Not pleased with the mian lines on the SHP block

[CNC BLOCKS]

Not impressed with the new SHP main line work as the older blocks were line honed and the newer ones are line bored and I have had to cut the caps and line hone them like a stock block. I figured I would take a pic before I finished cutting the caps

I removed the cpas and cleaned and deburred them and libed the bolts with CMD-3 lube and retorqued them and there was appox. .0009 to hone out to the high side and after every thing was close to size I took the caps off to find this mess. And this has happened on all the line bored blocks and its always number 3 and 4 cap with the biggest problem

Like I have always said line honing sure brings out the imperfections in line boring and this is a perfect example.

As you can see in the pic number 1 and 2 cap are cleaning up fine

Numder 3 cap the left side started to clean up.

Number 4 cap it just started to clean at the parting line on the right side

Number 5 cap is cleaning up fine/

On the block it shows the same thing except on number 4 saddle it line hone a lot of material out of that area.

I guess from now on when we get a new SHP block in we will cut the caps and start from scratch.

Now I can see one block maybe but not the last 3 blocks I have had come in.

The first 7 or 8 blocks that were line honed were fine we just dusted the out to the high side no problem.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CNCBLOCKS/SHPMAINCAPS002.jpg

[want-a-be]

Bad batch maybe? Are the numbers sequential?

Don

[CNC BLOCKS]

Bad batch maybe? Are the numbers sequential?

Don

Don

On the 3 blocks I have from low to high is 82!!!

My guess is the blocks are being line bored on a machine that is machining the first 3 housing bores then it is turned around on a pallet changer and the last 2 are done from there thats why the mismatch.

The one block in the pics when it was finished line honed it shadowed about and inch on each side of the parting line (where the line hone did not touch)

We will see what the customer says when he gets the block and if there is a problem how Dart will handle it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can tell when you start line honing there is a problem with the main line.

I line bore a lot of blocks and never seen anything like this!!!

Like I said line honing bring out the imperfections in line line boring thats for sure and I have 2 line hone set ups one at each shop.

The bitch would be if the customer can get his cam to fit when he is putting the engine together, Only time will tell.

[CNC BLOCKS]

There is a post over on speedtalk if any one want follow this
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14169

Dart was suppose call me last week about the main lines in these blocks but never got a call!!!

[want-a-be]

xoxoxoxo


Don

[PropowerEngines]

Well it seems that everyone at Dart is off holidaying this week. I would not even accept a block that was that bad.
Carl,did you get the blocks direct from dart or warehouse dist??
I had a similar deal with RHS heads and and won't use their crap anymore.
Seems the trend in this industry is to not accept the fact that some bad products are getting out of the factory. I am hoping that dart will come to the table here and make it right. Untill I hear Carl is looked after I will hold off ordering anything from Dart.

[Trmnatr]

Well it seems that everyone at Dart is off holidaying this week. I would not even accept a block that was that bad.
Carl,did you get the blocks direct from dart or warehouse dist??
I had a similar deal with RHS heads and and won't use their crap anymore.
Seems the trend in this industry is to not accept the fact that some bad products are getting out of the factory. I am hoping that dart will come to the table here and make it right. Untill I hear Carl is looked after I will hold off ordering anything from Dart.


Yes, it needs to be taken care of. If Carl cant get it right i wouldnt want the block,, In my opinion if we didnt have 100% of all blocks checked and spec'd to my specs here we would be buying all our blocks from Carl or Mike

Carl, i may give you a shout today, if i dont have a Happy New Year !!

[lun40119]

Carl......thanks again for the heads up. Ill let Keith know. Like I said we planned on honing anyway with the studs. Have a great new year.

[CNC BLOCKS]

This really sucks as the customer does not want the block because it did not clean up at the parting line about an 1/2 an inch on each side of the parting line and there is nothing I can do to make it smaller in that area as it was offset bored from Dart.

And these are suppose to be ready to assemble HMMMMMMMMMM

What sucks it my work is all done!!!!

Well it will be a good write off at the end of the year LOL

[Dart Vader]

We are currently putting together a report that will address these concerns and expand on the information available about the production process for these blocks.

I will post a link to it here as soon as it's done.

[CNC BLOCKS]

We are currently putting together a report that will address these concerns and expand on the information available about the production process for these blocks.

I will post a link to it here as soon as it's done.

No one called me last week on this issue, Even if they left the main line .003 tight I don't have a problem line honing .003 out it when you have to go a cut the caps is a pain in the ass and trying to cut the caps square with out cutting the sides so the caps look good.

