New Dart Product

[Dart Vader]

This one's not a poll, just a question.

If you could choose any one product that Dart currently doesn't make that you would like us to make, what would it be?

Feel free to elborate on why you chose what you did.

[want-a-be]

Raised Runner 23° heads with 49cc chambers. Or.....the same thing in 18° that you can use stud mounted rocker asms on. In Aluminum of course.

Don

[Trmnatr]

A line of Drag "as cast" heads for small block in my case as i do small blocks, but do BB's too but get feedback on those from BB engine builders

Dart would have Re-Located rocker studs {bb location} and have a Company such as Crane or another rocker producer make 1.5 and 1.6 rockers available but in a BB rocker for a small block

This gives the budget minded racer the chance to have the following out of Pro 1 and Iron Eagle's:
1) a little less friction in the valve train
2) can run larger springs with out shaft mounts

Also supply them with the following:

Also, clearance the head from the manifold to the head for large pushrods such as 3/8" or 7/16"

Also, Offer port programs on the bare castings, Even if Dart has to use M2 to do so

Supply the heads with 5/16" guides instead of 11/32"

Have the spring pockets stepped like the old Dart II, 1.55" on the inner step and up to 1.65" on the outer step, The BB rocker would allow this size spring to be used, Afterall that is what most shaft mounts do, Huh?

Maybe call them Dart "Race Pro" for Aluminum and Dart "Race Eagle" or something like that

Stahl exhaust pattern on ALL heads

The heads should be offered in 64cc and 58cc. Why use a larger chamber in a performane head? Its like........, The 18° heads dont use a larger chamber

These heads as cast like this could sell for probally $850 for iron and $1,400 for aluminum but would be a race inspired head for the budget racer or bracket racer - It would alsobe a new bar set in the performance industry

Now here why i say this,
1) do you know how many people install 1.560-1.640 springs in Dart's iron and Pro 1's ?? ALOT

2) do you know how many people run shaft mounts to move the pivot length back ? ALOT

3) do you know how many mill the heads so they can use a smaller dome to get a better flame front? ALOT

4) do you know how may run increased spring pressures? ALOT, They now need increased clearance for larger pushrods. Almost all cases a 3/8" would be fine

5) look at how many people have installed 5/16" valve guides in Dart heads to get a lighter valve. ALOT

6) Look at how many people get their Dart or Pro 1 heads ported after they get them, They would be able to order the heads with a port program to suit their engine from Dart {or if Dart did the port program}

What do you think Dart Vader? To me it only makes sense and follows the performance trends now days

BIG ADDITION TO DART: On all iron eagle and pro 1 heads the spring pockets should have a 1.250" and 1.55" pocket like the old Dart II

This would allow a shorter valve for solid flat tappet, hyd flat tapet and hyd roller street cams. The shorter valve would be lighter to help against valve float when you cant run high enough spring pressures to control the valve - This would be a HUGE PLUS on BB heads

[guru]

Small port 18 or 15 degree heads for street engines, and a corresponding dual and single plane intakes, maybe have a version of the single plane intake for EFI.

[Awesome Bill]

You have the Chevy and Ford stuff covered Pontiac has a ton of people who would purchase blocks such as the shp one and a really good set of aluminum heads. You could not fill the orders.

[1989TransAm]

I think Guru is on to something. No one makes a good 15 or 18 degree SBC head for the street. Even if you have to use offset rocker arms which are readily available I think it would be worth looking into. Most would be buying rocker arms anyways. I have seen this question asked on numerous forums. ;)

You could advertise it as "making LSX performance out of your SBC".

[guru]

Maybe use LSx valve train parts. For instance the LS7 roller lifter is backwards compatible with LT1 and other roller cam blocks.

[1989TransAm]

Yep, with the thinner LSX valve stems, light weight valves and springs. Get the geometry correct. ;) The mid-lift theory seems to be the hot ticket.

[Awesome Bill]

The GM Heads are killer once the cnc port work is done, most likely none better, so why produce another of thousands that can be had cheap? Build something no one else does or do it better and like I said, Pontiac or Olds guys are very loyal and will spend big bucks. SHP style splayed cap Pontiac Block. Don't even worry about the heads, Edelbrock has that covered.

[1989TransAm]

I have not seen a 15 or 18 degree head for the street. Something say with a 195 to 205cc intake port.

[Awesome Bill]

You can take the stock GM stuff and a few people have CNC porting for them, M2, and these heads are picked up a ton and are not to large. You can increase the valve size and stiff up the valve springs and pick up 40 hp or more with stroker combinations!

[Trmnatr]

This one's not a poll, just a question.

If you could choose any one product that Dart currently doesn't make that you would like us to make, what would it be?

Feel free to elborate on why you chose what you did.

I use and suggest Dart all the time BUT here is why i see some people buying the competitions product, They know it will fit without mods because there buddy that has a 383 with 10:1 has the same set up etc...

