Do any Top Ford race Teams use Dart Pro 1 heads.

[2stangs69-91]

I can not find to much info on them out there. I just read a post on a engine forum saying the Ford racers in The Fun Ford classes ,and NMRA do not use the dart Pro 1 heads because they can not compete with AFR, Trick Flow, and Brodix. I find that hard to believe, Any info on performance test comparing the Darts to those heads would be nice. I am going to use them and like to think I made a wise choice Thanks Mike

[Dart331stroker]

There are racers who run in the NMRA who use Dart. Although Dart does not offer a rolled valve angle head, or a canted valve type of product. Darts heads are very comparable to offerings from other companies. Test I have seen using Dart versus other companies Dart has made equal power, even though their heads "appear to flow less" at least when you compare everyones "advertised" flow numbers. Thats one of the reasons you dont see Dart advertise flow numbers. I kind of looked at it like this when I purchased my Dart heads for my 331 Ford stroker engine. They have heads used by top racing classes all over the world, holding records, beating the competition, so if their stuff is bad a$$ enough to do that on a real race car, then I would say it would be easy for them to make a head for my little 450hp street car! I have never seen anyone at a NHRA event running some of those other brands! A local shop I know of had a Roush built crate engine which had all kind of problems right out of the crate with oil fouling the plugs, after two sets of heads, they switched to the Darts, even though the Dart heads flowed less air, they moved more fuel and made 12 more hp. And the best part no more of the oil burning issue. If you get a chance go to an NHRA or IHRA national event walk through the sportman pits and ask racers whose parts they like! Its not a mistake that companies like Reher Morrison, Scott Shafiroff, Gart Stinnett and more use Darts on their engines, it because they know their stuff works!

Just my $.02

[2stangs69-91]

thanks for the info. I just don't understand the lack of info on Dart sbf heads there is in the Ford racing classes. I spent alot of time on sbf forums and they just are not getting respect. I will work on changing that with my combo :D

[Awesome Bill]

But check out everything that is running the Dart Heads. They have the entire Chevy Industry coverd with some of the best heads available if not the best, being used. As far as the Fords, they are just as good as anyones and maybe better being they are still fairly new at this with the Fords. You can only do so much and put so much effort into it at every particular stage you are at.

[2stangs69-91]

I found a team running them in NMRA renegade. they are very competetive. i just like reading all the info I can on them. I hope they start gaining the respect they deserve in the mustang racing ranks.

[Dart Vader]

You bring up a very interesting point here. Although our Ford stuff is very good, awareness of it is still growing.
I'm going to post an article that Ford Muscle did a while back on our Ford heads in the news section of the website.

I appreciate the opportunity to get some outside feedback on the perception of our products.
Thanks for speaking up on this topic!

[Awesome Bill]

