Looking for 9's

[underdog]

Happy Holidays to all !

I'm getting ready to pull my stuff down and would like some help.

Last year I put a bottom end in with a Scat kit forged crank, H beam rods, 12.9 SRP pistons. Top end has Dart Pro 1 215's that are CNC ported, Isky 524 I 534 E 244 and 248 @ .050 110 centerline cam , Vic Jr. intake , 750 DP DF Holley. 456 gears with a spool 31.0 x 14.0 x 15 with ladder bars.

Car is a 68 Chevelle at about 3000 pounds. I bracket race with a 60 foot of 1.50
1/4 mile times are at 10.50's on good air and 128 MPH at 7200.

It has a Powerglide with 1.82 gear set and a 4500 API stall converter

Over the last two years I have gone from a 12.7 car down to 10.50's but would really like to get in the low to mid 9's. What can I do without going to the bottle, I've always been a chest man !

Thanks

[want-a-be]

What cubic inch is this engine? What cc chamber are you running? How far down the hole are the pistons? What vic intake are you running? What RPM are you shifting at? How much dome do your pistons have? in inches not CCs.

With out knowing a lil' more info. I'd do this if it hasn't already been addressed.

Deck the so the pistons are no more the .005 in the block.
Deck the heads to either 60-62 CCs. Could go more if you want, but I'd look at a few key areas before going any farther.
Depending on which vic intake you're running I'd try some different spacers under the carb.
Cam is a bit small. Need to bump the lift to around .630"-.650" at the valve, and the duration to around 272° @ .050". Keep the LSA to around 110-112. Make sure you have enough piston to valve clearance. Fo the lift.
Use 1.6 Rockers on both In & Ex, make sure you consider this when you pick out your new cam.
When going to the 1.6 rockers you will have to take a look at your push rod length. The rocker wipe across the valve will more then likely change. If so then you'll need to figure out how much longer or shorter push rod you'll need to get it corrected. Plus pay attention to the push rod guide clearance.
Knock the sharp edges off the domes of the pistons. Don't get too wild with it as you need the compression. But this will help smooth out the flame front as it travels across the dome. I'd sacrifice 1 point of compression in order to have a non-turbulent flame front going across the piston dome. JMO...
After doing a cam change you might be looking at a stall change. I'd go for around 5200-5500 if it were mine. Wouldn't go any higher though. But I'd try what you have first.
Run a head gasket around .041"-045" thick.

After this...you need to look at you front and rear suspension for more ET. You'd be surprised as to how much ET is hidden in some chassis'.

Hope this helps. This ought to do for a start.

If you need any help or have any questions feel free to ask or pm me.

Don

[jokesman]

I tried to go Christmas shopping last year, but I didn't have no money. I just went window-shopping with a brick.

[dmartin1962]

looking for 9 second passes is not hard with what you have to stat with but n2o
is what you should be looking at,i am no expert but have been where you are
and went where you want to go........
adding a good n2o system is like having 2 different cars,a consistant bracket car
as it is now and a faster one when you want it to be. the cost is not cheap to do it right by the time you get you fuel and ignition systems where they need to be
but the fun factor is off the charts with spray.....maybe bill will chime in as he seems to have a wealth of knowledge in this area.
dan

[want-a-be]

Juice it if you have too,...but I don't like running it myself. N/A is the way to go imo.

Don

[underdog]

What cubic inch is this engine? What cc chamber are you running? How far down the hole are the pistons? What vic intake are you running? What RPM are you shifting at? How much dome do your pistons have? in inches not CCs.

With out knowing a lil' more info. I'd do this if it hasn't already been addressed.

Deck the so the pistons are no more the .005 in the block.
Deck the heads to either 60-62 CCs. Could go more if you want, but I'd look at a few key areas before going any farther.
Depending on which vic intake you're running I'd try some different spacers under the carb.
Cam is a bit small. Need to bump the lift to around .630"-.650" at the valve, and the duration to around 272° @ .050". Keep the LSA to around 110-112. Make sure you have enough piston to valve clearance. Fo the lift.
Use 1.6 Rockers on both In & Ex, make sure you consider this when you pick out your new cam.
When going to the 1.6 rockers you will have to take a look at your push rod length. The rocker wipe across the valve will more then likely change. If so then you'll need to figure out how much longer or shorter push rod you'll need to get it corrected. Plus pay attention to the push rod guide clearance.
Knock the sharp edges off the domes of the pistons. Don't get too wild with it as you need the compression. But this will help smooth out the flame front as it travels across the dome. I'd sacrifice 1 point of compression in order to have a non-turbulent flame front going across the piston dome. JMO...
After doing a cam change you might be looking at a stall change. I'd go for around 5200-5500 if it were mine. Wouldn't go any higher though. But I'd try what you have first.
Run a head gasket around .041"-045" thick.

