Setup Question

[cmoreb]

I have my short block done . is a 350 with 6inch forged rods , JE flat forged pistons , forged GM crank. I have a Oldsmoblie coutlass 3100 lb with a 350 transmission and a dana 44 rear axel, 30x10x15 drag slicks.

what setup will the best for 1/4 mile ? dart platinum or Pro 1? We only have 100 octane fuel and no nitrous. not any restriccions at all.
cam?
manifold?
headers?
converter?
carb?
etc...

thanks

Carlos More

[Trmnatr]

I have my short block done . is a 350 with 6inch forged rods , JE flat forged pistons , forged GM crank. I have a Oldsmoblie coutlass 3100 lb with a 350 transmission and a dana 44 rear axel, 30x10x15 drag slicks.

what setup will the best for 1/4 mile ? dart platinum or Pro 1? We only have 100 octane fuel and no nitrous. not any restriccions at all.
cam?
manifold?
headers?
converter?
carb?
etc...

thanks

Carlos More

If you can get your compression up to 12.5:1 which you should be able to do with Dart 49cc chambers, I would go with a 215cc intake runner with a Dart Intake, if you have never used a Dart intake you will see why we like them so much when you see them and run them - Best casting i have found PERIOD

Valves i would go with a 14° Super Flo Ferrea and a 24° tulip exhaust valve, seem to work pretty good in Dart heads unless you get heads put together from Dart

I would look for an ATI Treemaster that will go to about 5,500rpm on the transbrake and try to leave at 5,000rpm off the chip

You will be looking at 5.14 gears {roughly} with a 30" tire

Comp has a nice cam out but you will need 1.625" Manley H-11 Springs {shaft mounts needed} or the new PAC 1.55" {1226} {std rockers} that has the pressure of the other springs but is smaller and will drop in the spring pocket, USE an ID LOCATOR, if one is not available have one machined - You MUST run titanium retainers

I would shoot for 275-300 seat pressure on a Drag motor with this cam and stainless steel valves as the engine will twist well over 7,000rpm - Also you wont need alot of timing with the flat tops but you will have high compression - Probally 34-36° where 12.5:1 domed engines are running 38°-42° due to the domes

Cam is a Comp part # 12-865-9, specs as follows: {you can get a grind almost exactly like this from both Crane and Lunati}
307/317 @.020" 278/284 @.050" .684/.660 106° lobe seperation , Install the intake centerline at 106°-105°, no further advanced and a shift point of 7,200rpm but set your shift light to come on at 6,800rpm as you must account for reaction time to shift and driver delay

This camshaft will make power to 7,800rpm in your 350 engine, You must limit the RPM to 7,600rpm with most steel rods unless you have pistons that are 320-360 grams then your good to 8,000rpm and you can use every bit of that cam and cylinder head otherwise you must limit the RPM's

Wiseco flat tops are light {320-375grams}, not sure about JE's flat tops

Note: You must use a good lifter such as Comp with pressure feed oiling, Crane Ultra Pro, Crower

Use Heavy Wall pushrods, If you use shaft mounts run a 3/8" pushrod which will fit in the head with an offset rocker, udually a .350" offset intake rocker allows you to run a dual taper 3/8"-7/16" pushrod with at least a .125" wall

If your not looking for that much of an assault on the engine use the same set up but a different camshaft such as this following cam from crane
298/314 @.020" 268/276 @.050" .670/.625 106° but this cam works good at 103° ICL and will be good to 7,000rpm so you can use a 4,500rpm stall and about a 4.56 gear for starters

Either set up will need a 1.400" venturiii carburetor with a 1.75" butterfly which is custom from BLP or Pro Systems, This would be a cnc 950HP. Both of these combo's are for NO NITROUS. The first combo should push you about 10.70's with tuning {it will take some time to get her there}, maybe faster. The second combo would be good for 11.0-11.20's after tuning
Sounds like you have a sweet combo going on !! Just running Bracket or What?

[want-a-be]

I like your way of thinking there Trmnatr. With that lift though he needs to make sure to pay close attention to his piston to valve clearances. But since he is running the J&E pistons he ought to be ok.

Don

WCRE

[Trmnatr]

I like your way of thinking there Trmnatr. With that lift though he needs to make sure to pay close attention to his piston to valve clearances. But since he is running the J&E pistons he ought to be ok.