The one that did not clean up at the parting line the customer does not want so I am in a bind on that one!!!!!!

Thanks keeep me posted.

[Dart Vader]

No one called me last week on this issue, Even if they left the main line .003 tight I don't have a problem line honing .003 out it when you have to go a cut the caps is a pain in the ass and trying to cut the caps square with out cutting the sides so the caps look good.

The one that did not clean up at the parting line the customer does not want so I am in a bind on that one!!!!!!

Thanks keeep me posted.

Will keep you posted. Sorry no one called you back, not sure what happened there - it's extremely hectic around here right after the holidays.

[Tokyo Torquer]

Carl,

You buy a lot of Dart blocks.. I am sure Dart will make you right.

mike

[Trmnatr]

Carl,

You buy a lot of Dart blocks.. I am sure Dart will make you right.

mike


True ! BUT i get so sick of that

I have had a given apart not available to me through the given supplier/maker BUT Jegs had it in stock, I told the customer so he ordered it from Jegs, About 3 months later it was bad but only been used a few times. They told him it was out of warranty, I called the supplier as i deal direct with them and they knew about his problem and they said "oh, ok, send it back to us and we will replace it"

Now, thats nice companies do things like that for people that buy from them but that is BULL CRAP,,,, It doesnt matter if i buy it from then or Joe down the road buys it,,,, It was a sale and it needed warranty,,

Just because we buy more product doesnt mean we should be treated better than the consumer, the consumer is the one that spreads bad things quickly

[Dart Vader]

True ! BUT i get so sick of that

I have had a given apart not available to me through the given supplier/maker BUT Jegs had it in stock, I told the customer so he ordered it from Jegs, About 3 months later it was bad but only been used a few times. They told him it was out of warranty, I called the supplier as i deal direct with them and they knew about his problem and they said "oh, ok, send it back to us and we will replace it"

Now, thats nice companies do things like that for people that buy from them but that is BULL CRAP, It doesnt matter if i buy it from then or Joe down the road buys it, It was a sale and it needed warranty,

Just because we buy more product doesnt mean we should be treated better than the consumer, the consumer is the one that spreads bad things quickly
What would make you think that our service policy operates this way?

Providing poor customer service to the people who end up using your product is not a very smart way to do business...

[Trmnatr]

What would make you think that our service policy operates this way?

Providing poor customer service to the people who end up using your product is not a very smart way to do business...

I didnt

Read the QUOTE that i QUOTED by Tokyo Torquer that said the following
" Carl,

You buy a lot of Dart blocks.. I am sure Dart will make you right.

mike "

That message is saying that due to the volume Carl does with Dart it will be taken care of promptly in his opinion. which is great

The whole meaning of my post is " a dollar is a dollar " and it doesnt matter who spent the dollar

The example i gave is not a part from Dart but another supplier and i will not say their name, they wouldnt warranty it for the customer but did for me,

The whole point behind my post was to say it doesnt matter who bought the part, when the part is bad, it needs to be taken care of regardless of is its Dart, Comp, Crane, Lunati, Scat, Eagle, Callies etc,,,, They ALL are gonna make a defective part,, again we are all human

I use all Dart and have only had 2 problems,

[Dart Vader]

That message is saying that due to the volume Carl does with Dart it will be taken care of promptly in his opinion. which is great

The whole meaning of my post is " a dollar is a dollar " and it doesnt matter who spent the dollar
The example i gave is not a part from Dart but another supplier and i will not say their name, they wouldnt warranty it for the customer but did for me,

The whole point behind my post was to say it doesnt matter who bought the part, when the part is bad, it needs to be taken care of regardless of is its Dart, Comp, Crane, Lunati, Scat, Eagle, Callies etc, They ALL are gonna make a defective part, again we are all human

I use all Dart and have only had 2 problems
Ahh my bad. Sorry, I misunderstood!

[gremmen]

All this makes me wonder how many people have ordered assembled blocks from any company and don't know there may have been this problem with their mains.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Good question as mt block there are between high and low, But one block was wors then the others but none I don't feel could have been assembeld as is.

One other note on the earlier blocks I did not have to touch the lifter bores and the last 2 blocks I have to hone .001 to .0012 to ge .8438 and I double check with a go gauge I have ued for years after the lifter bore honing is done.