After this...you need to look at you front and rear suspension for more ET. You'd be surprised as to how much ET is hidden in some chassis'.

Hope this helps. This ought to do for a start.

If you need any help or have any questions feel free to ask or pm me.

Don
Thanks for the input.

It's a 383 64 CC chamber head 6" rods with a 3.750 stroke I shift at 7000 if I run the 1/4 and6600 on the 1/8. I have a 2" open spacer on the vic jr intake and 1.5 rockers. Open full length headers are 5/8 tube 30" long with 7" extensions. I tried to find some big tubes but the ones I have found are custom made and pretty costly.

The 4 bolt block is out of an old state truck cut .030 over but not decked other than to clean it up. If I remember the pistons were in the hole .010. The gaskets had a crush thickness of .040

If i go to 1.6 rockers does that increase the lift, change the duration or just make everything happen quicker?

The front spings have been cut to lower the car and has stock shocks. The rear has been cut out for tubs and ladder bars with a Dana 60 rear, coilover shocks. I don't know the spring rate but they are pretty stiff.

I have seen a lot of really nice stuff destroyed here at my local track using spray so I don't think I want to go that way. When your scared say your scared. I'm scared of the juice !

[want-a-be]

Thanks for the input.

It's a 383 64 CC chamber head 6" rods with a 3.750 stroke I shift at 7000 if I run the 1/4 and6600 on the 1/8. I have a 2" open spacer on the vic jr intake and 1.5 rockers. Open full length headers are 5/8 tube 30" long with 7" extensions. I tried to find some big tubes but the ones I have found are custom made and pretty costly.

The 4 bolt block is out of an old state truck cut .030 over but not decked other than to clean it up. If I remember the pistons were in the hole .010. The gaskets had a crush thickness of .040

If i go to 1.6 rockers does that increase the lift, change the duration or just make everything happen quicker?

The front spings have been cut to lower the car and has stock shocks. The rear has been cut out for tubs and ladder bars with a Dana 60 rear, coilover shocks. I don't know the spring rate but they are pretty stiff.

I have seen a lot of really nice stuff destroyed here at my local track using spray so I don't think I want to go that way. When your scared say your scared. I'm scared of the juice !

If you go to the 1.6 rockers you'll increase your lift to..... .559" / .572". Even if you stay with this cam, the 1.6 rockers will free up some ET for you. But I'd still consider a different cam. I have used an off the shelf Crane Cams grind that you can get for pretty cheap. But like I said...you'll have to pay attention to push rod length. It won't just be a change of rockers...or usually isn't.

Are you still running mech/vac advance in the distributor? If so...it's my opinion that you ought to lock it out to full advance. What distributor are you running. If you need any help with locking it out i'll be glad to walk you through it.

If the pistons are .010 in the deck you'll be ok with that. Stick with the .040" gasket. Could even tighten up the quench a bit with a .038" gasket.

I think you need to get the correct springs into the front end. Longer lighter springs will help the chassis sepperate better in both the front and the rear. I'd look at around 250# springs on the front and 120#-130# springs on the rear. How is the traction on this chassis combination?

Look for some of the old 90/10 shocks for the front end. They are adjustable from there but you can tune the front movement a lil' better with that shock.

How high off the ground is the front of the ladder bar mounts? What hole is it in...top, middle, lowest? How high is the center line of your cam? Center of the water pump is close enough. Whats the length of your wheel base? How high is the center line of the rear end when you're race ready?

Hooker and headman should make an 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" set of headers that fits that front end.

Don

[underdog]

Thanks

The MSD is locked down and set at 38 BTDC. Ladder bars are level with the ground and in the top hole and the pinion is down in the front by 4 degrees.
I leave at 3000, much more and the car pushes the front end. We can't use a trans brake in our class.
I bought some headman headers 1 3/4 but clouldn't get them past the frame rails and Hooker's have to use an adapter that puts the engine up too high. Makes the transmission and distributer hits the firewall. I guess I could cut it up.
I didn't think of it on my first post but the cam is solid. Think I should go to a roller?