Don

WCRE

Thanks ! Its actually a combo we have ran in a customer's 350 but it was .060" over with Manley Light I Beams that are super stock legal because they are light and strong along with the light piston, we used Wiseco due to them only weighing around 330grams off the top of my head yet it still had the compression with the small chambers and didnt need fireslots in the domes because there were no domes !!

Yes, he should be ok as they put a pretty big pocket in them {JE}, usually 4.5-4.8cc reliefs which is pretty good, If not that is why Ronnie is at RebCo Machine :D

I think he would like the way it runs :eek: He will need to twist the motor up with the first cam and all though

[Trmnatr]

I like your way of thinking there Trmnatr. With that lift though he needs to make sure to pay close attention to his piston to valve clearances. But since he is running the J&E pistons he ought to be ok.

Don

WCRE

Thats why he must have that much spring pressure, That is a Comp HXL lobe which snaps the intake valve open and he will need some pretty good pressure but most important, the heavy pounds per inch spring rate those springs have

Here are some specs on that Cam's intake lobe {12-865-9},
Comp HXL intake lobe
307 @.020" tappet lift
278 @.050" tappet lift
201 @.200" tappet lift
.174" tappet lift @ TDC which means .278" valve lift @ TDC with a 1.6 rocker which means your gonna get to the peak flow of the cylinder head much quicker than a smaller cam and it will have more velocity through the head because your getting the valve out of the way and getting the air/fuel mix moving quicker because your at a better flowing lift of the head when the piston starts going down the bore which is gonna give you HP

[cmoreb]

I live in Peru , we have a 10sec bracket that is the faster category here , the 3 best cars are MOPAR the first one is a Plymouth Satelite(10.42s) 540ci with INDY heads , the second one is a Dodge Dart (10.60s) 500ci with edelbrock performer heads and the thir one is Barracuda with 408ci (10.88sec) and W2 heads.

So this are the cars to beat. There are any roules. Do I have to port the heds? how much can I gain with the porting?

thanks for the advise

[Trmnatr]

I live in Peru , we have a 10sec bracket that is the faster category here , the 3 best cars are MOPAR the first one is a Plymouth Satelite(10.42s) 540ci with INDY heads , the second one is a Dodge Dart (10.60s) 500ci with edelbrock performer heads and the thir one is Barracuda with 408ci (10.88sec) and W2 heads.

So this are the cars to beat. There are any roules. Do I have to port the heds? how much can I gain with the porting?

thanks for the advise

What is your altitude where you live? The first set up will run in the 10's here in Maryland in a camaro, nova or chevelle that is properly set up

Dont port the heads, The only porting i would do is bowl porting but on the platinums i wouldnt touch them, I have never had a Dart Iron Eagle or Pro 1 ported, Just old Sportsman II's and Dart 215's out perform ported Sportsman II's

In my opinion the best head porter around does super stock heads and doesnt have much time and a local guy here, Ladd's porting here in Maryland and Heads Up in Ohio which does a ton of super stock porting/welding

One suggestion, Use what ever your block was bored for, Its not 100% {my way is this} but if i have a block that im gonna run iron heads on i specify a steel torque plate bore and hone but if im running aluminum heads i specify i want the motor bored with an aluminum torque plate - Most good machine shops have both

The reason i do this is cast iron and aluminum "disperse" or carry the torque loads different from each other so which ever the block was bored with i would use for head material or if the block has not been bored yet i would decide and buy the heads and have the block bored and honed with a plate of the same type of material and the same type head gasket you plan on using

Also, when using Cometic gaskets i like to use the same gasket im using on the engine because Cometic distorts the bore far greater from Fel-Pro performance gaskets - This is critical in a high rpm small block like your engine will be if you go this route

How much do your pistons weigh and how much does the pin weigh?

[Awesome Bill]

Carlos, my opinion would be to stay on the conservative side. The 215 head will work but your engine will be lazy in the shifts and will take way longer to recover with the heads, intake, cam that has been suggested. Your engine @ 355" will only make maybe 500-525 hp with your current combination even if that. I do not know your altitude your racing but @ seal level, you should be able to run 10.30-10.50 depending on how efficient your car is. My suggestion would be to run the 200 cc heads, just clean them up well, the Victor Jr. is a way better intake than the Dart would be for your size engine. With the camshaft, I would stay in the 260 intake to 276 exhaust @ .050 area with a 106-108 lobe sep. You can get those heads with 2.05-1.6 wicth is a ton of intake valve and will work very well. I do agree on the spring package and push rods along with shaft rockers. But, a good set of 1.550 springs installed @ 225 on the seat and 600-650 open will be fine. That is hp you will actually make for free.

