BBC Oil Pressure drop during a run.

[CHUXLUV]

Has anyone noticed that the BBC Big M block will drop oil pressure during a run?
With oil restrictors at .060 and several different oil pump designs the oil pressure recorded by the Qwik Data shows pressure will start dropping to 25/30 lbs as soon as the trans brake is released. A Moroso accumulator was added to help some, Even went to the trouble of replacing cam bearings that only have one hole and that helped some but the problem is still there.Oil pan is 12 quart Moroso with trap doors & newest design Moroso oil pump did not help. We have used a Lunati crankshaft at 4.250 stroke not crossdrilled and a Eagle 4.500 crossdrilled and see no difference. Contact Chuck at chuxluv@peoplepc.com if more info is needed.

[Awesome Bill]

I have had no problems like this at all with the 20385 wet sump pan and even with the old school 20401-20402-20403 nor the 21047 kick out style steel. We have used the m77hv and the 22163/22167 pumps with no oil pressure fluxuation. Actually dyno test prove threw the pull to get better. As with excelleration added into, you oil pan you have is allowing the oil to run of the back of the block and then be whipped up causing cavitation. Sounds like the big old box pan. Looses oil pressue on the gas and off. It is silly to think the block would have anything to do with this. It has no bearing on oil control, except for a larger basement for the larger strokes. Air pumps will also make oil lighter. But, we have had no oil pressure problems with the Big M Dart Blocks.

[corcon]

This might sound crazy but do you have enough oil in the motor?I have a big m block and it is great.I know a guy that added an accumulater but didn't add extra oil and had oil problems.

[CHUXLUV]

Thanks for the replies. To answer the last one first. With the accumulator added there is now 15 quarts oil in the motor and it is used to prelube and during the run.I use Castrol 70 wt motorcycle oil and I prewarm it.
To answer the first reply Bill I see on the computer where the oil pressure drops the same even in the burn out. Oil pressure is about 75 lbs idleing and when on the two step it will go to 90 lbs. at .80 seconds the pressure drops to 50 lbs and at 2.70 seconds pressure has dropped to 30 lbs. Pressure will hover around 30/35 lbs through the run 4.64 @ 158 average. At the end of the run when I let off and at about 5.40 seconds pressure will climb back to 60 lbs. At about total run time of 10 seconds the motor rpm is 3500 slowing down for the turn and pressure jumps up and down around 20/30 lbs and by this time the accumulator would be empty of main pressure.
I don't know how the oil pan could be the problem as it is a really trick Moroso piece it has a starter kick out and three trap doors.But Bill you could be right as this problem has started when I started using the Moroso oil pan. I used to use the Moroso steel pan #20405 and added a windage screen to it. When I went to the 4.50 stroke & with the Brooks 65 aluminum rods it would not clear. Come to think of it that is when I started with this Dart big m block. Never had a problem with the bowtie /cnc blocks and the other oil pan but needed the strength and clearance at the bottom for the big stroke. Well back to the smaller stroke and other oil pan to see if the problem goes away. I keep in touch and let you know how it works out.

Best regards
Chuck Poindexter
Paint & Performance Svc.Ctr.
1205 Masonic Dr.
Lancaster,Texas 75146
(972) 227-7910 or 7911
Tue-Fri 9.00 to 6.00 Sat 9.00 to 3.00
http://luvracn.homestead.com/Index.html

[Awesome Bill]

Don't do anything yet, What type of oil filter are you using, does it have a bypass? The 70 weight oil is garbage. Do you know how much plastic is in that stuff? Running that weight oil with all the plastic will kill a paper element even with a bypass. Why do you run that thick oil? It only kills ring seal and promotes detonation. Like I said, let me know what filter you have and I bet your oiling problem has nothing to do with the pan, pump, oiling sytem. We just had 2 engines on the dyno with the same problem when getting into the hard stages of the dyno pull. Both were fixed with a small change.