[Dartengbuilder]

I heard about this post from a customer who I was selling an engine to using one of the Dart SHP blocks. He told me to read it, and was to the point of cancelling his engine build with us due to this post. We have built about 15-18 of these this year and honestly have never had to rehone the mains, lifters, or cam tunnel in any of them. Clevite even mentions to refrain from measuring parting lines, as they make their bearings with parting line relief to allow for cap twist, or cap shift during removal and reinstallation. We have found inconsistencies in crank journal specs than blocks, and when we build motors it is after all our jobs to measure all these parts. WE measure main housing specs, we then check it with bearings, and check the bearings for taper, then we check the cranks for for size, and again taper. At this point we can mix and match bearing shells, with the crank and main specs known we can get the clearances we are looking for.

Lifter bores, we use a brand who is the smaller size, and they give us the desired clearances, we could buy a different brand and would have to hone them all to fit those lifters, again this is normal part of building engines. After market lifter companies make their lifters in various sizes, as an engine builder we know this as when rebuilding OEM blocks the lifter bores are shot, and need the lifters to be a little bigger to tighten up the tolerances.

It is a shame to see post like this, that just harms the uneducated consumers decision making process, as they now think there is something wrong. When there is not..

I know in speaking with Dart, that originally they line honed the SHP blocks, this was temporary until their custom tooling was made to allow them to machine the mains to size... You can actually see this process on their website. I think it is their dartheadstv.com site or something like that. We have not seen a problem, and highly recommend using these blocks. Dart makes a good part, the price on these things is awesome, and we can not get them fast enough in our shop.

AS for comparing a NASCAR engine machine shop that might say maybe make 150 blocks a year, built to be used with the same crank, lifters, cam tunnel, and cylinder bores over and over, to a shop that builds a few hundred blocks a week to be used with various cranks, pistons, lifters, cams, and rods is unjust.

If Dart was building just for one customer to use the same specs over and over, they too could do that.

If you are unsure of Dart and their capabilities head on up to their shop, I personally have taken the time to do this, and I also have had the pleasure to be in a CUP shop, totally different worlds. Dart has machinery that dwarfs what is used in the CUP shops, due to their production, they need machines that can machine tens of thousands of parts before needing a rebuild, not a few hundred or so...

Just my $.02

A HAPPY DART user!

[Trmnatr]

I heard about this post from a customer who I was selling an engine to using one of the Dart SHP blocks. He told me to read it, and was to the point of cancelling his engine build with us due to this post. We have built about 15-18 of these this year and honestly have never had to rehone the mains, lifters, or cam tunnel in any of them. Clevite even mentions to refrain from measuring parting lines, as they make their bearings with parting line relief to allow for cap twist, or cap shift during removal and reinstallation. We have found inconsistencies in crank journal specs than blocks, and when we build motors it is after all our jobs to measure all these parts. WE measure main housing specs, we then check it with bearings, and check the bearings for taper, then we check the cranks for for size, and again taper. At this point we can mix and match bearing shells, with the crank and main specs known we can get the clearances we are looking for.

Lifter bores, we use a brand who is the smaller size, and they give us the desired clearances, we could buy a different brand and would have to hone them all to fit those lifters, again this is normal part of building engines. After market lifter companies make their lifters in various sizes, as an engine builder we know this as when rebuilding OEM blocks the lifter bores are shot, and need the lifters to be a little bigger to tighten up the tolerances.

It is a shame to see post like this, that just harms the uneducated consumers decision making process, as they now think there is something wrong. When there is not..

I know in speaking with Dart, that originally they line honed the SHP blocks, this was temporary until their custom tooling was made to allow them to machine the mains to size... You can actually see this process on their website. I think it is their dartheadstv.com site or something like that. We have not seen a problem, and highly recommend using these blocks. Dart makes a good part, the price on these things is awesome, and we can not get them fast enough in our shop.

AS for comparing a NASCAR engine machine shop that might say maybe make 150 blocks a year, built to be used with the same crank, lifters, cam tunnel, and cylinder bores over and over, to a shop that builds a few hundred blocks a week to be used with various cranks, pistons, lifters, cams, and rods is unjust.

If Dart was building just for one customer to use the same specs over and over, they too could do that.

If you are unsure of Dart and their capabilities head on up to their shop, I personally have taken the time to do this, and I also have had the pleasure to be in a CUP shop, totally different worlds. Dart has machinery that dwarfs what is used in the CUP shops, due to their production, they need machines that can machine tens of thousands of parts before needing a rebuild, not a few hundred or so...

Just my $.02

A HAPPY DART user!