As far as gear and converter go, the ATI unit is very good as well as a few others out there. Neither are any good if not made correctly and produce to much converter slippage. @ 3100 lbs with driver, you need 520hp to run 10.30's. If you run the 5.13 gear with the 30" tire, you would be crossing the finish line well over 8000 rpm and as the gentlemen said, limit your engine to 7600 rp. I don't understand his reasoning there.
With only 5% converter slippage @ only 129-130 mph would put you well over 8000 rpm with 5.13 gears. This is ofcourse if your car is set up properly. This is just simple math. I have found most of the 8" ATI stuff to be at the very least 5% and even up to 15% if you get one on the wrong day. This will only be found out once you install and record your finish line rpm with the diameter of your tire and mph with whatever gear you use. This always tells if the converter is slipping or working. ATI does make quality converters as well as many others. You have to prove their converter to be right in your applicaiton. So with that, the 4.88 gear would be choice and your crossing rpm would be 7000-7400 with 5% converter slippage. This should put you square in the middle of the pack.

The carb should be an hp 750 holley out of the box with a 1 inch open spacer. The 4 hole spacers nearly never work on the dyno. The 750 cfm carbs work very well otbox. As far as timing, I would start @ 34° and work my way up 1 degree at a time until E.T. does not change. Once it peaks, go back to the last # used. Header tube size should be 1¾ with a 3½ collector. This is considered big for this engine but will support 700 hp with no problems. A 1¾ to 1-7/8 step would be nice.

Use lightweight rotational parts such as wheels, slicks, axles, studs, lug nuts, pinion flange and any thing else you can shave. Electric water pump, electric fuel pump all help add in the performance of the engines ability to move this heavy monster. You should be o.k. with the 100 octane fuel with this set up. These are just my opinions so read everyones post and choose wisely.

[Trmnatr]

Carlos, my opinion would be to stay on the conservative side. The 215 head will work but your engine will be lazy in the shifts and will take way longer to recover with the heads, intake, cam that has been suggested. Your engine @ 355" will only make maybe 500-525 hp with your current combination even if that. I do not know your altitude your racing but @ seal level, you should be able to run 10.30-10.50 depending on how efficient your car is. My suggestion would be to run the 200 cc heads, just clean them up well, the Victor Jr. is a way better intake than the Dart would be for your size engine. With the camshaft, I would stay in the 260 intake to 276 exhaust @ .050 area with a 106-108 lobe sep. You can get those heads with 2.05-1.6 wicth is a ton of intake valve and will work very well. I do agree on the spring package and push rods along with shaft rockers. But, a good set of 1.550 springs installed @ 225 on the seat and 600-650 open will be fine. That is hp you will actually make for free.

As far as gear and converter go, the ATI unit is very good as well as a few others out there. Neither are any good if not made correctly and produce to much converter slippage. @ 3100 lbs with driver, you need 520hp to run 10.30's. If you run the 5.13 gear with the 30" tire, you would be crossing the finish line well over 8000 rpm and as the gentlemen said, limit your engine to 7600 rp. I don't understand his reasoning there.
With only 5% converter slippage @ only 129-130 mph would put you well over 8000 rpm with 5.13 gears. This is ofcourse if your car is set up properly. This is just simple math. I have found most of the 8" ATI stuff to be at the very least 5% and even up to 15% if you get one on the wrong day. This will only be found out once you install and record your finish line rpm with the diameter of your tire and mph with whatever gear you use. This always tells if the converter is slipping or working. ATI does make quality converters as well as many others. You have to prove their converter to be right in your applicaiton. So with that, the 4.88 gear would be choice and your crossing rpm would be 7000-7400 with 5% converter slippage. This should put you square in the middle of the pack.