[want-a-be]

Yes,.. the solid roller will help. But you should be able to hit your mark with a soild falt tappet if you'd rather.
You said the heads are 64CCs...have you CCed them or had the decked at all yet? If not...have then CCed then Decked to about 60-62 CCs.
Have you had the first valve job on them yet? Even if they are only 1 year old...they will more then likely need a freshen up on the seats. After the heads season, Heat cycling from running and cooling, the seats and guides will usually move around a little bit. Once they are seasoned, the next valve job will usually last a lot longer. This is just a fact on new heads and blocks, iron or aluminum.
Notching the frame to allow the headers is an easy thing to do. I usually cut up some tubing and weld it back in to reinforce the notched area. Works out real good and looks pretty good also.
The 4° of pinion angle that you have. Is that just the pinion angled down 4° or is it the difference between the pinion and the drive shaft? If it's only in the pinion then you may have more then an actual 4°, which could cause a little bit of a bind. How good do you think the car hooks? Does the chassis sepperate, raise, at all?
Are you running power valves in your carb?

PM me some time if you'd rather talk a bit more some other way, messenger or phone doesn't matter to me.

Don

[underdog]

Thanks again Don,
The 4 degrees ( I don't know how to make that symbol ) is the difference not the actual angle and no I have not had any work done to the heads.
Notching the frame is way over my ability cause I'm just a "parts hanger".
I think the car leaves good. Little tire spin at times but most of the time it leaves like a frog. The hole car jumps up and stays up until I get out of it.
And I do run a power valve in the secondary bowl. It's a 2 or 2.5 cause I don't have much vacuum at idle.

[want-a-be]

you make the ° symbol by holding the Alt key down and typing 0176 on the numbers pad. When you let off the Alt key the ° symbol will show up.

Don

[want-a-be]

Thanks again Don,
The 4 degrees ( I don't know how to make that symbol ) is the difference not the actual angle and no I have not had any work done to the heads.
Notching the frame is way over my ability cause I'm just a "parts hanger".
I think the car leaves good. Little tire spin at times but most of the time it leaves like a frog. The hole car jumps up and stays up until I get out of it.
And I do run a power valve in the secondary bowl. It's a 2 or 2.5 cause I don't have much vacuum at idle.

Glad the pinion angle is correct. I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know this, but it was a concern. The way I read you post I had to ask to be sure. :o
If you live close enough I'd be more then happy to fit the headers in there for you. I've done all kinds of chassis work in the past. Both Circle and Drag, street is kinda a give...lol:rolleyes: By the way it sounds like this thing leaves the line, the correct springs could help you out a bit.
Getting a fresh valve job will help out. I'm betting the actual CCs of the heads are going to be closer to 68 CCs. I could be wrong but...... Just by bringing the compression up on this thing and a cam/rocker change you ought to get to where you are wanting to go. I'll PM you the Crane Cams grind number that I've had pretty good luck with. But if you run the 1.6 rockers with it you'll need to have enough p-v clearance for .630 lift. I'f you're wanting a roller I could help out with that aslo.
Might not be a popular way of thinking....but I'm not a big fan of power valves. They are more of a crutch for a poor tune imo. Might take a bit to get tuned in but, I'd take it out and jet up back there. Start with 10 jet sizes as a rule then tune from there.

Taking the week off...so I'll be in and out alot through out the day. Will also be home for some calls for those that do have my number.:cool:

Don

[Mikey R.]

Don has got you on the right track. Get the car to 60ft better. I think a converter change is in order too. Are you using low tension oil rings? do you run a pan evac system? maybe consider a vacuum pump? I think 9's is not out of reach with your car. How is the fuel system? Definitely a solid roller with more lift and duration. Gonna need to get your heads tuned up with some port work and good valve job. Maybe get them flowed so you can see how big a cam you can use. I'm not a fan of power valves for an all out race car. I would square up the jetting and start out like Don says. How big is the carb? Maybe consider an super victor or dart manifold and a spacer. I'd put 1/ 7/8" headers on it. Is the front frame rails stock? Have you tried flashing the converter off the line instead of loading the chassis?

[Awesome Bill]

Happy Holidays to all !

I'm getting ready to pull my stuff down and would like some help.

Last year I put a bottom end in with a Scat kit forged crank, H beam rods, 12.9 SRP pistons:
The 12.9 pistons does not make 12.9 compression. It would serve you better to TDC the engine before the heads come off and CC the chamber volume so you know what compression you have right now? Until you do this, your guessing. You can borrow a cc burrett and do it your self. Lets just say you are .010 in the hole and your really 12.5:1 compression, either deck the block to 0 or get a Cometic MLS gasket and bring the quench area down to .040 with a .031 gasket. This is cheap, very good HP. Get as much bang for the buck as possible. I personally would go with the gasket because if anything ever has to be decked, your still .010 in the hole.

