Valve Seals

[John 69 Camaro]

Hi, I just joined the forum and was wondering if anyone can tell me the best Valve Seals to us on the Dart PRO 1 Aluminum Small Block Chevy Heads # 11310010P. Thanks, John

[Awesome Bill]

for street use, we use a solid rubber like GM uses on all their late model heads. Its puple and black and I get them from U.S. Seals and Precision Engine Parts. Race engines we use none most of the time with new heads. If the customer wants seals, we use the D1711 11/32x.530 PC white seal.

[John 69 Camaro]

Thanks Bill. Since I purchased the car 'm not sure if they installed seals. I have the valve covers off, so is there an easy way to tell without removing the springs? John

[Awesome Bill]

Yeah, just look in there when the valve is closed, if you see nothing, they may have just the oring type, which is fine, it seals at the bottom of the retainer on a 2 groove valve. Its really all you need. If you don't see them and it does not smoke, the guides are in good shape or you have the oring type.

[John 69 Camaro]

Thanks Bill. The heads are on a 383 Stroker that has 10.5:1 Compression Ration, a Flat Tappet Solid Lifter Comp Cam with .555 Lift and 262 Duration @ 0.050. I am running an Edelbrock 3500 Pro-Flo EFI. I was having some trouble reaching 180 degree water temperture at the EFI Temperature Sensor, so the car was running rich. The sensor is in the intake and the sensor for the Mechanical Sports Comp Gauge is between #1 & #3 cylinders in the head. The Sports Comp Gauge reads 180-200 and the EFI Sensor in colder weather reads 165.

When I pulled the plugs (AC Delco FLIRS) I notice they were dry carbon fouled and #1 looked a little wet that I determined was fuel fouled. The GM guys said it was oil fouled and to install new valve seals. There isn't any smoke at start-up but I notice a little during deceleration at high speed. What's your thought regarding the smoke at deceleration?

I'm in the process of getting a second opinion on whether #1 is fuel or oil fouled and I'm also installing a set of ACCEL 0146S, which are shorty's because of header clearance. The ACCEL plugs are also a little hotter than the AC Delco. I'm also installing a 195 thermostat to see if that increase the EFI sensor reading.

Any advice you have will be appreciated.

John

[lun40119]

I had smoke on decel on a chassis dyno, and it was the seals. I goofed and didn't measure retainer to seal on my last set of heads and smashed all of them:o......the way it was explained to me is vacuum, when you close the plates, the engine tries to pull from anyplace it can find.......in my case it was the smashed seals that let oil in. jmo..............good luck

[Awesome Bill]

When the trottle is closed and both valves are closed and it smokes, the rings are allowing the oil left on the cylinder wall to be sucked into the chamber and ignited. This usually comes from oil that is a heavy weight, aka a lot of liquid plastic to keep it thick under heat!

I would change over to Rotella 10w30. The more you use it the better is will get. You have to remember that GM for years used a little valve retainer sealed oring that kept their engines from smoking. Not much there with a engine run well over 10 years and no smoke.

Valve guide seals do very little if anything. If your running syn oil, get rid of it. It is garbage and helps to unload the rings with all of its ¼-25% polymere additive. That stuff will gum up anything and cause rings to stick and a ton of bad stuff. We do not use it until the rings are well sealed and only use very lightweight stuff. We also change is often. It does not like heat @ all. Try this and see if it goes away. Under power, if the engine does not smoke or use oil, you should be o.k.

[John 69 Camaro]

Thanks Guys.

Bill,

I estimate the engine has around 3000 miles on it but I'm not sure how hard the previous owner rode it.

I am using Castrol GYX 10W-40 conventional oil. The guys a Comp recommended Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil or the Shella Rotella T Brand. They also recommed adding a can of GM EOS. I have some Castro GTX 10W-30 and Exxon Superflo 10W-30 but I'm not sure if they're as good as the others. Do you think I should try them or just go to the VR-1 or Rotella? Also, what do you think of the VR-1?

Changing topics, what do you think of my idea of changing to a 195 Thermostat from the 180? Do you think it will cause any problems with the engine since it should raise the temperature to between 195 and 215?

John

[lun40119]

In my case Bill, I am sure it was the seals.............it doesn't do it now with the same rotator but different heads and seals.

[want-a-be]

Thanks Guys.

Changing topics, what do you think of my idea of changing to a 195 Thermostat from the 180? Do you think it will cause any problems with the engine since it should raise the temperature to between 195 and 215?

