Stump puller

[greenpiece]

408", Dart Pro 1 170 heads, hydraulic roller cam, 1.6 rockers, Trick Flow `R` Series intake with 30# injectors, 75mm Accufab throttle body and matching MAF sensor calibrated to injector size, `93 5.0 Mustang ecu, 1 5/8" primary headers ( not sure of style eg; shorties, long tube, block huggers, tri-y, depends on what will fit `97 Ranger 4x4 p/u ) AOD trans w/ 1600 convertor, 2 spd reduction box ahead of NP 205 transfer case, 5:13 gears and 37" tires. Have not spec`d cam yet. It will be a dual pattern with .550 or so lift, short duration, and 112-114 degrees lobe separation. I am looking for +500 lb.ft. torque from 1800-3500 rpm. Horsepower is not a concern, I think the heads and injectors will be good for about 450 hp but the valve timing will limit it to about 425 or so. Trick Flow says 1500-6500 rpm for the intake, but the same one with 90mm throttle body opening is rated for 2000-75000 rpm. Both have the same cross sectional area in the runners. Runners are 13.3" long. Compression ration is 9.0:1 with reverse dome pistons. Might swap them for a smaller dish, maybe 9.5? This will be emissions legal ( sniff test ) in B.C. Canada. Hope it works cause the money has been spent! Any thoughts or comments on valve timing or other would be much appreciated.

[greenpiece]

thanks anyway

[af2]

Must be you're user name?:eek:

[want-a-be]

Must be you're user name?:eek:

I know it locked my keyboard up...lol :rolleyes:

Don

[greenpiece]

check the spelling. both my user name and the "you're" in your post,af2

[mudwiezer]

if you run into any ecu programming look up westers they are very helpfull on custom chips and getting fuel pressures right
i like comp xtreme 4x4 cams they have always been go to me for torque
sounds like it will throw a good wall of mud for sure

[want-a-be]

I'll give this a run, until I'm invited to a spelling bee or any grammatical critiquing that is. I'm not a big fan of the green peace group, or most of their way of thinking. Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I love to hunt them, wear their pelts, and eat them,...they are very tasty.

But enough of that. I think you'll be ok with about 224° of duration on the intake, add another 4° of duration to what ever intake you choose. Since you're going to be running an EFI I would not run less then 112° of lobe separation,...maybe 114°. It should keep your vacuum for the EFI. You've got the lift picked out, so there you go.

But I don't think it will rev to the "75000 rpm" as you have stated in your first post. I could be wrong though.;)

Don

[greenpiece]

I'll give this a run, until I'm invited to a spelling bee or any grammatical critiquing that is. I'm not a big fan of the green peace group, or most of their way of thinking. Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I love to hunt them, wear their pelts, and eat them,...they are very tasty.

But enough of that. I think you'll be ok with about 224° of duration on the intake, add another 4° of duration to what ever intake you choose. Since you're going to be running an EFI I would not run less then 112° of lobe separation,...maybe 114°. It should keep your vacuum for the EFI. You've got the lift picked out, so there you go.

But I don't think it will rev to the "75000 rpm" as you have stated in your first post. I could be wrong though.;)

Don

Not a fan of the green peace group myself. Chased one out of my yard once who was annoying me, as he took off down the street I heard him swearing/nattering something about "should have known not to try anyone who drives a car like that." I cracked up and he was gone.
Tree-hugger myself, I really like to look at them, kill them, make things out of them, and burn them. Maybe one day I'll plant one.
Don't think the motor will ever see the high side of 4500 rpm. The 7500 I mentioned is what TrickFlow claims for the other variation of the manifold I've got. The only diff is the size of the throttle body opening. I e-mailed them with questions but the reply I got made me think that it came from an uninterested or minimum wage type with a Q & A sheet.
Mine is 'rated' 1500-6500.
I should quit 'what iffing' about the manifold cause I've got it, I'm gonna use it, it will make decent power. Not like I'm needing to cut a 100th of a sec off my time slip.
224* @ .050 on the intake is more than I was leaning towards but I like the dual pattern like you suggested. My guess is that with short duration I might be ok with a tiny bit tighter than 114* ? Just a guess, appreciate the input.
I think I have enough cylinder head for what I,m trying to do. First set of Dart heads, the amount of flow info they post is hmm, somewhat limited? but I understand that flow is only a part of what makes power, particularly in an application like mine, so I will trust my instincts and Darts reputation and as you suggested, Mudwiezer, gonna sling some mud.

[greenpiece]

if you run into any ecu programming look up westers they are very helpfull on custom chips and getting fuel pressures right
i like comp xtreme 4x4 cams they have always been go to me for torque
sounds like it will throw a good wall of mud for sure

just checked out their website, looks like they have hands-on experience, thanks

[want-a-be]

If you want less duration that's fine, but I wouldn't go less then 118° @ .050" and add the 4° on the exhaust. I have put that cam in a lot of tow vehicles that loved it. I would still think about the 112° lsa. EFI is very dependent on the vacuum.

Good luck and sorry for the attitude on the name. That group of people are nutz imo. They tend to strike a nerve, and won't get my help in any way.

Don

[af2]

.
Mine is 'rated' 1500-6500.
I should quit 'what iffing' about the manifold cause I've got it,
224* @ .050 on the intake is more than I was leaning towards but I like the dual pattern like you suggested. My guess is that with short duration I might be ok with a tiny bit tighter than 114
I think I have enough cylinder head for what I,m trying to do. but I understand that flow is only a part of what makes power, particularly in an application like mine, so I will trust my instincts and Darts reputation and as you suggested,

224 is pretty small. The 114 is a must after messing with tighter that hated the idle.
Flow is not King and is only a reference point to totally confuse!

