372ci or 427ci sbc

[mytj2000]

I'm debating on which short block assy to use for my Figure 8 race car. It weighs 2800lbs, average about 7200rpm. Whats your thoughts on Darts 372shp short block. and anyone use World Products 427 sbc ? I have RHS 235cc pro action heads , Brodix intake and a proform 850 carb

[Awesome Bill]

Personally I would use neither, but I am bias on this matter. I would use an Awesome Engine 400CI. Here is why. The 372 SHP Short block does not have enough crank in it for the heads you have. The 3.480" crank and 4.125" bore with a 235cc RHS head will be a lot down up to 6000rpm. The 427 from world is just a bomb waiting to go off. They put the bore right @ 4.185", that means your block is as far as it should go and if a repair is needed your done. You can take it to 4.200 but then you have head gasket issues that never go away and have them anyway @ 4.185" much more frequent. If World uses the 4" crank with the 4.125" which I use, you run the risk of breaking the machined rod bolts that are compromised to clear the .850" or smaller tooth pick camshaft. Also, the small camshaft flops around like a wet noodle with any killer roller. The 3¾" crank with a 6.125" long rod is the only way to go in my opinion. With a SHP block, 4340 Crank, 6.125" rods with good bolts, Wiseco 2618 Nitrous or Heavy duty pistons, not 4032 high silicon stuff, ACL or Clevite H sereis bearings, internally balanced and assembled, $3995.00. The 400 or even 406 will do just as well as the 427-434 in this application. Call or email for more information. Disregard any bad hype on the SHP you have heard on this or other sites, its bogus. Just pulled another block out yesterday to do a 427" and the align bore was with .0002 front to back all above and under specs. Best one yet and it was align bored!

[mytj2000]

Thanks for the advice, I'm looking to make a reliable 650-700 hp . I ran a flat top short block last year and made good power. looking for a good stroker.

[Awesome Bill]

I have got them.

[mytj2000]

what kind of time frame would you need to build and ship a short block? What kind of parts would you use?

[CNC BLOCKS]

Disregard any bad hype on the SHP you have heard on this or other sites, its bogus. Just pulled another block out yesterday to do a 427" and the align bore was with .0002 front to back all above and under specs. Best one yet and it was align bored!

Bill

I know your talking about me here but go over my posts and what myself and Dick Maskins talked about is there and there was a problem that was corrected by Dart going back to line honing, There are some things that were talked about behind the sceens that I won't mention.

So calling myself and Dick liers is bull shyt and he also found a problem with the main lines as well and it was corrected.

I had 3 blocks come in today from Dart and and are just like the very first 8 blocks we got as the main lines are line honed not reamed.

You should know all the facts before posting shyt like this thats for sure.

Here is the quote I posted to show you don't know what your talking about!!!

I got a call at 6:30 tonite from Dick Maskin and he first said he was disturbed about an email he had gotten from one of his customers about my post. I told Dick I am in no way bad mouthing your blocks and thats why I posted a pic of the results I found with the last 3 blocks I bought. But Dick was unaware of pics to proove my findings.

I then explained the proceedure I use in finish machining the SHP blocks and he fully understood where I was coming from as was extremly concerned with what I found and said that I sould not have to cut the caps and line hone them to fix the main lines.

Dick explained how the main lines are now reamed and I asked if they are coming from both ends and he said yes and my reply was this maybe where the problem is coming from and he said he would surely look into it.

He said most shops that don't line hone would never pic up on this and I agreed because if they were just measuring the bores there right on the money (all the same size front to rear) and tey would never know.

I told him the first 8 blocks were fine but these last 3 showed some problems and one the customer did not want it in that condition and he said send it back and I will replace any of your blocks you find with problems as we want to send out the best blocks we can machine.

I can honestly say he is a SUPER GUY to talk to and was very concerned with what I had found and gave me his cell phone number and said if you ever see something wrong give me a call and I will certainly take care of it. And we spoke for about 20 minutes and everything was fine.

About an hour or so later Dick called back again as (I think he had read my post with the picture) and said he had to talked the guy in charge of machining in the shop and from his finding today found a small issue with the number 4 housing bore, He then explained that if they have to back to plan A and go back to line honing them to correct the problem that he has a CNC line hone that only takes 5 minutes to line hone those blocks and if thats what it takes to make the block a better peice thats what they will do to correct the problem. He did say that at 7:00 in the morning the problem would be addressed and taken care of as he wants to build the best block out there.