John


Think you'll like the 195 thermostat. Might consider moving the temp sensor thats for the computer though. Depending on where it's mounted, I've seen it get air around them there and cause false readings. Usually it's when they are mounted in the water neck going to the radiator.

Thanks, Don :cool:

WCRE

[Awesome Bill]

The VR1 oils, 10w30 and lighter are pretty good stuff non syn in your case. I would just use the 10w30 Rot. As far as the temp, all EFI engines have to run @ 195 or they will run rich. The temp sender is not affected by any air flowing around it, the reading comes from the water temp acorss the sensor that is inside. The only thing outside is the connection. The sender should be in the right or left side port in the cylinder head and this should read anywhere from 220-235°. If your efi is stock, keep the 195 in it. If its modified, you can run the 180, watch the cats, they will or can get overheated from excessive fuel being introduced into the exhaust from an engine too rich! they will glow @ night time.

[Awesome Bill]

valve guide seals do not leak oil into the combustion chamber off the trottle and most times the intake guide would have to have over .004 wear to leak oil into the cylinder. Exhaust valve guide seals could not do this because they are pressuized in the exhaust stroke and have nothing to do with the intake stroke. Now, once again, if a big puff of blue smoke comes out on a start, you most likely have seal problems. I don't know about your particular case, but anything is possible, but probable is a different story. We run no valve guide seals @ all on new heads and have no smoking problems on or off the gas. You make get a slight puff of blue smoke on a start but nothing down track on or off the gas. What ever works for you, thats what I would do. jmo

[John 69 Camaro]

Don, The sensor is mounted in the intake next to the thermostat housing; however, it's in direct line with the electric fan. I guess I could wrap a piece of heat shield around the sensor, which should keep and fan air from affecting the reading; however, I'm not sure if it will work. The Edelbrock manual for the EFI recommends a 195 thermostat, so I may give that a try a see what happens. John

Bill, I was checking the Rotella website and I can only find 15W-40 in a non-synthetic for the Rotella T. Based on your above response, I assume that weight is too heavy. John

[want-a-be]

That should be good placement of the water temp sensor. I wasn't meaning that the out side air flow could affect the temp. I was refering to possible air in the coolant flow allowing false reading back to your computer. I've had this problem happen to me when I had it mounted in the water neck.

Thanks, Don :cool:

WCRE

[John 69 Camaro]

Bill,

The smoke I saw on deceleration while following behind was a clear white. I didn't notice any blue. Is this a different problem?

By the way, I click onto your website and I was impressed with your set-up. I noticed that your location on the forum is in Ocean City and the shop is in Selbyville. If it's okay with you, I wouldn't mind taking a cruise one of these days to see your operation. I'm in the process of putting the car back together and hopefully I'll get it on the road sometime in May. If your good with a visit, what is the best way to reach you? My email is john-gula@comcast.net, so you can send me a response there if you like.

John

[Awesome Bill]

no, you can use that, I just like to use the lightest oil possible around 10w. Thats what the bottom # means when hot. When hot your multi grade oil will not go below that # @ 195. So all those multi grades are really the bottom # hot. Who cares what it is cold, I run the engine when its hot. The 1030w is a little harder to find. I do like the VR1 10-30, but it is to pricey. Very o.k. to use though.

[lun40119]

Nervermind this post I messed it up sorry

[lun40119]

This a copy of Bills Post from another Thread

The delvac is the same stuff. I do not use any synthecis. They all start with 25% polymere. JUNK filler. It is o.k to use it but it will unload the ring, take away from good ring seal @ higher rpms and cause bad things to happen. We use the 10w30 Rotella or the 15/40 if the customer cries like a baby because he is not using his 50w. The engine oil additives, or supplemnets are nothing but zinc, sulfur and a couple other extreme pressure agents. They are what the epa is taking out. The VR1 10/30 oil is no better. Its good oil but is not as good as the Rotella imo. We use the Pure Power 10/10 in all our engines when dyno testing along with Kelly's billet stainless steel oil filter, we actually make power with his oil filters when the bypass is plugged. Paper will not filter oil. All this stuff is pricey Pricey but so is bearings, rings etc. 10w30 Rot is something we come up with and works very well. 260/268 /106ls .630/.630, nothing special.

What did you mean by saying that the VR1 is no better. Is it good or bad, in your opinion? I run it in a pretty steep flat tappet mech. I haven't had a problem.

[Awesome Bill]

Well you cheated, different heads now can mean that you have guides that are within specs. You have to have a guide falling out to move oil down it on the intake. .001-.002" clearence will not cause smoke without seals.