[CHUXLUV]

Bill, I have been using Vavoline 50 wt for years but I was told with the horsepower I have now I should run the 70 wt. I have tried several racing type oil filters and have tried reading data on oil pressure before and after the oil filter and seen no variance at either end and no change with either of the different type racing oil filters I have tried. If it was a filter restriction I would have seen a pressure difference on the Qwik Data when it is reading before and after the filter.
I have tried to run with the factory bypass and with it ( plugged as I have done for years ) and see no difference in the oil pressure. Several pumps,pickups and the only changes from what I was using is the Dart block and the tricked out, kicked out pricey aluminum oil pan.
So my assumption would have to be one or the other.
Any suggestions?

Best Regards
Chuck Poindexter
Paint & Performance Svc.Ctr.
1205 Masonic Dr.
Lancaster,Texas 75146
(972) 227-7910 or 7911
Tue-Fri 9.00 to 6.00 Sat 9.00 to 3.00
http://luvracn.homestead.com/Index.html

[Awesome Bill]

Lets see how much we know about oil filters. Paper will not allow enough oil to pass threw it to run a briggs. Paper is the worst case material for oil flow. If you don't think so, take some paper and pour oil on it and see how long it takes to get it to come threw. Then, add that thick old polymere 70 weight 50 weight junk you've been running and its like you trying to pass a 7mm kidney stone? Ever tried that. The reason you see no difference in your oil pressure before or after, is that when the bypass that will pop open @ 5lbs of restriciton so you are having the oil run a little circle without any filtration. So when you plug the bypass, you now have to blow holes threw the paper filter to get the thick goo that you use to go threw it. VERY BAD. The reason you use the sticky mess is some sort of safety blanket the manufacture of that garbage has gotten you to belive he oil is way better than the rest of the stuff you have been using. We use 10/10 racing oil in every Pro Mod NOS engine we build. The oil does not lubricate anything, it just carries the DI of the oils make up to the parts for protection. Then takes heat away. I bet you $200 bucks, the cost of my filter that is made for me, lifetime warranty and usage I may add, will make more hp, give you killer o/p and will give you 100% oil flow and filtration. Plain and simple. It is not a clothe or paper element. Any time you want to see how your engine is doing, you just unscrew the filter cartridge the goes right in the stock place, no need for any trick stuff, check the small magnets for debri, should not be any if the engine guy and the parts are what they say they are, wash it out with brake clean over a clear plastic bowl and you will hopefully see nothing. Our filters allow you to maintain a confidnence of knowing your engine is o.k. P.S. we don;t need glue in our oil to keep a cushion of protection. Thats already built into it from our machine work and assembly procedures. Let me know if you are interested.

[CHUXLUV]

Well said Bill, I am interested in what you have. Is it better than the System 1 or the Oberg that I have using? 10 wt oil in a high horse powered blown motor seems a little lite weight !
Who uses it in their race cars and what horsepower do they have. I will be interested and would like to be convinced in some way. Chuck

[Awesome Bill]