The carb should be an hp 750 holley out of the box with a 1 inch open spacer. The 4 hole spacers nearly never work on the dyno. The 750 cfm carbs work very well otbox. As far as timing, I would start @ 34° and work my way up 1 degree at a time until E.T. does not change. Once it peaks, go back to the last # used. Header tube size should be 1¾ with a 3½ collector. This is considered big for this engine but will support 700 hp with no problems. A 1¾ to 1-7/8 step would be nice.

Use lightweight rotational parts such as wheels, slicks, axles, studs, lug nuts, pinion flange and any thing else you can shave. Electric water pump, electric fuel pump all help add in the performance of the engines ability to move this heavy monster. You should be o.k. with the 100 octane fuel with this set up. These are just my opinions so read everyones post and choose wisely.

He should limit the RPM to 7,600rpm if the piston is above 360-375grams - The piston is trying to loft off the crank pulling the rod, the heavier piston WILL strain the rod bolt - Think of it like valve float, the valve is getting launched so fast it floats now stop and think about that heavy piston and what its doing to the big end of the rod and rod bolts

I do agree with the headers Bill suggests, 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" with the first cam. You will have a very good ET if you go with the set up i suggest or if you mix our set ups that Bill and i suggest - you will still have a good set up

With the larger cam its gonna produce more top end HP but about the same TQ thus requiring more gear and converter to launch at a higher rpm and is gonna pull on the top end HARDER

[Trmnatr]

Just to Note:

Some people like to build torque, thats fine, there are two ways, here they are:

1- build the engine for good torque and HP, this is the set up you will have with Bill's suggestion, good torque and HP

2- build the engine for HP and let the gear and converter replace the TQ loss and let the HP work on the big end, this is the set up you will have with my suggestion

The reason i like #2 is this - If you wanted torque you would build a 500cid engine, a small block is hard to compete with this big breathing cubes, usually a BB runs a SB down on the big end - Build a SB for High RPM HP and use gear and converter to launch and the BB is not gonna be able to run you down as easy

[cmoreb]

We ran at sea level, I remember that the pistons, pins, locks and rings weight 480 grams.

thanks again

[Awesome Bill]

BB or SB, that has very little bearing on what one does on the top end. What your referring to is setting up the combination to maximize the power curve. HP is HP and does not know its a BB or a SB or a Ford or a Dodge. If your gonna use the 6500-8000 rpm band, then gear and converter it for that. But, the engine will suffer from higher rpm problems that plague todays high winders. with maintainence. Thats really not that bad but stuff happens. What does happen is the engine just does not like the heavier cars and will be down on E.T. because all those really loose converters like to slip and then the MPH falls off because the frontal area of the car also becomes a factor and once the area over comes the power, you just get slippage. That is why cars have mph and don't have.
Ofcourse, a BBC with a tighter converter and properly geared will mph more because it can push threw the resistance of the air, water in the air, (people wonder why their car runs slower mph on a humid day)? and other factors. Once the converter starts to slip, it ususally puts the engine over its rpm limit and then just rides along there because it can't make any more power to push threw.
All in all, the package you designed for his application would still not run with my package. We have run those big cam small blocks and they just don't need that much duration @ .050. All engines like to be under cammed then over. Over camming and engine will kill power all the way threw. Under camming the engine is way happier.
The dyno proves this on most occassions. There are times when you come up on something a little off center that really works. I've done it. But most likely, it does not happen. Pro Stock engines on the intake side @ 10,000 rpm, most don't have that much duration!. I actually use that on the BBC side with a ton more inches than 350. Nascar engines that run @ 8500-9000 rpm with heads a ton better than what he has only runs 260-276@ .050. Yeah, think on that one. Don't be so quick to go with the some is good and more must be better. Its not. You wind up with torque and hp curves that are very spikey.

[Awesome Bill]

We run some SBF stuff around 310" and they love 7500 to 8800 rpm with the yates heads. The duration @.050 is not even in the 60's and the exhaust just does touch it. 8800 rpm and 720hp. Won't fall out of a tree leaving @ 6000. Once the engine reaches 7400, it feels like its on Nitrous. Really cool feeling all of a sudden just bam. Bryant Crankt, Groden Alu Rods, All titanium, big push rods, the whole shabang. Never broke anything in 2 years. Had some piston issues with too much heat, but put a blow torch on any metal and it will cut it into.