I truely have to say for Dick Maskin to spend time on the phone going over their machining processes and do a little research on the problem and call back with answers I am very impressed with him and his answers.

He asked me to post this to let every one the problem will be fixed first thing in the morning.

I may have to send him some Maine Lobsters for the max effort in taking care of the problem.

Again my hats off the Dick Maskin (owner of Dart)

[Awesome Bill]

Dart SHP block, 4340 3½ to 4" cranks, 377-427CI 6.0" or long 4340 H-Beam Rods, Wiseco 2618 Pistons, internally balanced and any compression ratio. 2 week time frame @ best and 1 month worst. We are getting pretty busy again.

[Awesome Bill]

We just done another 434CI SHP block and I personally dial bore gauged the block from front to back @ the X and Parting lines just like I do every time. From front to back, up and down the worst reading I got was .0004 out and that was above and below high and low specs.

Even if I did find something wrong with a DART block or for that matter anyones block, I would never post something like what you have posted all over the world with your speed talk crew and whatever forum you like to chat on.

Seems funny your the only one who speaks of align boring being off and then trying to cut the caps and clean a hole up and then finds the parting line out. Most machinest (real ones) measure twice and cuts only once and then proceed with any new block. Doing all the machine work and then crying foul sounds very fishy to me. Seems like your the one who has problems with all these blocks. Kinda like the 1 sons mom watching her son march with an army of men and she notices the whole army is marching out of step but her son and then screams it out loud, I think I am pretty much right on?????HMMMMMMMMMMM

Watch your mouth on the sight also, sounds real professional! Even if it was all the way on the low side and all the way on the high side from front to back, you would still be in specs. Throw that .0001 gauge away and go to work. You check everything first, call and say what you got and then proceed. We do it every day.

[CNC BLOCKS]

We just done another 434CI SHP block and I personally dial bore gauged the block from front to back @ the X and Parting lines just like I do every time. From front to back, up and down the worst reading I got was .0004 out and that was above and below high and low specs.

Even if I did find something wrong with a DART block or for that matter anyones block, I would never post something like what you have posted all over the world with your speed talk crew and whatever forum you like to chat on.

Seems funny your the only one who speaks of align boring being off and then trying to cut the caps and clean a hole up and then finds the parting line out. Most machinest (real ones) measure twice and cuts only once and then proceed with any new block. Doing all the machine work and then crying foul sounds very fishy to me. Seems like your the one who has problems with all these blocks. Kinda like the 1 sons mom watching her son march with an army of men and she notices the whole army is marching out of step but her son and then screams it out loud, I think I am pretty much right on?????HMMMMMMMMMMM

Watch your mouth on the sight also, sounds real professional! Even if it was all the way on the low side and all the way on the high side from front to back, you would still be in specs. Throw that .0001 gauge away and go to work. You check everything first, call and say what you got and then proceed. We do it every day.


Now I see why they call you NOT SO AWESOME BILL LOL alot of people speek about YOU this way HMMM and Don Merrill did kick you off the speed talk site.

Those caps in the pic I posted came off the block when I line hone it and when I had to cut the caps I stacked them up and from there took a pic before I reline honed the block and I did cut number 1 and 5 after the pic. The block in the pic did not clean up at the parting line number 3 as explained as the bores in the block are misaligned as I can't make it smaller at the parting lines.

If your just line boring blocks and your machine does not use a bar that goes through every bore in one shot, I beleive your machine does 5 different set ups, one for each main bearing bore and if your not finishing your blocks with a line hone I would not be buying blocks from you.

Its funny Dart found the same problems I found and changed their proceedure HMMM

The only reason I believe you never seen this is because you have not had any SHP blocks in your shop only BS about having them, Thats my theory LOL

And the blocks we received that were line bored we automaticly cut the caps and line hone them.

I would say the reason my shop and Darts shop found a small problem with the main lines is our equipment must be a little better then yours to pick up on this issue and your equipment could find it, But I don't believe you have bought any SHP blocks yet.

I see you try to be the Shell answer man here HMMM, But its funny when I posted about the blocks being line bored and you said you coundn't blelieve I was questioning Dart about it and I did in fact find a problem and you never posted during the descusions about the SHP, MAYBE YOU GOT A LITTLE EGG ON YOUR FACE ON THAT ONE LOL.

Take care NOT SO AWESOME BILL

PS my name is Carl not Frank

[Dart Vader]

Now I see why they call you NOT SO AWESOME BILL LOL alot of people speek about YOU this way HMMM and Don Merrill did kick you off the speed talk site.

