A good BBC?

[ssbully]

I was wondering if a GM BBC 427 tall deck was worth getting? It is bored 60 over, o-ringed, and clearanced for a stroker crank (520 ci is what I was told???) with new cam bearings. Block # 473478.

I would like to build it to put in a street 68 Camaro, 10:1 or so with a little of the funny stuff.

[Awesome Bill]

I make a 555, (aka triple nickle), out of that block with a 4¾" crank and also the 525 with a 4½" crank, these are my true torque monster series. They make a ton of torque and run well. I have only had one split the cylinder wall @ .060 or 4.310 bore, was not pretty. But filled, I have used them to 4.440" making a killer 588 with the Callies 4¾ crank. The engine runs very well in an old Nostalgia dragster with Hilborn 3" stack set up. The only one I done and filled it to the top. Water threw the heads only. So for what your doing, yes. Watch the funny stuff, the mains @ around 1000 hp have been known to crack. I have run them as much as 1200hp with the funny stuff and done o.k. for a time. They all wound up splitting the cylinders if they were not filled. Those were the good old days before Dart Blocks.

[ssbully]

Thanks for the info Bill. I am sure it will live a good life no more than I will throw @ it... Current owner is asking $500 for it, does this sound like it is in the ballpark?

[Awesome Bill]

I just had a gentleman bring me one to sell me and it was junk. All the main caps had been spun and they drove a punch down beside the register wall to move it over and re tightened the caps up. It destroyed the cap register. He want $500.00 for it also. Could be a good deal, could be the worst deal you ever got. Have it checked out by a good machine shop. Spend the $100 to have it checked. I would pay $500.00 for it if it was o.k.

[Elkyman]

Hey Bill,

Got some questions for ya concerning this 525 deal and a 427 tall deck block. I have a brand new tall deck, virgin bores and unfinished, freeze plugs and cam bearings in it and 4 bolt mains, now here is where it get's really cool, this is one of many blocks out there a guy on E-bay was selling(sharky) I believe was his user name, anyway, the Bluebird Bus company had contracted GM to build "X" amount of blocks with much thicker bores so they could get more than 3 rebuilds per block, and I know that my block is one of these blocks, but I seem to have misplaced the cast #, anyhoo, if I wanted to make mine a 525, it would contain a 4.250 crank inter. balan., and maybe some alum rods, just not too sold on them due to there short life vs. cost ratio, but I would love to have a fast rpmin big block to try out. If nothing else, some good Manely or Crower strong H-beams should work, and some JE slugs, now, what kind of head from Dart would make this come alive? Don't tell me about CFE, I already know they work great, and my budget is limited over time, but if I have a target of parts to get, I pick them up one piece at a time, or if the right price deal comes around. But which Dart heads would give me that 1000 hp level??? Would the Pro 345's do it or more like the 360's? I would think the 360's would be a little big, but on the other hand, if I run a tunnel ram and twin carbs, it may like this combo, but I would say smaller is better, and BES(Bischoff) seems to be putting out some strong pieces for the NMCA Pro Stock class like for Jamie Stanton, Miachle, Langer, and others, and I want something close to this power range if possible with out going over say $15k and I know it can be done, but keeping within the guidelines of reliability, and valvetrain control and rpm range, it may climb above this price tag. The other concern is the intake manifold, what is so special about this "Sniper" intake manifold from Profiler????? , is it worth the cash to use with a 525 to get max torque out of it?, remember, I have a 3680lb car to move with me in it so torque is my target. I am also thinking a 1250 reworked to a little over 1300cfm is in order also to feed this cuin., your thoughts?????? It will have a Jesel belt drive, and I have the Jesel shaft rockers for my Dart Pro 325's now, will those work with the larger heads, or is another kit of those needed also???? Roller cam of course, and I was thinking of roller cam bearings, but man, that price tag hurts too:eek: a standard roller, but a big one with the 7/4 F/O swap will be more affordable, so let's go with that for now. Will a cam profile over .800 fit the stock cam bore and clear the rod bolts???, may be real close and tight with alum rods I bet!!!

I guess I just need a bad a$$ 525 cuin. and use what I have for intake and carb to start, I have the Edelbrock Super Victor Jr. tall deck intake and my head guy did a good job of making my combo work well up to 8000 rpm's and to date my Elky has hit 9.81 @ 137, and I would like to reach low 9's to around 8.90, but I may need more engine to reach that et.

So, give me your thoughts and I will reply after I chew your info over, and see how much it will take($) to make it happen. Thanks Bill and we will chat more later.

John

Ohh, one more thing, with my little 505 inch engine, if my head guy ports and puts his magic on the heads AND, intake, how much do you think I could possibly pick up???? he is extremely good. Also, my chassis is legal to 8.50 and so am I:D Ok, I'm done now:)

I don't want tog et caught up with all the different valve angeled heads, spread bore heads and all that taler cam bore and big bore spacing stuff, just too much for my wallet:(

[want-a-be]

How's it going ElkyMan...been a while.