I have a MAJOR suggestion

Come out with an engine kit for 355, 383 and 406 that consists of one of the two kits or both:
Option # 1
Cam, Lifter and iron heads or aluminum for a $xxxx upgrade

Option # 2
Cam, Lifters, iron Heads or aluminum for a $xxxx upgrade, manifold and matching pistons that fit the chamber {alot of people buy whats popular because it fits, EX: no fly cutting or modifying pistons}

I think this would be a huge leap for Dart, offering hyd and street solid roller kits with the heads. It would set Dart at the forefront of street/strip technology

There is alot of Crane, Lunati and Comp out there but why is there more non engine builders using Comp?? They provide a kit with matching components and this would be what Dart would be doing but taking the component package a step further

I wouldnt do 12:1 packages, Street packages for the guy that wants performance and wants to do it himself and is not up on altering things

Maybe do one 11.5:1 355, 383 and 406 bracket kit too

Just my $.02

[guru]

I use and suggest Dart all the time BUT here is why i see some people buying the competitions product, They know it will fit without mods because there buddy that has a 383 with 10:1 has the same set up etc...

I have a MAJOR suggestion

Come out with an engine kit for 355, 383 and 406 that consists of one of the two kits or both:
Option # 1
Cam, Lifter and iron heads or aluminum for a $xxxx upgrade

Option # 2
Cam, Lifters, iron Heads or aluminum for a $xxxx upgrade, manifold and matching pistons that fit the chamber {alot of people buy whats popular because it fits, EX: no fly cutting or modifying pistons}

I think this would be a huge leap for Dart, offering hyd and street solid roller kits with the heads. It would set Dart at the forefront of street/strip technology

There is alot of Crane, Lunati and Comp out there but why is there more non engine builders using Comp?? They provide a kit with matching components and this would be what Dart would be doing but taking the component package a step further

I wouldnt do 12:1 packages, Street packages for the guy that wants performance and wants to do it himself and is not up on altering things

Maybe do one 11.5:1 355, 383 and 406 bracket kit too

Just my $.02

I agree with this. If not offer the parts, provide some marketing information. AFR, Brodix, and edelbrock will tell you exactly what parts to buy to make a certian "proven" combination.

[jakesz28]

If you go thru with a LT1 style block I would look into a set of 18* heads with the reverse flow cooling. It is fairly common for people to run converted sbc heads on a LT1 block but I want to run 400-500 hp of nitrous thru one of these and my current heads have been converted and welded on. I don't like all the welding on them because of soft spots from lack of heat treating. I put a fair amount of money in the last motor when if I could have built an aftermarket block with a larger bore for close to the same money.

[brougham]

a street version of the 18 deg head small ports say 2 types 190 205 cc runner and make it so it takes 23 deg rocker set up and the ls style valve and spring set up for light weight but can be machined take the old style springs allways keep in mind quility and cost that is why the shp is selling so good why buy a little m block wheen you can get a shp and save $$$$ depnding also on hp you want to make thats my .02 worth

[roadtrip120]

Iron Eagle LTX Block


If i'm going to spend 1900.00 for a SHP block for 600hp max rating, i would rather spend 3000.00 for 1500hp max rating. Whats another 1000.00 at this point.

[Awesome Bill]

It does not cost 1900.00 even fully race prepped with everything ready for assembly notched for a 4.0" crank and steel rods w/cam bearings and freeze plugs!

[DARTZZILLA]

An lt-x iron eagle w/little chief's & ltl chief lftr/bore spacing, w/a littlechief lt-1 style efi mini ram!:eek:

Yea i know im selfish:rolleyes:

[515hptogo]

How about offering the 200cc Pro 1 platinum heads for sbc with 2.05" valves and 75 or 76cc combustion chambers? This would work well with the guys building large displacment sbc engines and no I'm not talking about the 383 stroker, think bigger...............right now the biggest drawback to building a 410 cu in and up engine is the piston availability for street car compression ratios. Most 400 bore pistons are either domed or deep dished. For the builder who wants a n/a (normally aspirated) engine the domed pistons will work but the compression ratios get a little high for street use. Larger combustion chambers allow bringing the compression numbers to a sane level for street use and also help to unshroud larger valves which are needed for the extra flow a large displacement engine demands. While the 215 cc pro 1 heads come close, a set of 200's with a large combustion chamber (75 or76 cc's) and the 2.05 valves would be about perfect.

Thanks for offering a suggestion forum

Paul

[Dart Vader]

Iron Eagle LTX Block


If i'm going to spend 1900.00 for a SHP block for 600hp max rating, i would rather spend 3000.00 for 1500hp max rating. Whats another 1000.00 at this point.

Those horsepower ratings are very conservative values. We've seen a lot of people put a lot more than 600 horsepower into an SHP block with no problems.

[ComaxRacing]

I just noticed this thread so I'll throw my opinion in.

I would like to see an aluminum block with removable cylinder liners, and cross bolted caps. You already have blocks with every possible combination of cam,bore spacing etc. The removable liners would be great, if a person looses a piston you can repair it easily.