Top end has Dart Pro 1 215's that are CNC ported:
These heads are fine, be careful about the second valve job, machine shops just like to cut something and then charge you a ton of money and then the head does not flow as well the deeper the valve gets into the seat. Check the valve job and if it needs it, update it to the 50° stuff or even the 55° and you will pick up some top end power cheaply for sure.

Now, all of this is good but if you have a budget, let me know what you can come up with in real money and I will suggest to your the best bang for the buck. If your just trying to fine tune your combination without spending over $1000.00, keep what you have and do the suggestions listed. Most of them you can do your self. This camshaft you have here does not need to be changed in any way but more lift to wake the heads up so rethink what you want to spend and pick out some of these things you can do and go with it. If you have like $2500-5000 to spend, of course go with roller, little looser converter on the bottom end, lightweight rotational parts and engine stuff and have at it.

Isky 524 I 534 E 244 and 248 @ .050 110 center line cam:
This is a killer camshaft but is down on lift. The 1.6 or even 1.7 rocker would pick up 1-2° duration/ & about .050 real lift and really kick the heads in the but with giving up the top end air you need to make good power on the middle to top end power curve.

Victor Jr. Intake:
Match port the intake carefully to the heads, clean all the edges and bumps and humps out. This will pick you up a real 5hp.

750 DP DF Holley:
Power valves are for drive ability. Take them out add 8 jet sizes and make sure you have jet extensions and the bowls are a little over the site plug with fuel level. That is all you need.

456 gears with a spool 31.0 x 14.0 x 15 with ladder bars:
This is perfect, not to big of tire, I would personally be running smaller, but the spools are very heavy. If you have the time find an aluminum one, put titanium bolts in it and back cut the ring gear. This alone will pick you up 1-10th. If you can stand $150.00 dollars, have your axles star flanged, this lightens up the rotating mass and makes the Dana act like a 12 bolt. I have seen 2-10ths just but doing all three. Get rid of the brake drums and install lightweight rotors. Think lightweight on anything moving. Have a carbon fiber drive shaft made up and that will really pick you up but set you back about $700.00 You can spend a $1000 hear and you will pick up more if you spend $2000 on the engine!

Car is a 68 Chevelle at about 3000 pounds. I bracket race with a 60 foot of 1.50
1/4 mile times are at 10.50's on good air and 128 MPH at 7200:
I had a 68 Chevelle with a 6" cowl hood years ago and run 10.00's only because that is what is was legal to, with a pretty mild 454. These cars work well and your combination is done with what information you have given up. Everyone overlooks the obvious when looking for more power when even if you made more power it would not help. PM me here and I can help you out with a little information only years of trial an error knows about.

It has a Powerglide with 1.82 gear set and a 4500 API stall converter:
How do you know it is a 4500 converter?

Over the last two years I have gone from a 12.7 car down to 10.50's but would really like to get in the low to mid 9's. What can I do without going to the bottle, I've always been a chest man:
You can forget that idea about Naturally aspirated running any quicker on your budget. Most of these guys on here have no clue about NOS and the proper usage of it so be careful with just bolting a bottle on and going at it. You will have engine damage. Your combination @ best will only yield 9.90's-10.00's with this engine cranking out 550hp with the suggestions I have made. To make more power, you will need some other parts. But what you have right now to work with, you are finished unless you want to put the engine up around 7600/7800 rpm. This is where you will be with the engine to go from 10.50 to 10.00 with your combination right now.

As far as your chassis goes, if the car leaves straight and does not twist, forget about 90/10 shocks, they do nothing to increase forward motion. I use the cheapest shocks I can get and never look back. Being you have cut the stock springs, this matters little to none @ all. Any car that lifts higher than 1" does not plant the chassis better. Actually it makes the e.t. slower and the forward motion of the car just gets the chance to bend and flex more that actually interferes with normal traction issues. My 68 Camaro, real street car driven whenever there is a place to drive to, has ladder bars and runs quicker on a much smaller tire!. It has no trick front springs, no 90/10 shocks, I think they are Auto Zone Cheapies, has no ANTI ROLL bar and only has a set of good rear coil over shocks. I leave on the wood with the NOS engaged @ Wide Open Throttle every time I leave the line. Take a look at the car on my website in the media section. Cars no where near as fast don't even come close. So I can say, I know how to make your car e.t. quicker and you don't have to purchase a tone of stuff if your stuff was installed correctly. From what I gather, your chassis is pretty good. Let me know if I can help, some things I will not post because of trade knowledge that only comes form trial and error. Mostly years ago mistakes found and proven with actual e.t. and performance. These are just some suggestions to making your car run actually quicker as you would like.

