SBF Iron Eagle Heads

[Murff]

I am considering pitching my World Roush 200 heads for a set of Iron Eagles, mainly due to the chamber configuration.

I have a .040 351W, not a stroker, filled block, that I am going to run on alcohol with an Enderle Bugcatcher and 80A-0 pump. This is in a '68 Falcon that I am building as period correct for the '69 - '70 time period for D/Gas (current index). This is all fired by a Vertex magneto. Since there were no SBF aluminum heads back then I want to stay with an iron head.

I had ordered a set of 13:1 11cc dome pistons and when they arrived they were shaped for a stock head, not the Worlds. So I will (try to) sell the pistons and start over. That is why I am considering the Iron eagles. At least one piston vendor told me that their piston would fit the Pro-1 heads.

So, to my questions:

1) Are there any particular considerations for ordering a piston for these heads when I am looking for 13:1 CR?

2) Will spark plug / header fitment be an issue? I have Hooker Super Comps.

3) Will these heads handle a .650 lift solid roller cam?

4) Where do these heads stop making power?

And, anything else Dart may suggest.

Thanks

Murff

[Murff]

Well, now I feel like a bit of a doof for my original post.

I just did a side by side (photo) comparison of the World Roush 200 chamber and the Dart Iron Eagle, 1 pic from the World catalog and one from the Dart site. There is no difference between them, as far as the chambers are concerned. Could be the same head.

So it would appear I am SOL when it comes to an aftermarket iron head with big dome pistons.

[Murff]

Ok, maybe I'm going at this wrong. Let's try this. I know my current pistons will not fit my World heads, and does not appear that they will work with the IE heads either.

Focus is now on the Pro-1 heads.

Here is a pic of the Pro-1 chamber:

http://www.murphysromance.com/Images/Pro-1%20Chamber.jpg

Here is a pic of my piston:

http://www.murphysromance.com/Images/Piston.jpg

Can someone at Dart let me know if these two items are compatible?

[Awesome Bill]

mock it up and check for yourself is the easiest way, no one will be able to tell you what your after. It looks like a match to me and if not and it hits somewhere or is close, cut it off. Use your head gasket. Your stock block will leave you @ 700 hp unless you splayed cap it! The bottom ends are very weak and a girdle does absolutely nothing.

[Murff]

Well yeah, mock it up. Good advice Bill. Problem is I already have $800 into a set of pistons that will not work with what I have. Putting out another $1000 for bare heads on a 'maybe' is not going to happen.

That's why I came here looking for a little insight.

[want-a-be]

Murff,

Bill is just trying to help. What he is saying is mock up with what you have now and maybe you can massage what you have into working. If he isn't then, sorry Bill for misinterpreting your last post. This post on another thread of this site has some pics of what I think Bill is getting at.

http://www.dartheads.com/dartboard/showthread.php?t=120

If nothing else I think the new Keith Black forged Pistons fit the Dart heads rather nicely.

Thanks, Don :cool:

[Murff]

Don -

Thanks for the reply. I probably did come off a bit snotty in my reply to Bill, sorry Bill. My frustration level is rising rapidly. Not with Dart at all, they really have no part in this at all. I am seeking to resolve a problem with a scurious piston vendor that did not deliver what I ordered and now tell me "No return on custom order".

I started the thread under the initial impression that the Iron Eagles had a different chamber than the Worlds. In reviewing side be side photos of the two I find there is little to no difference in them at all.

I looked at the thread you referenced but the photos were of no help at all. Reading the text, I understand some 'softening' of the dome was performed. If you look at the IE chambers and the shape of my piston dome you will see that the area above the spark plug is the point of problem. There would be such a tremendous amount of material that would have to be milled (I don't think hand grinding would suffice) that I have to believe the charcteristics of the piston would be heavily affected.

I am working with the piston vendor for a refund but they are slow to come around. If I can accomplish this then I can re-order from a more reputable (honorable?) vendor and use the heads I have. If not, then I have to try and find a head I can use that will require as little massaging of the dome as possible. That is what brought me to ask the question about the Pro-1 heads. They look to be about the closest fit I have found, and I have looked at Canfield, AFR, TW, etc.

I do find it intersting that no head vendor speaks to the type of piston that will work with a given head. I guess in this day of 'strokers-in-a-box' and 200mph twin turbo pump gas 'street cars' no one really is concerned about the nostalgia guys trying to do what used to be done.

Again, I apologize if I came off like a dickhead. I am a full 6 weeks behind my build schedule and I do not have a complete rotating assembly. BTW, my piston saga began in mid December. So I have been grumpy for a few months now.

Murff

[want-a-be]

Hey man...no problem at all. We are actually wanting to help each other out as best we can. How tall are your domes on those pistons?

Don WCRE :cool:

[Murff]

Thanks, man. Help is certainly what I need.

Don't have a mic in front of me but they are approx. 9/16 of an inch from the flat to the crown of the dome next to the spark plug notch, give or take 1/32. Pretty large.

Here's a pic of a stock chamber, which the pistons do fit perfectly.
http://www.murphysromance.com/Images/Stock%20Chamber.jpg

Here's the Iron Eagle / World chamber.
http://www.murphysromance.com/Images/World%20Chamber.jpg

Pretty big difference. Piston is supposed to deliver a 13:1 cr with a 64cc chamber which is what mine are. Just shaped 'different'.

[want-a-be]

yea...I see what your saying. I sent you a private message. To access it look near the top right and click on Private message to view it.

Thanks, Don :cool: WCRE

[Murff]

Quick update, the piston vendo has finally elected to do the right thing and modify the domes to fit my existing heads. They will cover al freight costs and will expedite the order so that I can get my parts back 'fairly' soon.

Thanks for the letting me have some bandwidth to explore options. We will be looking to Dart for heads when it is time to step our program up a bit.

[want-a-be]

Glad to hear it all is working out for you bud.

Don, :cool:

WCRE

[Awesome Bill]

This is nothing new, I meant exactly what I said. Mock it up, find out where its rubbing, massage it and your good to go. Don't be in such a hurry, nothing fits, get used to it. As far as your piston company, I don't use them just for that reason. Why make a piston then have to cut it or the head. They know what combustion chamber your using with a 23° sbc. If they don't after this time, they should close the doors. Their BBC stuff is the same way. Wiseco and Je are killer for fits. Cheaper 2 and it is the same 2618 or 4032 material. We have burnt the Ross stuff up just like the others. They do not have magic pistons that are better. Paper don't refuse ink. If it gets hot it will go out the exhaust port.

NO damage done or feelings hurt, we have to remove that area of the head all the time, it will flow a little better with that bumpy stuff out of there anyway. Good luck