Last!
Sorry about the first post. But it did get your attension? (spelling) :p

[greenpiece]

224 is pretty small. The 114 is a must after messing with tighter that hated the idle.
Flow is not King and is only a reference point to totally confuse!

Last!
Sorry about the first post. But it did get your attension? (spelling) :p

It did, but no worries, all's well that ends well. About the short duration- I am going to have a 1600 stall converter in this thing ( aod without lock-up capability ) and 50 mph will be close to 2000 rpm ( trying to avoid heating of atf from convertor slip and want good engine braking ) I suppose that I'm thinking of overlap when I think I should be able to tighten up the lobe seperation with a shorter duration. Bad, bad old fashioned idea, but less seperation = stronger midrange ( good stuff ) which I think will be around 2000-2500 on this motor. However, as you pointed out, idle quality will likely suffer, and then I will not be happy, especially if it interferes with an emisions pass
btw, I'm not really a stickler ( whatever that means ) on spelling, but I guess I'll have to be from here on,.

[greenpiece]

If you want less duration that's fine, but I wouldn't go less then 118° @ .050" and add the 4° on the exhaust. I have put that cam in a lot of tow vehicles that loved it. I would still think about the 112° lsa. EFI is very dependent on the vacuum.

Good luck and sorry for the attitude on the name. That group of people are nutz imo. They tend to strike a nerve, and won't get my help in any way.

Don

that group of people? not getting religeous here but they are a menace to salvation and a threat to mankind. imho

[want-a-be]

that group of people? not getting religeous here but they are a menace to salvation and a threat to mankind. imho

I agree.

Remember the old 327ci 350hp cams. Back in the day the were my favorite cams. They had 224° 224° @ .050" with a very short lift of .445". LSA was 112° or 114° can't remember exactly. That cam was a stump puller in anything I put it in back then and had very good street manners. Great vacuum and very good idle. It's a pretty big influence on my choices of cams when I choose specs for a cam like you are describing.

Don

[af2]

That 408" with 224@.050 will be a puller for sure. Keeping the L/S wide will still give a stout sound without messing with the Idle too much.

[greenpiece]

Comp 266HR 210/215 114* 1200-5200 "good OEM replacement"

Comp 270HR 215/220 114* 1500-5500 "gears/slight idle"

Comp 281HR 220/224 112* 2000-5500 "5spd or 2500 convertor"

Remember-1600 convertor
My only experience with a Comp cam was a hydraulic flat tappet in a 432"FE and their comment on it was "works with stock convertor." They were right on the money. After a 2 year build of the car I had to swap the convertor for 2500 piece 'cause it couldn't jerk the tires ( 9" wide street radials ) loose on cold pavement. With the new convertor a half hearted tap of the throttle produced a the appropriate sound from the afore mentioned tires. With a 10" DOT drag radial it pulled a 12.98. This was a very mild motor in a heavy car for the wife to get groceries with.

I realize these cams are from the 5.0 page of their catalog, ( they don't list much for the 5.8 ) and more cubes will tame a cam somewhat. I know there are people out there that are cringing at the idea of using a Comp cam in a decent motor, But the brand I would choose doesn't make one for this application. I believe that their quality ( Comp ) is decent these days.
Btw, not trying to be argumentative ( hope I spelled that rite, lonsl ) I do appriciate all of the input.

[af2]

Comp 266HR 210/215 114* 1200-5200 "good OEM replacement"

Comp 270HR 215/220 114* 1500-5500 "gears/slight idle"

Comp 281HR 220/224 112* 2000-5500 "5spd or 2500 convertor"

Remember-1600 convertor
My only experience with a Comp cam was a hydraulic flat tappet in a 432"FE and their comment on it was "works with stock convertor." They were right on the money. After a 2 year build of the car I had to swap the convertor for 2500 piece 'cause it couldn't jerk the tires ( 9" wide street radials ) loose on cold pavement. With the new convertor a half hearted tap of the throttle produced a the appropriate sound from the afore mentioned tires. With a 10" DOT drag radial it pulled a 12.98. This was a very mild motor in a heavy car for the wife to get groceries with.

I realize these cams are from the 5.0 page of their catalog, ( they don't list much for the 5.8 ) and more cubes will tame a cam somewhat. I know there are people out there that are cringing at the idea of using a Comp cam in a decent motor, But the brand I would choose doesn't make one for this application. I believe that their quality ( Comp ) is decent these days.
Btw, not trying to be argumentative ( hope I spelled that rite, lonsl ) I do appriciate all of the input.

You added 100ci to the mix. A 224 will be at the bottom on a 302.

[greenpiece]

You added 100ci to the mix. A 224 will be at the bottom on a 302.

good point

[want-a-be]

I'd go with the 281HR. What was the lift on that thing again? That 400 inches will gobble up that 220° of duration. Ought to consider the extra 4° on the intake if possible.

If you want to try a different cam grinder you could call cam-motion. I have had very good luck with them over the years. Tell em Don from Wayne County sent you.

Keep us informed.

Don

[greenpiece]

281HR lift - .512/.533

[greenpiece]

Comp lobes for custom cams include-
218* @,512
218* @.570
224* @.555
224* @.576
Will be calling Cam Motion next week.