I use Dart also,,,,

Im gonna get a chance this week to talk to Carl,,, After posting to Carl a few times and ignoring all posts including his (sorry Carl),,,, I think what he is saying is the mains are out of alignment with each other meaning the centerlines so he line hones it and they are still out but the tolerance is too loose so he machines the caps and re-hones and still nothing

Sometimes you got to read the original post only like i just did,, i will report back if this is indeed the case or maybe Carl will drop by here and answer

[PRO 1]

Check out the video as mentioned by the Dart user who posted. It shows the line bore being machined, the caps are married to the block prior to the main bore and the cap i.d. being "finished".

Finished: machined to the middle to low side of the main bore, with the SHP that number is 2.6407-2.6417.

Original SHP blocks through 398 were machined then honed to size, so they were roughed in to 2.6376-2.639, then honed to the spec listed above. This was changed to machined to size, machine to size is perfect, there is no reason to have a cross hatch on the mains, the bearing will sit in the saddle either way. The main thing here is the crankshaft finish, and the bearing fitment.

As mentioned in someones post before me, Clevite says not to measure at the parting line, this is due to the fact that when removing, and installing the main caps you can get a variance in the parting line area. That is why the bearings have a parting line relief machined into it, they recommend measuring about .375 away from the parting line due to this occuring. A bearing will measure thickest about 90° from the parting line and will decrease towards the parting line.

This information can be found in Clevites catalog on page 57 and 61, in the 2003-2204 catalog I have.

Year to date we have sold alot of these blocks to several engine builders. They have been measured in many shops and most have used them without ANY additional machine work. But there is also a few who have done some additional honing, but that is a factor of a collection of parts and the need to "blueprint" the engine to fit the parts they have.

I have spent a few days talking to engine customers who have purchased several of these and none of them had any complaints. The most common thing we heard from builders was that they were a good usable part right out of the box, with the exception of honing the cylinder bores. Some may have honed the mains, or lifters to fit their desired parts, but that was pretty much the bulk of work they did.

During the PRI show where we had these on display, several engine builders commented how well these were machined, and spoke about their Rottler machines when indexing and probing the machined areas that all of the critical areas were better than they could ask for, for a production part that is sold at an affordable price, to a specific customer.

To buy a block for less than $1500.00 and have it as finished as it is, it a great deal.

As Dart has always said we stand behind our parts, the machining and castings are covered against manufacturers defects in materials and workmanship.

I have stayed away from posting to this, as a employee of the company who is being talked about it is often frowned upon when we reply, often we get attacked about our post and responses, however I felt compelled to answer some questions. I think overall it is unfair and unnecessary for anyone in the '"biz" to slam anyones parts, or quality of work without doing some research. I guess that is just how i operate, I never have spoken negatively on an open forum about somones parts, even when I could have.

Thanks
Pro 1

[CNC BLOCKS]

I heard about this post from a customer who I was selling an engine to using one of the Dart SHP blocks. He told me to read it, and was to the point of cancelling his engine build with us due to this post. We have built about 15-18 of these this year and honestly have never had to rehone the mains, lifters, or cam tunnel in any of them. Clevite even mentions to refrain from measuring parting lines, as they make their bearings with parting line relief to allow for cap twist, or cap shift during removal and reinstallation. We have found inconsistencies in crank journal specs than blocks, and when we build motors it is after all our jobs to measure all these parts. WE measure main housing specs, we then check it with bearings, and check the bearings for taper, then we check the cranks for for size, and again taper. At this point we can mix and match bearing shells, with the crank and main specs known we can get the clearances we are looking for.

Lifter bores, we use a brand who is the smaller size, and they give us the desired clearances, we could buy a different brand and would have to hone them all to fit those lifters, again this is normal part of building engines. After market lifter companies make their lifters in various sizes, as an engine builder we know this as when rebuilding OEM blocks the lifter bores are shot, and need the lifters to be a little bigger to tighten up the tolerances.

It is a shame to see post like this, that just harms the uneducated consumers decision making process, as they now think there is something wrong. When there is not..

I know in speaking with Dart, that originally they line honed the SHP blocks, this was temporary until their custom tooling was made to allow them to machine the mains to size... You can actually see this process on their website. I think it is their dartheadstv.com site or something like that. We have not seen a problem, and highly recommend using these blocks. Dart makes a good part, the price on these things is awesome, and we can not get them fast enough in our shop.

AS for comparing a NASCAR engine machine shop that might say maybe make 150 blocks a year, built to be used with the same crank, lifters, cam tunnel, and cylinder bores over and over, to a shop that builds a few hundred blocks a week to be used with various cranks, pistons, lifters, cams, and rods is unjust.