If I had to choose between the two features I would like the removable liners over the cross bolting.:)



Corey

[ejohnson03]

Seems like there are a lot of Crate motors out on the market.

How about a few Dart Crate motor combinations?

Mmmmmm Yaaaaaaaa, that's the ticket.

[Outlaw440]

Billet aluminum ford 9.5" blocks.

[DARTZZILLA]

INCREASE DECK THICKNESS TO 7/8" ON THE RACE HEADS!
AND MAKE A 9 degree CLEVELAND HEAD, BBF HEAD & BBF RACE BLK!
OH YEAH!
I THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD SHOULD BRING BACK THE 4VALVE "ZR-1" MOTOR IN THE FORM OF A "RACE SERIES 4 VALVE DUAL OVERHEAD CAM BIGCHIEF BIG BLOCK CHEVY":D

[Trmnatr]

I would like to see Dart offer the 200cc Pro 1 and Iron Eagle with 2.02 & 2.055 valves but do different castings so the throat size is proper per the valve size

The 2.055 valve head would allow some to use a smaller camshaft and get the same valve area as a larger camshaft and smaller valves

Keep the 215's to 2.055 as thats perfect for them

I would offer the 230's with a 2.08 & 2.10

With the Pro 1's you could use the same castings just a different bowl blend program

[TheRowdyJ]

-4.5" bore spacing on a cleveland style 400m fat bore ford small block.
-small block motor mounts and tranny mounts found on the windsor
-cleveland style bottom end bearing size
-6 bolt block (top and bottom...splayed of course) that will still allow the use of traditional 4 bolt heads or new 6 bolt heads. the large cu capability mean lower boost levels for still monstrous hp or the blue oval guys could run 6 bolt heads and boost even more and still remain intact.
-offered in aluminum and steel or that graffite you guys have.
-notched for strokers
-locate motor mounts higher on the block so the motor sits lower in the cradle and clears stock 5.0 hoods with little or no mods except for the cross member (k member?) under the engine (if possible). or move it up the side of the block to make the top of the engine at the same height as a standard 5.0 in terms of vehicular height (just having the rest of the motor stick out the bottom...
-siamese cast with coolant cross overs

ford 302 weighs 450 lbs
ford 400 weighs 575 lbs
ford 460 weighs 750 lbs

this block is right in the middle would provide a serious boost for those who want a 6 bolt block and alot more cubes, but not have to jump up to a big block. its the next step up while still being considered a "small block".
i would carry an additional 125 lbs to gain the performance of a 575+ cu cleveland. and with aluminum heads, block and intake, plus light weight cranks, rods, pistons and fly wheels you might be able to get the weight down to that of a stock 5.0 from the factory. 250+ cubes for the same weight and motor height.

there are plenty of head makers for the cleveland and plenty of intakes for the windsor. some are torque monsters like the CHI 185's all the way up to john kaase's c400's for the all out guy.
JEGS engine master competition shows the potential of these heads and a cleveland, its time to bring cleveland back in a huge way! why not phatten up an already sound platform (400m) with some proven DART power tweaks?

you can run alot longer rods for a nasty rod ratio even on strokers or go with up to like 4.5" stroke or something stupid on a phat bore and make a monster. the cubes and breathing of a big block but the size of a small block for only 125 lbs? why not? if starting from scratch, most things are possible..

all you guys would have to do is extend your already great cleveland block to the 400m deck height (10.3) and give it the 4.5" bore spacing you are talking about doing with the SBC. then make a few 400m intakes which would basically be a 351 W style intake with the 351W-400M spacer fabricated in. talk about low research involved...and very low casting changes. we already have pages and pages of after market windsor intake systems that would bolt up with just the spacer. now, include a serious fuel injection unit on a 400m phat stroker and torque would be unimaginable. once the aftermarket saw this block, it would be on like donkey kong for 400M intakes and stroker cranks to catch up.

major difference between this and 460 is its shorter, lighter, smaller over all and parts availablity in intake choice, plus all the cleveland heads and exhaust...its all there.

extend it, phatten it, stroke it, and set mounts so the 5.0 guys can bolt it into a 'stang or the old skewl mustangs, torinos and cougars can upgrade to a serious engine block that bolts to existing stuff. no more trying to squeeze a 460 down the neck of a 5.0.


merry christmas in dart land

[515hptogo]

I would like to see Dart offer the 200cc Pro 1 and Iron Eagle with 2.02 & 2.055 valves but do different castings so the throat size is proper per the valve size

The 2.055 valve head would allow some to use a smaller camshaft and get the same valve area as a larger camshaft and smaller valves

Keep the 215's to 2.055 as thats perfect for them

I would offer the 230's with a 2.08 & 2.10

With the Pro 1's you could use the same castings just a different bowl blend program

I'm in agreement, but I do wonder if leaving the throat sized for the 2.02 valves would increase port flow velocities with a 2.05 valve ? Venturi style effect? Just thinking out loud.......

Paul

[rbrduck71]

rowdyj so good to here someone give the 400m some love, i like your idea!!!