers with the time slips for those that are interested. They will be posted on my profile. along with the dyno video and video of the car going down the track. If there is room and people care, I'll show picks step by step of the build.

Its getting close, can't wait to hear it fire up and go down the track!!!

will see how much power this SBC DART SHP block can make and handle. I'm sure more then what I can throw at it N/A....we are already over what dart recomends for the block N/A will see how it holds up with a 300 shot.