If Dart was building just for one customer to use the same specs over and over, they too could do that.

If you are unsure of Dart and their capabilities head on up to their shop, I personally have taken the time to do this, and I also have had the pleasure to be in a CUP shop, totally different worlds. Dart has machinery that dwarfs what is used in the CUP shops, due to their production, they need machines that can machine tens of thousands of parts before needing a rebuild, not a few hundred or so...

Just my $.02

A HAPPY DART user!

I also have to say the first 8 blocks we got that were line honed both cam tunnels and main lines we just dusted them out the main line to the high side no probem and we have done the same on the Little-M blocks and Big-M blocks for years with no problems, only the last 3 blocks that we have seen a change in there machining of the SHP blocks.

And I have one of the earlier blocks in the shop to campare against and the last 3 blocks a new GM would not go through the bores on 2 of the blocks and the 3 rd block we stopped work on it when the main line did not clean up at the parting line on one side on number three main cap.

And when the customer seen this he refused the block which I don't blame him, And the call I got from John at Dart today the said they would address the problems that people have found with these blocks. And John did say he had to make a few other phone calls on this issue.

And with the phone calls and email I have gotten I an no the only one seeing this problems.

I am sorry I can't send blocks out the door that won't even clean up with a simple line line hone.

If your going by measuring the main bores that are right on the money its bore alignment where the problem is. Look at the pics,

We don't send nothing out the door that is just line bored and you not even checking the main for alignment as that sounds a little scary from what I have seen.

If I would have only found one block thats different but 3 blocks 82 numbers apart where I had to cut the main caps and line hone the blocks.

I have three more coming in tomorrow.

Do you have a line hone at your shop?? Just trying to compare apples to apples here.

I have been very happy over the years with there product and john did say they would address the problems and get back to me today but so far no call back maybe tomorrow.

[PRO 1]

And the call I got from John at Dart today the said they would address the problems that people have found with these blocks. And John did say he had to make a few other phone calls on this issue.


I have been very happy over the years with there product and john did say they would address the problems and get back to me today but so far no call back maybe tomorrow.


Actually it was not John, rather another tech person at Dart, he said he would have to make some calls/check into your problems. That is not saying he has heard anything regarding a problem, but rather he would look into who may be handling your complaint, that was posted online. I know there is a whole group of us who have been talking about this, including myself. We have contacted dozens of users, and we also have used about 18 or so of these for engines we too have built on our race shop.

The correct statement made is we would look at your post, and look at the information, we will then let you know what we think, or address the masses about what we do.

Thanks

Pro 1

[Trmnatr]

Actually it was not John, rather another tech person at Dart, he said he would have to make some calls/check into your problems. That is not saying he has heard anything regarding a problem, but rather he would look into who may be handling your complaint, that was posted online. I know there is a whole group of us who have been talking about this, including myself. We have contacted dozens of users, and we also have used about 18 or so of these for engines we too have built on our race shop.

The correct statement made is we would look at your post, and look at the information, we will then let you know what we think, or address the masses about what we do.

Thanks

Pro 1

Carl and I were going somewhat around in circles along with other posters,,, it sounded as if Carl was saying the housings didnt measure right and Carl and others went back and fourth and so did Carl and myself,,,,

I then said something is missing in this picture,,,,

I did a copy/paste with carls post and put it on notepad,,,,

I then could see EXACTLY what he is talking about, sometimes any responses or thoughts can throw your mind in a different direction, "cant see the tree through the forest" kind of deal

Now i agree that the align honing will show any alignment issues due to the fact it highlighting high/low spots where the caps are out of alignment

The Dart blocks are a great foundation,,,,

[CNC BLOCKS]

I got a call at 6:30 tonite from Dick Maskin and he first said he was disturbed about an email he had gotten from one of his customers about my post. I told Dick I am in no way bad mouthing your blocks and thats why I posted a pic of the results I found with the last 3 blocks I bought. But Dick was unaware of pics to proove my findings.

I then explained the proceedure I use in finish machining the SHP blocks and he fully understood where I was coming from as was extremly concerned with what I found and said that I sould not have to cut the caps and line hone them to fix the main lines.

Dick explained how the main lines are now reamed and I asked if they are coming from both ends and he said yes and my reply was this maybe where the problem is coming from and he said he would surely look into it.

He said most shops that don't line hone would never pic up on this and I agreed because if they were just measuring the bores there right on the money (all the same size front to rear) and tey would never know.