I have asked a few racers this same question whom we do Ford engines for, and the 2 we just done had said they could get no headers for the 3" header flange. I did call a few peopel and only 1 company made a header. Even Cook at that time did not have a really nice shelf hi-performance head for a SBF 400-462 2" tube header. Everything was custom. They did have a 2½" exhaust pattern. I had to have a set of headers made for our dyno. So that may be some of the problem. And most of the race heads out there still can be had with 2" and 2½" exhaust bolt patterns. We did have a customer that damaged a set of Air Flows off an engine that had a problem and we got the customer a brand new set of Dart 20° stuff and when we laid the dyno pulls over each one, we had a real 7 hp better right across the board. I don't get really excited about 1-5 but 7 gets my attention. This was a back to back test. And as everyone knows, a brand new set of rings does not make as much hp as a nice set that has been run a while. So that # could even be up to 10 or 12 better/
We will be dyno testing a brand new Dart Aluminum Block (9½" deck height 4¼" crank 462) next week. The customer was dissatisfied with the performance and asked us to build a new engine with the new 18° World head. We are and will be able to see what they make over the AFR also. I think the AFR head while being a very good head, are a little small for a larger engine like 434 and larger. They do run out of air. With any forced induction, the head will work no maktter what. If it don't, you just push it harders. But for naturally aspirated engines, these motors will tell you if the head works. Some of the best heads in the world are made by Motorsport and properly ported by people like Chapman or AFD will fly. So there are many things that are going on and many people with different opinions. Even as good as Darts stuff is for Chevy, they are synominous with Chevy and that rings a bell in a Ford lovers head. Nothing more than that. The big 3 are very competitive and a lot of people do not think that one company can make a Chevy product as well as Dart does and still care about the little old 20° head they make for Ford. Its just the way it is. Now take Edelbrock, they do offer some very nice heads and they have neither side fighting. They are very neutral as well as AFR. You have to remember AFR does not offer that I know of any thing other than a 20° head. This is very old technology and with todays fight for power, a company stuck with only making 20° stuff is not going to do well. But, if you seen DART in the winners circle with a Ford Powered engine and then they come out with a nice head they said they run, Dart would not be able to fill the orders. But they run and win and really have a dedicated line for the GM guys. Not bad for GM but when you only offer the 1 head no matter what runner size, this bites the Ford lovers (real hard core boys) in a way that they won't even consider using the 20° stuff no matter who makes it or how good it is. All the Ford guys who had their street and strip engines hollard for years for Dart to make a head and they did. That market for those guys is very well covered. The Yates, (N) head, Storm, Pro King etc have the field very well covered. So anyone running a 20° head is not going to make to much noise when you have a 15° Edelbrock Head out their making 850 hp with a 434. Hope this helps. jmo

[badazzwindsor]

I found a team running them in NMRA renegade. they are very competetive. i just like reading all the info I can on them. I hope they start gaining the respect they deserve in the mustang racing ranks.

who is this team running the dart ford heads,no one in hot street is using them

[Awesome Bill]

they are not in hot street, if I said that is wrong, we have a few Ford engines getting it done in stick classes and just et racing. We are doing the 462 18° World new head now and will let you know what it does. As well, we are doing a 441 right now with AFR heads for a gentlement in Canada. We are putting a brand new profile from Comp in this engine to see what happens. I will post that also. We just got our new Chapman 15° head in a week ago, not the Glidden head, that thing is to big for me, and they Chapman head is a work of ART. We are building a brand new 434 NOS engine with those and I know this engine will make about 850 @ 7200 when we done. On the spray it will fly. So we have a few Fords we are playing with right now with 3 different set of heads. Sorry, no Dart headed Fords to do. They are all running the DART blocks, thats something good.

[blocker]

Hello, I currently run a set of pro 1 210 cnc heads on a 331 cid ford. I can honestly tell you that I was presently suprised with the power my combo made using the dart head. I work 5 miles away from AFR, and made a decision to use dart because the quality, and i believe the exhaust works better then an AFR. Its a N/A engine that will run high nines at better then 134 mph, remember its 331 cid.

Use the dart head if running a conventional set up.

[want-a-be]

I have asked a few racers this same question whom we do Ford engines for, and the 2 we just done had said they could get no headers for the 3" header flange. I did call a few peopel and only 1 company made a header.


Try Tim Murphy at the Fab Shop. His web site is

http://www.fabshopheaders.com/

He use to work for Steve Schmidt Racing Engines out of Indy. He has built headers for all kinds of racing. He will more than likely make you more HP over your curret header.

Thanks, Don :cool:

[malihoochie]

Kooks has fox body headers on the shelf for the 3" center to center exhaust bolt pattern.

[Awesome Bill]

what is the weight of the car? Did you dyno it and if you did, what did it make and what rpm was it.

[2stangs69-91]

who is this team running the dart ford heads,no one in hot street is using them

Sorry I have not revisited this thread in awhile. The car running them in renegade is the PER car that is shown in the customer rides section of this site. He runs a Mod motor and a pushrod motor.it is a competetive car. As for the headers i am happy to report that I have found a site that makes headers for these heads in Mustangs. Acufab makes headers for them/ these are race headers. They actualy make a set for them in my 69 mustang if you can belive that. I can hopefully get my car running in the near future and give some recent results of the pro1 heads in a blown set up .Maybe if I put up some good numbers Dart will make some Dart SBF valve covers. It would be nice to cap off my Dart block, Dart headed combo with a set.
hint hint....