Those caps in the pic I posted came off the block when I line hone it and when I had to cut the caps I stacked them up and from there took a pic before I reline honed the block and I did cut number 1 and 5 after the pic. The block in the pic did not clean up at the parting line number 3 as explained as the bores in the block are misaligned as I can't make it smaller at the parting lines.

If your just line boring blocks and your machine does not use a bar that goes through every bore in one shot, I beleive your machine does 5 different set ups, one for each main bearing bore and if your not finishing your blocks with a line hone I would not be buying blocks from you.

Its funny Dart found the same problems I found and changed their proceedure HMMM
The only reason I believe you never seen this is because you have not had any SHP blocks in your shop only BS about having them, Thats my theory LOL
And the blocks we received that were line bored we automaticly cut the caps and line hone them.

I would say the reason my shop and Darts shop found a small problem with the main lines is our equipment must be a little better then yours to pick up on this issue and your equipment could find it, But I don't believe you have bought any SHP blocks yet.

I see you try to be the Shell answer man here HMMM, But its funny when I posted about the blocks being line bored and you said you coundn't blelieve I was questioning Dart about it and I did in fact find a problem and you never posted during the descusions about the SHP, MAYBE YOU GOT A LITTLE EGG ON YOUR FACE ON THAT ONE LOL.
Take care NOT SO AWESOME BILL

PS my name is Carl not Frank
Mantain a civil tone when having discussions on the forums please. There is no reason to openly insult people and swear at them.
That sort of behavior is childish.

Tone it down and try to discuss things like an adult.

[Awesome Bill]

Listen Frank, you can say what you want and talk about your Speed Talk crew and bring up old stuff that was never true and now insult Dart by saying for some reason your 20 year HAAS that at best is .002 from 1 end to the other of the table and most likely with that dinosaur you have its .005 from end to end is better than anything they actually have. Thats like saying GM FORD etc, has problems and I can find them.

I can assure you that my DART standings and what blocks and heads I use are pretty solid. I carry on the shelf more inventory than what your shop is most likely worth, not to mention what we do.

Seems funny I have never seen a 2 page spread in the National Dragster Advertising your engines. Let me see, I have seen Scotts Stuff, RM, Steve, but no CNC, must be the $7000.00 price tag for 1 issue is more than you spend on your whole operation. So when you do get to my level of engine building and actually go to races and compete with something other than your cheap talk, you look me up. I will be the one with a rig that I know is worth more than all your equipment put together and will be the one that is over 80 ft long and a big name on the side. Most likely we will roll at the least 2 cars out of 3 capable ever time we go. Even you will be able to read the name on the side.

So do yourself a favor and don't try to put yourself in the same league as me until you can carry the ball. You most likely are a pretty good machinest and do some machine work but I bet you don't even own a dyno? You talk about your CNC machine like its the only thing you need. Well its not. Our shop is complete, fairly new and were doing just fine. We don't have a crank grinder because I could not make any money with it and thats it. Everything else we do in house. So your nit picking just shows that jealousy does go a long way.

And if I wanted to blueprint a block again after DARTS equipment is second to none in the industry and find .0001 and hollar somethings wrong, I must not have any work to really do and I will quit. But, you keep right on spewing at the mouth and everyone sees who you really are.

Keep your post to mine factual and clean and we can play. You can't beat me @ what I do and words mean nothing, prove it. If you ever want to match race your CNC machine I am not interested, I'll rely on DARTs stuff. But if you want to match race your car or even your engines in someone elses car because you don't have one, you let me know and we can make it happen. I have 4 different rides and all are faster and the first, so if you choose a weapon, choose it well.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Listen Frank, you can say what you want and talk about your Speed Talk crew and bring up old stuff that was never true and now insult Dart by saying for some reason your 20 year HAAS that at best is .002 from 1 end to the other of the table and most likely with that dinosaur you have its .005 from end to end is better than anything they actually have. Thats like saying GM FORD etc, has problems and I can find them.
.

Not so AWESOME BILL

I never insulted Dart in any way so I really don't why your making this stuff up?? AND IF YOU READ WHAT I HAVE SAID THE SHP BLOCKS WE HAVE RUN THOUGH OUR CNC MACHINE HAVE BEEN DEAD NUTS FORM END TO END AND FROM INTAKE TO EXHAUST THEY HAVE BEEN WITH IN .002, You really are a good fabricater for making things up.

