Total Seal Gapless Top Rings / Dart Heads

[Trmnatr]

Who out here has used "Total Seal Gapless" Top Rings with Dart heads?

"In My Opinion" the theory behind Gapless TOP rings could or should make more power, maybe more crankcase vacuum, maybe more RPM, Maybe better cylinder sealing, Maybe less ring tension ???????????? Anybody have any results??

"In my Opinion" the theory behind Gapless Second rings is not good because with a std top ring you will have a pressure build up inbetween the rings causing the top ring to unseat THUS the reason with std rings you set the Second ring gap 25%-50% more depending on Competition Level

Maybe Dart's engine shop has some thoughts on this??

Would Gapless Top rings change the signal when using a Dart Iron Eagle/Pro 1 head??

[Awesome Bill]

Who out here has used "Total Seal Gapless" Top Rings with Dart heads?

"In My Opinion" the theory behind Gapless TOP rings could or should make more power, maybe more crankcase vacuum, maybe more RPM, Maybe better cylinder sealing, Maybe less ring tension ???????????? Anybody have any results??

"In my Opinion" the theory behind Gapless Second rings is not good because with a std top ring you will have a pressure build up inbetween the rings causing the top ring to unseat THUS the reason with std rings you set the Second ring gap 25%-50% more depending on Competition Level

Maybe Dart's engine shop has some thoughts on this??

Would Gapless Top rings change the signal when using a Dart Iron Eagle/Pro 1 head??

When the block is properly honed, we have found no hp gain with gapless rings and @ any rpm over 7000 rpm not seen the real deal hp gain and may be worst. The gap in the ring end allows pressure to get behind the ring and promote better seal, the gas porting does this also but really is not needed unless the weight of the ring over comes the ring seal and unloads because the pressure is off set from the ring becoming to heavy with rpm. The lighter the ring the more rpm it will handle. We find no hp gains with gas porting under 7500 rpm. Of course some will say they do but we have not. Now the little engines with larger bores and 8000+ rpm, we do see better ring seal and power. But anything that runs over 9000 rpm, we pretty much gas port everything. It works up there and that is it. As far as gapless verses conventional, some say they make more some say no. I have personally used both and seen no difference. Proper end gaps for hp or heat used means more than any ring.

You have to remember in most cases the second ring is considerably tighter than the top, but at any type of rpm, the little ring end gap will not allow air to pass because its like trying to push the great lakes, all of them threw a 1 ft canal. all in a mil a second or less. Then with the vacuum between the top and second ring, it can't get by in the time everything is sealed with fuel and air, the explosion happens so quick, it is all captured and then gone. So don't get real crazy about .020-.040" end gap on a 4.6 bore with a lot of NOS. It can't get threw there fast enough to make any difference.

[gremmen]

I'm not sure about any HP gain, but we run Total Seal Top Gapless in our two SBC motors. One motor is 355 alcohol injected, the other is a 383 nitrous motor. Basically we see no lose in cylinder pressure leakage when we do Leak Down Tests. When we ran other ring packs, we seen greater lose on the 355 sbc.

[Awesome Bill]

exceptable leak down is under 5% even for brand new engines, if the bore is not round, I don't care what ring is in it, it will be down on power. Our new engines are under 3% @ worst case and most times around 1-1½%. After break in on dyno, it stays there. This means nothing when the engine is running, the end gap of .020-.035 means nothing in power loss. The honing procedure is what makes or breaks power losses and the roundness of the bore which in building race engines is strickly held to a much higher standard from honing the block to the assembly. If the engine is sold with bolts, we make sure each bolt is the exact length in depth into the block. If studs are used, we set them @ 5 ft lbs and torque from there. The assembly is done with the same lube as the honing procedure and the same length and torque of fasteners. Head gaksets that are used for the new engine are simulated to the same thickness for the engine. When we start the engines, the first pulls are without any evacuation and even @ 7000 rpm you will see very little if any crank case pressure. I have many listed on u tube and even with blower engine we see the same thing.

So instead of thinking your making power with an end gap that really can't get enough power loss threw it with a leak people tend to think will make a difference, the power gained from roll radisued valve jobs, lightweight components, proper camshaft and intake for combination, geometry etc etc are just as much as if not more power gains than any total seal top or second ring. We don't even use 2nd rings in some engines and see some serious power you don't even know is out there.

Either way, do want you want and use who you are having sucess with. Power is confirmed @ the track, not the dyno. Dyno is just used to make sure everthing used is o.k. before we ship and of course, finding those few hp that we strive to do with engines every day. New things make power? some do most don't.

[jsup]

I was just having a conversation with someone about those gapless rings....the information I was provided is identical to the first post. Good information, I'm going to link the person who told me that.