I will tell you if I installed a nitrous system on this car, it would only be a 300 shot at most and with that system installed, your car would run 9.00's with no problems and no explosions on the engine. If you don't know how to use something properly, don't use it. Horse Power is Horse Power, natural or with an adder. If you want to run natural, you will be slower for sure ALWAYS!

Thanks
Think about this and let me know.

[underdog]

Thanks for the input guys

I think I'm going to a Comp cam 572 - 590 lift 304 - 312 duration and change the rockers to 1.6

I just don't know enough about NOS and I don't want to learn the hard way like I usually do !

[Awesome Bill]

Is that the 310B4 camshaft? If it is, you most likely will run no better and most likely you will be slower. Also, here is a note that I just got, there are 22million bad solid lifters that were allowed to enter the pubic service from Standarddine that were not machined and heat treated correctly and this is most likely why we have had issues with flat tappet camshafts. There is really no way to determine which ones are bad and no way to know who has got them. Be careful with your new camshaft break in and let us know what if any help these upgrades done for your. Be Honest!

[underdog]

It's a F-268/3814-2S-6 or part # 111501 from Crane. I was trying to stay with a solid cam so I don't have to change so much.

Think I should keep the same cam but just change the rockers?

Also when I walk around the pits I look around and see most of these cars have 1050 or larger carbs. Some have twins on top. I thought that would kill my bottom end.

I'm just trying to get the most bang for a very small budget.

[Awesome Bill]

Changing more than one thing at a time will kick your butt!. I would try the rockers for sure. Go back and read my reply carefully and slowly.

Think about what I posted on each area addressed. Personally I would not change the camshaft @ this point. If low 10's is what you are after, your already there with some other changing of parts not even related to the engine let alone the engine stuff you can do.

Its not just adding more power. And like I said, even if you threw 50 more hp at your engine, it would run hardly and quicker. This is from what you have told me about what is going on right now. Your combination right now is done! If you don't think so, run your car in the quarter mile and right at the end, put your hand out the window and try to keep it upright. You will surely feel why your car will not excellerate any faster with what you have now. Frontal area versus hp is a mother to comprehend and most people just think more power.

You can put nitrous on it and you will surely see e.t. go down but at great cost to your engine for sure. YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR NOS MISTAKES. Like I said before, Nitrous does not hurt anything, its just improper application of more power and you don't know what to do with it. If you made another 100 hp without or with NOS is it different power? Does the rear wheel no the difference of the power being applied? Does the rear wheel know its being hit with NOS on this pass? Ofcourse not, it is almost silly to think that but that is what people think.

When they say things like "I prefer Natural power" thats just an cover up for not knowing what to do with more power. Not knocking anyones door down here Don and don't take it that way. You have paid your dues but obviously you have expertise in areas other than NOS engines. But power is still power! Power is heat and more heat means you better know what to do with it! If you don't, you will make your customer pay for what you don't know when he should be paying for what you do. At least your honest about it and I respect that.

With ANY POWER, there comes different applications you have to apply. If PRO STOCK engines could have another 200hp thrown on top of them as they run now, they would have to make a ton of changes to use it. But when we do it with NITROUS, we think we can just bolt it on and go. Go rock climbing or snow skiing and not take any lessons first. Your gonna get banged up quick. Even professionals some time get hurt. Look @ Sonny Bono! Been skiing for ever and got in the way of a tree. Same thing with NOS, Blower, Turbo's etc. You better account for the power your going to make, it will make and account of you quickly. Usually by the 600-800 ft mark.

[underdog]

Thanks Bill

[want-a-be]

No offense taken at all Bill,...thanks for heading off any misunderstanding though. It is greatly appreciated.