[lun40119]

I run the 215 on mine with around 12:1 (with a dome and 64cc's) 256/268 at .050 solid flat tappet and made above 500. It peaked HP at 6800 and really took a dive at 7200-7300 when the springs quit. Otherwise it was coming off slowly. I am happy with the combo, it runs well. It is a street car, with close to 3500 miles on it since the beginning of April. Just my two cents, you guys know more than I do.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gPXiOKwVpkY

Jake

[Awesome Bill]

Your flat tappet is what is your limiter right now. Let me guess on the 5/16" push rod stuff with roller rockers and steel valves and chrome moly retainers? Roller is the only way to make good power above 6500 with those heavy componets. Still, 500 hp is pretty stout. I would love to see that on my dyno! I would most likely patent it. That is over 1.408 hp per cube with that stuff. I would check your dyno or even better, e.t. and mph will pretty much confirm hp or dismiss it. I see people advertise engines like this all the time and run 12.50 @ 105mph in a 3500-4000 # car and boast about 500hp. It only takes 300-350hp to push a car with those specs to that e.t. At the very least, your not advertising you do it on pump gas. Nice engine and HP.

[lun40119]

Im not sure how to take that post Bill.............We have had the whole dyno conversation before. Sweep rates, corrections, weights everything. It is the same dyno as yours. It has gone 11.89 @ 118 with the old heads(sportsman II's)
and a 2.09 60ft. (Street tires, and no brake) But that is also with that crappy little 10" blue converter(wont mention any names). We in fact talked on the PM side of things, and you told me to try the heads, and let you know what happened. I did that. You also said not to make them any bigger which I did not. The biggest beaf, that I have had with these heads to date was idle quality. A simple initial timing adjustment cleaned most of it up, but you are probably right, that cross section is a little large for this swept volume, at the lower engine speeds. I assure you it is not lazy off shifts, and it makes a mess out of the present converter. 13%+ slippage at 6500 on the chassis dyno. (We have PMed about this as well.)

I am familiar with what you are talking about with people squaking about making 500 hp from these smaller cube engines. I deal with it at alot of cruise nights, and car shows. I just smile and agree knowing well, it took alot of time on the dyno to get mine to run like it does at WOT. And it still isn't perfect. I don't have the sheet in front of me, but if I recall the BSFC numbers were around .455. But at the top they were getting worse.......... .500ish. Memory isn't working that well.

On a lighter note..........didnt you claim on an ebay engine........"5 and some change torque" on a 3.500" stroke small block with 6" rods, and "junk parts". That is impressive.

Behave yourself

Jake

[Trmnatr]

Im not sure how to take that post Bill.............We have had the whole dyno conversation before. Sweep rates, corrections, weights everything. It is the same dyno as yours. It has gone 11.89 @ 118 with the old heads(sportsman II's)
and a 2.09 60ft. (Street tires, and no brake) But that is also with that crappy little 10" blue converter(wont mention any names). We in fact talked on the PM side of things, and you told me to try the heads, and let you know what happened. I did that. You also said not to make them any bigger which I did not. The biggest beaf, that I have had with these heads to date was idle quality. A simple initial timing adjustment cleaned most of it up, but you are probably right, that cross section is a little large for this swept volume, at the lower engine speeds. I assure you it is not lazy off shifts, and it makes a mess out of the present converter. 13%+ slippage at 6500 on the chassis dyno. (We have PMed about this as well.)

I am familiar with what you are talking about with people squaking about making 500 hp from these smaller cube engines. I deal with it at alot of cruise nights, and car shows. I just smile and agree knowing well, it took alot of time on the dyno to get mine to run like it does at WOT. And it still isn't perfect. I don't have the sheet in front of me, but if I recall the BSFC numbers were around .455. But at the top they were getting worse.......... .500ish. Memory isn't working that well.

On a lighter note..........didnt you claim on an ebay engine........"5 and some change torque" on a 3.500" stroke small block with 6" rods, and "junk parts". That is impressive.