I can't speak for other engine builders but I do know personally that most synthetic oil companies try to keep this under wraps. They want you to stay stupid so they can continue to reap the profits
1. . The base # in the multi grade of oil is really what the oil is when it is around 180°'s. So if you have 10-40, when its cold the polymer, the 40wof the oil, coils up like little pig tails. When its hot it goes straight and gives the base, which is 10w, the ability not to get any thinner, or what they say loose their viscosity. You have to remember, OIL DOES NOTHING by itself. It is a carrier of the heavy metals and heat to and from the engine parts that are suspect to loads and rubbing. The other chemcials that are in the oils DI are to help make it longer lasting and not eat your engine.
2. If you take oil and remove all the chemicals, and heavy metals that are put into it, it just makes things slippery. No different than KY jelly. It has no ability ot protect against pressures and loads, and of course heat.
3. Everyone knows that chlorine is a pretty good ep/agent. But, it will eat the inside of the engines soft metals right out and leave everything is a rusty condition after just a few days. If you don't believe me, ask the people who used a EOS, "engine oil supplement", called Pro something. Many people lost their engines. Yeah it would run with no oil in the base and you could squirt water on it while it was running. Looked cool, but it was so hot, it would eat the anything in the engine including the screen on the oil pump pick up right out of the engine along with making it a rust bucket.
4. So there are a ton of extreme pressure/ anti wear agents that you can use to keep the engine from rubbing itself to death. 50w/70w oil does have some zinc or sulfur in it but it is loaded with liquid plastic. In fact, that does absolutely nothing to protect an engine. It is a cheap filler. Noo different than putting crackers in the meat loaf of a poor mans house to make it go further to trick their kids bellies. There are things it does do! It keeps your ring seal terrible, causes rings to unload because of the polymer finding its way under your rings. Put heat and pressure on oil with plastic and most people have seen the 4.6 low tension oil rings stick like glue. Its just like sugar in your tank. If will fill it up and lock it up. Every see plastic melting? Sure you have, thats what happens in your engine at 260° and, it actually has tricked you with good advertisement, that you have a protection.
Actually 50/70 weight oils hurt your engine 10 times more than 10/10 weight. Why? Because it takes 5-7 times longer for the oil to get to the part that needs the pressure agents to protect them. and with most of you guys, you have to heat it up before you can use it or you'll snap the oil pump shaft or break a belt. If you have to heat something to get it to move, that should tell you something right there. The ability for it to move when its cold causing parasitic drap? Wonder what that does to E.T?
5. Also, it is cut like a bad bag of crack, it so far from the good stuff, or so thin because of the cracker fillers that the rate to ratio of good chemicals or agents is depleted. The country has been sold a bill of goods when it comes to oil that it does not know about and worst yet, are willing to take anyones word or claim that says theirs is better because of some red, purple, blue, green color oil works better.
6. Ever wonder why synthetic oil has a color? Makes you think it special! Thats what my moms said about her meatloaf when we were kids. But, to use a color agent and keep it suspended, you have to use drivers to keep it from separating. When you use drives, they usually end with ZENE. These things will kill you. Anything with that in it will have a tb factor under 7. means your engine is acidic.
7. Also, after being synthetic, which starts out with 27% plastic right from the get go, they don't tell you this, then they add the color agents, then the drivers to keep the color from separating and you get less of the sulfur, phosfurous, boron, maganeze zinc, etc etc etc. So you wind up with less of the good stuff and plenty of the crackers. They taste good going down, but wheres the beef?
8. There is no such thing as synthetic oil. Mobil oil lost that battle so we won't even go there. Its all garbage without the extreme pressure and anti wear agents. Thick oil is just a blanky to a racers mind. Hope the bearings will stay in there if we pack it full of plastic. Do your research, don't ask an oil company to reveal this, they won't. You need a chemist and some brains.
9. As for engine builders, most of them don't know a thing about this, the smart ones keep it quite because they want their stuff to live and run good. But most are as clueless as most people sold this garbage. Ever wonder why GM used Mobil 1 in their Vetts. It wasn't because it was good, it was free. Greatest advertisement in the world.
10. Don't get me wrong, I like some synthectic oils and Mobil 1 does it just as good or better than anyone else. It will work and your engine with proper oil changes will live. But, it still starts out 27% plastic filler. Our 10/10 oils have no plastic in them, and is loaded with extreme pressure and anti wear agents. That is why our 10/10 is a little pricey. I wonder why the synthetic oil companies are priced so high. If I want crackers in my meat loaf, I'll choose to put them there, but don't put them there and not tell me. Thats unethical. Use your own judgment with this one here. Just think about it, it makes sense. BASE OIL IS NOTHING WITHOUT THE DI. Like a man without a woman. LONELY.

[CHUXLUV]

OK,Very well explained Bill now what oil filter do I use and how do I get the 10-10 oil?? Chuck

[Awesome Bill]

I use the PURE POWER Billet Aluminum set up. I can ship you the 10/10 oil in 5 or 55 gallons drums. You will see that this oil will not loose any HP even after 20 Runs. It just keeps taking it. With most Oils I have dyno tested, as quickly as 6 hard pulls, you can see the engine falling off from the oil. This oil is actually cheaper than most of the expensive plastic filler Sythetics out there but will protect under the most extreme conditons and you can run it twice as long. Give me a ring @ 302-436-4200