I do have some experience with NOS. I had a street car and a drag car years ago on it. I just did like having to chase down refilling to bottles all the time. I've actually built/machined alot of engines for NOS and forced induction. I have expereince with about everything to do with race car engines, blowers, small amount of turbos, tons of mechanical injection, and tuning chassis, which some would say I'm pretty good at, they go into. Both circle and drag racing. Biggest differences in the short blocks is piston to wall clearances. IMO that is. Of course there are certian pistons that aren't NOS/Blower/turbo friendly. But like you have said in the past....those kind of decisions are what we get paid for. As Bill knows, we tend to see alot of mistakes being put together. Unfortunatly by the time they get to us they are usually in boxes of carnage. It's hard to explain to someone what it actually takes to build a proper engine. It also doesn't pay us at all. Sometimes it gets under your skin, well mine anyways, a bit when someone says why should I pay you to do what I can for myself.....ect. I usually say,...your right and let them go through the learning curve as to why I get paid for what I/we know.

Do I know it all...absolutely not!!! I learn all the time. Anyone who thinks they do, have limted themselves. In retrospect,... the biggest thing I learned when I started doing high end engines was how little I do actually know. There are always going to be times in the future when you learn something that beats out what people think is correct. The funny thing is...they are usually some kind of mistake. A few examples are,...back when the old sling shot dragsters were the hot lick in Top Fuel. A guy, use to know who but don't now, had a clutch slipping in the finals. He just knew he wasn't going to be able to win cause of it. But he staged and made the finals run just in case the other guy red lit or broke going down the track. He didn't slip a tire, this was when tires were smoking the whole run, and crushed the ET/MPH records by a ton. A few weeks later,... noone was slipping the tires and everyone was slipping the clutch. Next mishap that led to some serious ET/MPH gains was when Kenny Bernstein had the MPH record. As feable memory serves me, he went from 311mph to around 320mph. Thats a ton at those speeds. His car actually had a clucth failure when the last stage of the clutch came in and welded the clutch going across the speed traps. Hence the speed you are seeing today. Course Top fuel and Funny car was taking a close look at what Prostock was doing with their heads about that time in order to get more RPMs out of their engines. But point is...next week the fuel guys came out locking their clutches up in the traps, all cause of a parts failure. I can go on and on about this kind of stuff. But I'm already way off topic as it is. Sorry

I just tend to like the NA stuff better. That being said though,....just today I was considering trying out a twin turbo system for my 48 chevy truck build. I like the idea of the turbos being rear mounted. Trust me,...if my friends here knew that thought had even crossed my mind they would pass out.

Sorry for the long winded post. Must have been in the mood...lol

Don

[Awesome Bill]

Yeah Yeah Yeah, we just keep plugging. It seems I never get tired of the work, I just get tired of the accusations. Only Engine Builders get blammed for everything and seems we fight the most between theirselves which I have picked up and none of us know little to nothing and not get paid for what we know.

Well I find that a little funny when I can run for 2-3-4 years on the same spark plugs and engine with NITROUS and other guys are steady burning their stuff down. Now I don't even say anything because their going to do it theirselves anyway.

Years of doing it wrong I have found is worth a lot. Any time I can learn something that does not cost me is great. Like finding a $20 laying on the ground. If Don, Jake, Even Frank (aka carl) etc etc, sorry if I did not mention you, has something that they have found works or fixes something, they just saved me the mistake.

We are never going to get it right every time and everyone will have opinions on their way or no way but thats o.k. Like Jake said just put on a coat or something. All of us who are in this proffessionally are just that proffessionals. That says we have carved out a living in something most people have not been able to do. We just sometimes still act like we done 20 or so years ago and want the spotlight. Personally I will hold the spotlight for a while and just enjoy what I am doing now.

I have no ill feelings toward anyone in this business @ all. If I did I would then just be jealous. Did that when I was young and thats over.

read eveything that is posted and if Don, Jake or Carl has something I can learn from I do it. Business is business and there is plenty for all. I am a team player and any one I know who does something I don', gets my referral. Works for me fine. But either way, I usually am not the best spokesman but know what to speak when truth or clarification needed. But, I have a few miles on this donkey and still want to keep riding her. Have fun with it or its just a job. Thats my saying don't take it!

[underdog]

I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did.

I was trying to get some ideas from people that know. If I hear things from more than one person I usually go with that because I don't have the money to learn by mistakes like the ones I have already made.

I'm just an old guy trying to have fun and go fast ! Actually, I don't care about fast but quick is a blast !

[lun40119]

You didn't offend me..........not in the least. Glad to have you here.

[want-a-be]

I'm with Jake...you didn't say anything that offended me. For some reason I was in the mood to rant aimlessly...lol...sorry about that. I enjoy reading what everyone who posts here has to say. Well...except the spammers that is. I do have an idea for that BTW Dart Vader if you're intrested. Not sure if it can be done though.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

You did not offend me I am with Don and Jake.