Behave yourself

Jake


Im sorry but it takes more than 300-350hp at the engine to run 12's in a heavy car like that. If your talking rear wheel HP i will agree that 300-350hp is 12's - Engine HP NOOOOOOOOOOOO

I dont care what the dyno shows. i have seen dyno queens that will not out run my junk i build without a dyno - A DYNO IS A TOOL and thats it - Usually you get peak HP from a dyno and the car will ET quicker with 2°-4° more timing and 2-3 jet sizes larger than best tune on the dyno

I have also seen 600hp dyno engines that cant out run and mph 500hp small block engines

At 11.80's and 118mph depending on your tq your 550-575hp as the ET will show more when you have the car better tuned

At 118ph you should be running low 11's, even possible to click a 10.95-10.99, 119mph will click 10.90's but you need to get alot better launch to get the car moving - It will come together for you

[lun40119]

I used the dyno as a tool, like you stated. The last time I ran that car, was at a real street deal, with 10" BFG's..........it was a joke. I didn't even attempt to use the transbrake, and it still was a smoke show. I am waiting for the wifey to give me the go to purchase a new converter. Then the 28x10.5's can go on and we can see what it can do. I am excited for it. Right now this converter does some wierd stuff and really puts alot of heat in my trans. I have a trans guage in the out line to the cooler. I am not sure what is safe, but after 2 hot laps it gets up to 250 or 260 with a 6 row cooler.

Thanks for the input. I really do appreciate it. I am not in any way unhappy with this combo. I was just using it as an example of 215's on the smaller cube engine. Like I said it does run well. It is a shame, it is coming apart for new rods, pistons, and crank. By the end of the year, it will have 30,000 on the rotator, and it is time for something bigger. Long live the turd!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care

Jake

[Trmnatr]

I used the dyno as a tool, like you stated. The last time I ran that car, was at a real street deal, with 10" BFG's..........it was a joke. I didn't even attempt to use the transbrake, and it still was a smoke show. I am waiting for the wifey to give me the go to purchase a new converter. Then the 28x10.5's can go on and we can see what it can do. I am excited for it. Right now this converter does some wierd stuff and really puts alot of heat in my trans. I have a trans guage in the out line to the cooler. I am not sure what is safe, but after 2 hot laps it gets up to 250 or 260 with a 6 row cooler.

Thanks for the input. I really do appreciate it. I am not in any way unhappy with this combo. I was just using it as an example of 215's on the smaller cube engine. Like I said it does run well. It is a shame, it is coming apart for new rods, pistons, and crank. By the end of the year, it will have 30,000 on the rotator, and it is time for something bigger. Long live the turd!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care

Jake

Jake,

Got your PM

I dont care what anyone says but 215 heads work on 355's as i have customers running 10.80's at Capitol Raceway on 215's

My engine has been together for years with 215's and it has ran a best pass of 12.182 @110.04mph with 215's on a 331cid

We have ran 350's with the Dart '220' heads, we have ran 350's with the 215's and 200's and the 215's ET quicker but the engine must be built for the heads, here is why

-A sewer pipe has a ton of airflow but it cant deliver air speed until it reaches peak airflow which would be what, 25" lift ??? With the 200cc head you need a camshaft that will open .620-.630 and with 215's no smaller than .650

-Your induction system will pull in more air/fuel mix from TDC through the first 90° so the quicker and higher you can have the valve open @ TDC your gonna pull more air/fuel mix in and get to peak air velocity within a range that the pressure differential in the first 90° away from TDC is pulling in the most air/fuel mix

I like to have the valve open no less than .275" at the valve with a large heads on a 302-327-350 engine @ TDC, you must put the head in the "flow range" when the piston is in the flow range which is TDC through the first 90°

OK, some say this is gonna create reversion from overlap, right? WRONG, You run a long duration exhaust lobe so that the valve opens a good ways before BDC, yes you loose some power in theory from this but it also makes power in this way, Engine builders that build high rpm engines such as myself refer to this as the blowdown period where exhaust gasses are leaving the engine without the piston pushing them out - SO the longer the blowdown period the more HP you make because the engine has less high pressure exhaust gasses that the piston has to push out which creates a loss in power so the so called theory of loss of power due to a longer blowdown period is false PLUS you have less reversion with a longer blowdown period before BDC because there is less high pressure exhaust gasses that escape into the intake tract during overlap

We have ran as big as 288/294 @.050 with a 332cid, we have ran as big as a 276/280 @.050 in a 292cid, we have ran as big as 283/291 @.050 in a 355cid

But onething that remains is DART is always onboard for ALL our builds except for the 283 which was heavily modified GM castings

We have made great power with Dart Iron heads, They just break my back man, those suckers are heavy

[Awesome Bill]

They are considered junk to me, but gold to others. Also very lightweight and a ton of work to get it there and knowing what parts to put together from years of doing it. But, that really has no bearing here.