I told him the first 8 blocks were fine but these last 3 showed some problems and one the customer did not want it in that condition and he said send it back and I will replace any of your blocks you find with problems as we want to send out the best blocks we can machine.

I can honestly say he is a SUPER GUY to talk to and was very concerned with what I had found and gave me his cell phone number and said if you ever see something wrong give me a call and I will certainly take care of it. And we spoke for about 20 minutes and everything was fine.

About an hour or so later Dick called back again as (I think he had read my post with the picture) and said he had to talked the guy in charge of machining in the shop and from his finding today found a small issue with the number 4 housing bore, He then explained that if they have to back to plan A and go back to line honing them to correct the problem that he has a CNC line hone that only takes 5 minutes to line hone those blocks and if thats what it takes to make the block a better peice thats what they will do to correct the problem. He did say that at 7:00 in the morning the problem would be addressed and taken care of as he wants to build the best block out there.

I truely have to say for Dick Maskin to spend time on the phone going over their machining processes and do a little research on the problem and call back with answers I am very impressed with him and his answers.

He asked me to post this to let every one the problem will be fixed first thing in the morning.

I may have to send him some Maine Lobsters for the max effort in taking care of the problem.

Again my hats off the Dick Maskin (owner of Dart)

[CNC BLOCKS]

Actually it was not John, rather another tech person at Dart, he said he would have to make some calls/check into your problems. That is not saying he has heard anything regarding a problem, but rather he would look into who may be handling your complaint, that was posted online. I know there is a whole group of us who have been talking about this, including myself. We have contacted dozens of users, and we also have used about 18 or so of these for engines we too have built on our race shop.

The correct statement made is we would look at your post, and look at the information, we will then let you know what we think, or address the masses about what we do.

Thanks

Pro 1

I talked to 2 different people at Dart today!!!

[Trmnatr]

Great news Carl

Glad you guys got it worked out,, I have never had but one issue with a Dart product and it was taken care of in a day or two

[want-a-be]

There are many reasons Dick Maskins and Dart is where they are right now. This sounds like one of the main reasons for it.

Don

[Tokyo Torquer]

Great to hear that customer service is alive and well at Dart .. that Dick Maskin jumped right in and the SHP block will continue to be the great block we expected it would be.

mike

[CNC BLOCKS]

Dick Maskin called yestersay to say all the SHP blocks were now going to be line honed on the mains and the cam tunnels were fine the way they are.

Again my hats off to Dick Maskins as there has been a lot of calls and emails praising him for taking care of the issue that has come up with the SHP blocks.

[lun40119]

I talked to my machine shop guy today, so I asked him if the mainline was straight on my SHP block. He replied "Kind of, I will have to cut the caps and it will be perfect." It was a pretty vague answer, but that is the way that he is. I remember when he did my 010 block, the caps had to be cut. So if he says its ok. Thats more than enough for me. Thanks to Dart for making quality blocks affordable. Thanks to Carl for making us who are not capable of measuring these kinds of things aware.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I talked to my machine shop guy today, so I asked him if the mainline was straight on my SHP block. He replied "Kind of, I will have to cut the caps and it will be perfect." It was a pretty vague answer, but that is the way that he is. I remember when he did my 010 block, the caps had to be cut. So if he says its ok. Thats more than enough for me. Thanks to Dart for making quality blocks affordable. Thanks to Carl for making us who are not capable of measuring these kinds of things aware.

Jake

Its only a minor set back and I am glad the shop your dealing with has good enough equipment to find the problem as there are guys that go just by the bore demension and calling that good enough.

Once the later blocks get out the problem should be gone, Its still a dam good peice to work with thats for sure.

I thought someone posted that the problems posted with the SHP blocks was a bunch of BS HMMMMMMMMMMM

Good luck with your build.

Carl

[Trmnatr]

Jake

Its only a minor set back and I am glad the shop your dealing with has good enough equipment to find the problem as there are guys that go just by the bore demension and calling that good enough.

Once the later blocks get out the problem should be gone, Its still a dam good peice to work with thats for sure.

I thought someone posted that the problems posted with the SHP blocks was a bunch of BS HMMMMMMMMMMM

Good luck with your build.

Carl

No offense Carl but stirred $hit stinks,,,, I found out years ago

The debate was there, now its over

[Trmnatr]

No offense Carl but stirred $hit stinks,,,, I found out years ago

The debate was there, now its over


How far out to the left or right was cap #2, #3, #4, #5 from cap #1 ?