[carplight]

I have been 5.45@130 in the 1/8 with a set of pro1 225 with 2 stages of nitrous

[Dart Vader]

Sorry I have not revisited this thread in awhile. The car running them in renegade is the PER car that is shown in the customer rides section of this site. He runs a Mod motor and a pushrod motor.it is a competetive car. As for the headers i am happy to report that I have found a site that makes headers for these heads in Mustangs. Acufab makes headers for them/ these are race headers. They actualy make a set for them in my 69 mustang if you can belive that. I can hopefully get my car running in the near future and give some recent results of the pro1 heads in a blown set up .Maybe if I put up some good numbers Dart will make some Dart SBF valve covers. It would be nice to cap off my Dart block, Dart headed combo with a set.
hint hint....

Funny you should mention that, we will be making SBF top end kits available soon and, as a function thereof, SBF valve covers.
We don't have them ready yet, but I would expect within a month or two we'll have them.
The part number for them is 68000110.

[MadDAWG]

Are they going to be avaliable in a black version? They would be sweet with my black EFI intake.

[Awesome Bill]

Well so much for the Motown 18° head, we lost power over the ARF stuff we had on the engine to the tune of over 50HP. Not to mention no one makes a shaft rocker for it and the combustion chamber did not do very well. We had to run 40° lead timing to even get it back to 650hp and that was a gift. The car before @ best run 9.64 and now with back to back same short blocks, the best has been 10.04. We did change the camshaft for much better flowing heads and I would venture to say if we intstalled his old cam back, knowing what I know now, the engine would of come within 25 hp of where is was less. I have heard Kuntz is working with a CNC program right now, we will see. I will take the AFR or DART 225 cc fully cnc ported heads over th 18° stuff for sure.

The Gentleman in Canada is running 9.50's and that is as fast as he wants to go with his Ranger Truck. He is a bracket racer and with his 462" AFR headed SBF, the engine done very well. He will not run it any faster because of restrictions in his class and what his car is legal @. So I know he has a ton left.

We are now putting the 15° Champman head on a brand new Bryant cranked 496" SBF with the Dart block. We plan to run raw, the 8.50 index stuff @ Cecil Couty dragway. My son is wanting to drive the new car with me still driving the updated Camaro for this year. Will let you know what we get

[want-a-be]

Heck...we are on the wrong site...we need to move to the AFR forum then...

[Dart Vader]

Are they going to be avaliable in a black version? They would be sweet with my black EFI intake.

Sorry, no color options are available to my knowledge.

[PRO 1]

Hot Street uses raised port heads, and the vast majority of them use Edelbrock castings. I say castings because that is what they are buying, they are not buying any technology just a cast head that a head porter/engine builder uses to make a head that works. Not knocking Edelbrock here just want it to be known Hot Street cars dont buy premade or pre ported heads from any company. We have a Hot Street racer here, and he uses the Edelbrock heads, we know them very well, and we also know that the baddest Hot Streeter out there also uses them.

EFI Renegade, PER uses them, and the car is fast, and runs strong. There are alot of guys who use them in other classes as well.

It is not that Dart does not make a good Ford head, just that we came to the party late, so we dont get noticed like the rest. I can assure anyone out there we did our homework, we can tell you what Ford head has a nice chamber, exhaust port, valve job, intake port, and who has a nice casting. We did our homework very well, and while all the heads out there all had one or two good things going for them, none of them put it all together, until we did it.

Like I tell guys everyday, if you are looking to build an engine makign anywhere between 400-700 N.A. we have a head to do it, if you are looking to make 400-1500 boosted we have heads to do it... Just depends on what you want.

Thanks
PRO 1