The dyno is needed and used to get the most out of any combination. You can test for years and not get the combo right. The dyno in one day with a good driver and someone who can read, will get most of the kinks out right away.

Gear converter, peaks, torque, bsfc, timing, fuel needed etc. etc. etc. I used to say the same stuff before we had a killer dyno. I WAS WRONG and the only reason I talked like that was because what else could I say to someone who had a dyno? Nothing that would matter I can tell you that now after plunking down the funds and time to have one that is at best very conservative. I don't care what the engine makes on the dyno, I care about what I find on it.

There are all kinds of engines that like rpm and big heads and cams, but you better build it better!. It is true you can make 500 hp with a 355, but it don't come easy. And if it does make 500 real hp, a 3000lb car will run 10.30's if properly set up . Most cars eat a ton of hp and most don't even get ¾ of what the engine makes from just being the wrong set up. Over geared and convertered is what we mostly see.

It does not matter what the dyno says, it does however matter what the time slip says. That is proof your dyno is working. And 300 hp will propel a 3000# car 11.90's to 12.00's @ seal level on a decent day. That is an NHRA fact.

As far as your bsfc going rich with more rpm should tell you exactly what is going on. That is a common problem and can be fixed easily.

[Awesome Bill]

You do not need longer duration camshafts to make power. All they do is relieve you of critical cylinder pressure. Open the exhaust up to long, your intake charge that is supposed to be kept inside is now out the exhaust pipe especially with those short stroke engines. As I said before, Nascar engine builders that I have been able to talk to use no where near that duration. That is just plain silly. We have dyno tested that stuff and it makes power but way off of where it could be. You talk about e.t., tell me your weight that your car runs those times.

In the late 80's early 90's we were running street cars with double humps 2.02/1.60 in 3700 lb street cars running 11.90's @ 112 all the time. @ 2600lbs, we run a stock 11/1 350 with untouched double humps, out of the box Victor Jr. and a 750 out of the box carb and went 10.17 @ 129 with a footbrake car and a powerglide. So I don't understand what your saying about running high tens and high elevens and needing 500 hp to do it. Your time slip and the weight of your car also taking in the mph will tell me just what your engine is making. That is the real dyno as you say. I've got engines under 370" that run in the 9.60's and 70's with no problem @ 3300 and 3400 lbs and one with a TH400 doing it. So E.T. proves what power is available and what power your not getting with those times posted. The engine could be making as much as you say but your car is eating it up. Get a MOROSO power speed calculator #89650 and you will see what power your making. Those things are dead on!

[lun40119]

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms. I was just saying that I have them on mine, and they work.

Jake

[Trmnatr]

You do not need longer duration camshafts to make power. All they do is relieve you of critical cylinder pressure. Open the exhaust up to long, your intake charge that is supposed to be kept inside is now out the exhaust pipe especially with those short stroke engines. As I said before, Nascar engine builders that I have been able to talk to use no where near that duration. That is just plain silly. We have dyno tested that stuff and it makes power but way off of where it could be. You talk about e.t., tell me your weight that your car runs those times.

In the late 80's early 90's we were running street cars with double humps 2.02/1.60 in 3700 lb street cars running 11.90's @ 112 all the time. @ 2600lbs, we run a stock 11/1 350 with untouched double humps, out of the box Victor Jr. and a 750 out of the box carb and went 10.17 @ 129 with a footbrake car and a powerglide. So I don't understand what your saying about running high tens and high elevens and needing 500 hp to do it. Your time slip and the weight of your car also taking in the mph will tell me just what your engine is making. That is the real dyno as you say. I've got engines under 370" that run in the 9.60's and 70's with no problem @ 3300 and 3400 lbs and one with a TH400 doing it. So E.T. proves what power is available and what power your not getting with those times posted. The engine could be making as much as you say but your car is eating it up. Get a MOROSO power speed calculator #89650 and you will see what power your making. Those things are dead on!


Maybe engines run different on that side of the state :D

I have taken 283's, 327's and 350's and installed larger cams, gears and converters and they ET quicker - Period - That is a fact

[Awesome Bill]

Anything is possible?