[lun40119]

How far out to the left or right was cap #2, #3, #4, #5 from cap #1 ?

Couldn't tell you........what I wrote from Keith is what it was. I am not trying to stir the pot Butch........just report what we found. I have no problem with the block, and if Keith (maching shop guy) says it will perfect, I believe it will be perfect. Like I said, he had to cut the caps on my 010 block, so I guess nothing has changed. I am, and always will be a Dart customer, regardless of the hype and bullshyt, that comes from the other manufacturers.

[Awesome Bill]

Maybe, I am a lucky rascal and get all the good blocks? HMMMMMMM, don't think so. You have to remember I have been doing this for over 30 years now with out missing a year and have a pretty good reputatin in this buisness for building engines that live and make killer power.

I have called 3 machine shops that I have good relations with and ask about this problem and they have seen nothing but the normal cleans ups we have all done just to please us and our allowances. Even if the parting line is out a little, we all have used them big in that area due to excessive honing to get it back in, its never been a problem.

We all have taken engines apart and found the parting line being out on the mains and rods and the bearings look perfect and would of never expected it. Partling lines being a little larger is what for some done for years to account for rpm longation issues. IF you want perfect, don't buy anything, but you do not need perfect in any engine. It has to be within specs!

Like Fred said, "Donovon" the worst thing anyone could of done is give an idiot who thinks he is an engine builder or a machinest a .0001 mic or get a CNC machine, He will cause you more problems than you can think of. Not mentioning or pointing to anyone, I like perfect as well as the next engine builder, but its not there or does it need to be! Don can measure 1 and it be different from mine or Dart, I can measure his and it be different. I do what I know has worked with perfect bearings after 2 seasons +. This is better to me and any block being out .0005 and that is considered well safe.

We will be waiting for your report that will most likely prove everything is fine!

[lun40119]

Maybe, I am a lucky rascal and get all the good blocks? HMMMMMMM, don't think so. You have to remember I have been doing this for over 30 years now with out missing a year and have a pretty good reputatin in this buisness for building engines that live and make killer power.

I have called 3 machine shops that I have good relations with and ask about this problem and they have seen nothing but the normal cleans ups we have all done just to please us and our allowances. Even if the parting line is out a little, we all have used them big in that area due to excessive honing to get it back in, its never been a problem.

We all have taken engines apart and found the parting line being out on the mains and rods and the bearings look perfect and would of never expected it. Partling lines being a little larger is what for some done for years to account for rpm longation issues. IF you want perfect, don't buy anything, but you do not need perfect in any engine. It has to be within specs!

Like Fred said, "Donovon" the worst thing anyone could of done is give an idiot who thinks he is an engine builder or a machinest a .0001 mic or get a CNC machine, He will cause you more problems than you can think of. Not mentioning or pointing to anyone, I like perfect as well as the next engine builder, but its not there or does it need to be! Don can measure 1 and it be different from mine or Dart, I can measure his and it be different. I do what I know has worked with perfect bearings after 2 seasons +. This is better to me and any block being out .0005 and that is considered well safe.

We will be waiting for your report that will most likely prove everything is fine!

Bill, like I said in the second post, Keith, my machine shop guy said it will be fine. I talked to him after that. All they had to do is cut the caps, and align hone it. I kind of expected all the oem blocks I have done had to have the caps cut. I realize we live in a imperfect world, and if I wanted a blue print block, I would have ordered it. I am just reporting what I have seen. I am still extremely excited to be using this block. It is a nice, sturdy foundation.

Eitherway, have a great weekend.

[Trmnatr]

Maybe, I am a lucky rascal and get all the good blocks? HMMMMMMM, don't think so. You have to remember I have been doing this for over 30 years now with out missing a year and have a pretty good reputatin in this buisness for building engines that live and make killer power.

I have called 3 machine shops that I have good relations with and ask about this problem and they have seen nothing but the normal cleans ups we have all done just to please us and our allowances. Even if the parting line is out a little, we all have used them big in that area due to excessive honing to get it back in, its never been a problem.

We all have taken engines apart and found the parting line being out on the mains and rods and the bearings look perfect and would of never expected it. Partling lines being a little larger is what for some done for years to account for rpm longation issues. IF you want perfect, don't buy anything, but you do not need perfect in any engine. It has to be within specs!