Don

WCRE

[Awesome Bill]

I don't know exactly about the where abouts on those blocks, but Nickels Performance, when I used to use them, sold me about 25 of those blocks and I have only had 1 break a cylinder wall on the dyno, that was .100 over, 4.350 bore and was not filled. I don't know about how really much thicker they are, but I did a 4.440 bore with the 4.5 inch crank, put a Hilborn 3" stack injection on it with a good set of 320 RHS heads on it and it went 996 @ 7000. I don't know how you come up with this really high rpm stuff without a killer set of heads? I know you can do it but you don't have to. These engines make killer torque. I also put the 4¾ crank in these and make the 555. So I would keep the bore to 4.310 and anything over, fill the block. You should be able to get 950 out of the 4½ crank engine with the 4.310 bore with no problems with aluminum rods and be not even close with the rod bolt issue. Roller Cam Bearings is a waste of good money and not a good return. If you do go with 55 mm cam bearings, then pay the cash for that. That will help with the cam core being ridgid. HTH

[want-a-be]

Roller Cam Bearings is a waste of good money and not a good return. If you do go with 55 mm cam bearings, then pay the cash for that. That will help with the cam core being ridgid. HTH

I totally agree with you Bill.

Don

WCRE

[Elkyman]

I don't know exactly about the where abouts on those blocks, but Nickels Performance, when I used to use them, sold me about 25 of those blocks and I have only had 1 break a cylinder wall on the dyno, that was .100 over, 4.350 bore and was not filled. I don't know about how really much thicker they are, but I did a 4.440 bore with the 4.5 inch crank, put a Hilborn 3" stack injection on it with a good set of 320 RHS heads on it and it went 996 @ 7000. I don't know how you come up with this really high rpm stuff without a killer set of heads? I know you can do it but you don't have to. These engines make killer torque. I also put the 4¾ crank in these and make the 555. So I would keep the bore to 4.310 and anything over, fill the block. You should be able to get 950 out of the 4½ crank engine with the 4.310 bore with no problems with aluminum rods and be not even close with the rod bolt issue. Roller Cam Bearings is a waste of good money and not a good return. If you do go with 55 mm cam bearings, then pay the cash for that. That will help with the cam core being ridgid. HTH

Yep, that's what I have heard on the vine about the cam bearings, a whole lotta money spent to free up small amounts of resistance and drag.

Bill, I just mentioning to you what I'm buzzin thru the traps with my combo, maybe some timing adj. is in order, or a smaller numerical gear in the rear, but my heavy heap at 3680lbs.(now) hits 7900-8000 at the stripe and pulls like crazy, and I have noticed with the lower trans gear(1.80 vs. the 1.90) I had in it last year, it seems to be like a fuel engine, all used up at the strip!!!!, but if I pedal it, it is still strong and pulls right back on the feather into the floor:) the tires are 30 tall and the gear is a 4.88 set, maybe a 4.56?????? and I could use some more speed too!!!!

My heads are the Dart Pro 1 325 alum. heads and I 60 foot around 1.42-1.40 and it is so consistant and runs the number per my weather station and changing conditions, it really is a killer engine. Tall deck, 505, 4.350 bore with the Eagle 4.250 crank and Eagle H-beam rods and JE pistons with 13:1 comp., I wanted more comp., but that would have required fly cutting things.
I launch at 4000 and shift at 7000 and it seems to run well, but I want more:D

So, your saying, with a a 4.310, or, 4.350 bore, 4.500 stroke, and my heads, I could be close to that power range?, and what rod length works best with this????? I run a 6.800 long rod to come very close to the 427 rod ratio I wanted, and it is right there, but like you said, no need to buzz it that high, but I guess I need some more torque then, and I would love to have 60 ft's in the 1.30 range for sure, carry the front end out a little farther and be a little quicker. Are my 325's sufficent for the 525?
Also Bill, with my longer rod, does it sound right that it may like more ign. timing, say higher than 36 deg.????, that is where I'm at now, and when it was at 34 deg. it was on the edge of 10's, and now it runs 9.90's with it at 36. I guess I could see what it likes, but I only have a few passes before each race and to make changes like this, I like to have some passes in the book before I go racing. Also my cam is straight up for a setting, I also have a belt drive so adj. it will be pretty easy. Any suggestions??? What I will do is try the ign. timing next Fri. weather permitting at Norwalk, and see which way she goes, I am also going to play with the jets for my max mph as well, but not at the same time;) What kind of compression are you hitting with the 440's and the 4.500 stroker????

Thanks for your time also Bill, and info, it is priceless when time to test it is not available...
John

[Elkyman]

How's it going ElkyMan...been a while.

Don

WCRE

Hey Don, what's up?, ok, now refresh my memory could ya? I have been on so many different sites, I am gettin lost some days, and nights on who's who anymore!!!!:o what site are ya from?, the old Dart board maybe??????:(

ElkyJohn

[want-a-be]

Motor sports village is where you have PMed me in the past.

Don

WCRE

[Elkyman]

My bad, sorry Don, Fairfield, Ill, "TORQUE" website, now I remember:o
I see you found this site also!!!! lots of good info here for making real power for sure. Good to chat with you again. I am off watching the races from Bristol, Thunder Valley, NHRA weekend, be cool.

John