Like Fred said, "Donovon" the worst thing anyone could of done is give an idiot who thinks he is an engine builder or a machinest a .0001 mic or get a CNC machine, He will cause you more problems than you can think of. Not mentioning or pointing to anyone, I like perfect as well as the next engine builder, but its not there or does it need to be! Don can measure 1 and it be different from mine or Dart, I can measure his and it be different. I do what I know has worked with perfect bearings after 2 seasons +. This is better to me and any block being out .0005 and that is considered well safe.

We will be waiting for your report that will most likely prove everything is fine!


Why do you keep stirring $hit ? Stirred $hit stinks.

How can you say who is good and not without knowing them ? That would be like me calling you an idiot when i dont even know you,,,

Where are all these engines you build ? Who runs them ? To be honest i do a few street/strip and race small blocks and dont do big blocks, glad i dont do big blocks or id be in worse shape health wise.

You do all these big blocks youy say that kick a$$ but i have never seen one of your engines,,,, As a matter of fact all the kick a$$ engines around here are from Reggie "Reggie Power"

[Awesome Bill]

Another one that can't read I guess. Go get your 48th issure of the National Dragster, and then get your last Drag Illustrated one and check out who you think I am not. I also have a web site that started putting dyno pulls of our customers enginges on over 3 or 4 years ago with u-tube along with more engines to choose from than you even could dream of doing.

Further more, I was not talking to you, I was talking with Jake. The only one that is stirring the pot is the people like you that ring in with these assumptions that are absurb. The problem here is clearly that I am a little more known than you and you might be a little jealous? Keep your comments to your self and that way people don't know how smart or dumb you may or may not be. if you don't have anythng to add on a subject pr if you do add something, just state facts, not your 15 year old smart remarks.

[Trmnatr]

Another one that can't read I guess. Go get your 48th issure of the National Dragster, and then get your last Drag Illustrated one and check out who you think I am not. I also have a web site that started putting dyno pulls of our customers enginges on over 3 or 4 years ago with u-tube along with more engines to choose from than you even could dream of doing.

Further more, I was not talking to you, I was talking with Jake. The only one that is stirring the pot is the people like you that ring in with these assumptions that are absurb. The problem here is clearly that I am a little more known than you and you might be a little jealous? Keep your comments to your self and that way people don't know how smart or dumb you may or may not be. if you don't have anythng to add on a subject pr if you do add something, just state facts, not your 15 year old smart remarks.

Bill, im not jealous of you or anybody. Ask anybody that knows me, im happy every day and have many reasons not to be. I always help people. Im to the point where if someone really needs my help i help them - its not always a money thing, sometimes people feel good when they help other people

I have rebuilt an engine for cost with no labor because the good customer was in a $$ situation with medical issues,,,, i guess thats why people do for me (?????)

And when my mother had her ndinner to raise $$ for an expensive procedure that is rare they have only raised around $6,000 for 100% of people. With all the people i have done for and some of my suppliers they raised over $12,000.

Before you go talking about me step back, i wont put up with your crap

Pretty obvious you dont know me as i can see by your post,,, 15 year old smart remarks.

A little more known ? Famous carl saying, "hmmmm".

Your stirring $hit in your post to jake talking about Carl. It needs to stop, if i was a moderator this thread would have been gone and you guys would be told to stop

[Awesome Bill]

then why even reply to it? Your playing in a whole different ball park.

People come to this site for information from various people and all if they would just keep their speedtalk insulfts and who has got the latest 20 year old cnc machines that can write names in stuff would just keep to the facts, we all would be o.k. Try it you might like it. If you don't have something nice to say, don't reply.

[CNC BLOCKS]

then why even reply to it? Your playing in a whole different ball park.

People come to this site for information from various people and all if they would just keep their speedtalk insulfts and who has got the latest 20 year old cnc machines that can write names in stuff would just keep to the facts, we all would be o.k. Try it you might like it. If you don't have something nice to say, don't reply.


Bill

My CNC machine is only 9 years old not 20 years and if it was 20 years old I would have made a million or so with by now.:):)

One thing about it, Its better then amy Rottler machine out there!!!

And at least I can truely blue print blocks in my machine!!!:p

Once again its only 9 years old

[Dart Vader]

This argument appears to be coming back with all the impact of the fourth season of a bad reality TV show.

Have some dignity and let it die...

[want-a-be]

This argument appears to be coming back with all the impact of the fourth season of a bad reality TV show.

Have some dignity and let it die...

I second that,...not that it matters. :rolleyes:

Lets get back to helping and stop the bickering. That doesn't make anyone look good. It's bringing the integrity of the board down. :mad:

Don :cool:

[Awesome Bill]

Yeah, your right, any haas is better than a rottler.