One other thing I really don't think HAAS made CNC machines in 1989 and my HAAS machine was bought in 2001 from RMC and being 8 years old and its not used 24/7 which its made to do, I really don't think its worn out. By the way I also have a HAAS VF-3 that I do work on. My machines are gone through once a year buy techs and my machines are right on the money, My machine is made to take a 3500 pound peice and machining an engines block I don't think its bothing it in any way. Right now at both my shops everything is paid for that must be cause I have nothing to do LOL

And as far as OEM blocks thats another whole story.


I can assure you that my DART standings and what blocks and heads I use are pretty solid. I carry on the shelf more inventory than what your shop is most likely worth, not to mention what we do.
.

We build alot of engines as well but our main business now is blue printing blocks and we use Dart, Ford, and Chevy no World blocks at out shop!! And we do ALOT of cam tunnel blue printing as well.

I can say we do probably more blocks as we machine Dart, Bowtie and Ford racing blocks and we are allowed on all the websites. And guys like you ruined the Racing junk forum and your not allowed on the speedtalk forum as that says alot about you, check this link out http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3798&highlight=400

Being on about 25 plus websites I do attrack alot of block work and sell a lot of parts and I don't try to be a KNOW-ALL- IGEST or the SHELL ANSWER MAN like some one I know.



Seems funny I have never seen a 2 page spread in the National Dragster Advertising your engines. Let me see, I have seen Scotts Stuff, RM, Steve, but no CNC, must be the $7000.00 price tag for 1 issue is more than you spend on your whole operation. So when you do get to my level of engine building and actually go to races and compete with something other than your cheap talk, you look me up. I will be the one with a rig that I know is worth more than all your equipment put together and will be the one that is over 80 ft long and a big name on the side. Most likely we will roll at the least 2 cars out of 3 capable ever time we go. Even you will be able to read the name on the side.
.

I really don't need to advertise in those mags as we have more then enough work as we can't get cought up now and I did 2 years at the PRI show in http://kingscrankshaft.com/ booth which brought me alot exposure and if your good the work will come. We do alot with alot of other shops across the U.S. and Canada, I not hurtin for work that for sure.



So do yourself a favor and don't try to put yourself in the same league as me until you can carry the ball. You most likely are a pretty good machinest and do some machine work but I bet you don't even own a dyno? You talk about your CNC machine like its the only thing you need. Well its not. Our shop is complete, fairly new and were doing just fine. We don't have a crank grinder because I could not make any money with it and thats it. Everything else we do in house. So your nit picking just shows that jealousy does go a long way.
.


BILL BILL BILL

I have been doing CNC machine work alot longer then you and using a HAAS CNC machine over a Rottler I am light years ahead of you and other then the Cup teams I was one of the first guys to buy a CNC machine. Beleive me I have everything to work with except a crank grinder, 2 CNC machines, 2 Sunnen line hone tables, line boring equipment for cam tunnels and main lines, rod and head equipment as well.

Didn't have to buy a dyno as I have one I can use 24/7 so why buy one and its right close.

I can't fit everything in one shop so I have 2 shops 20 minutes apart.



And if I wanted to blueprint a block again after DARTS equipment is second to none in the industry and find .0001 and hollar somethings wrong, I must not have any work to really do and I will quit. But, you keep right on spewing at the mouth and everyone sees who you really are.


See Bill its funny as Dart found the same problem I found with there main line on the SHP and I have never hollared about something being off in tenths and If I bashed Dart in any way I really don't think I would have Dick Maskins personal phone number and I have to say Dick Maskins took care of me very well on this matter and he is a stand up guy. I would say to find the problem and you didn't I would have to say I have better stuff to wrk with.



Keep your post to mine factual and clean and we can play. You can't beat me @ what I do and words mean nothing, prove it. If you ever want to match race your CNC machine I am not interested, I'll rely on DARTs stuff. But if you want to match race your car or even your engines in someone elses car because you don't have one, you let me know and we can make it happen. I have 4 different rides and all are faster and the first, so if you choose a weapon, choose it well.


Bill if your using a Rottler its not a true CNC machine don't even go there as I looked at them before I bought a real CNC machine, And so far the engines we build seem to run fine and I have had many championships with my stuff over the years and the work we produce seems to be fine as well.

After 36 years of building engines I seem to have a pretty good name out there for what we do, When you get a real CNC machine then we can race LOL

Have a good day Bill Cannon

[Awesome Bill]

bla bla bla bla, nothing but back tracking and the normal cover up. If you use a dial bore gauge, Sunnen I would hope, you would of found the block out before you did a complete build on it and then cry wolf only after you cut the block and made the hole to big. Or you would of pickedup the parting line problem first. Who are you trying to kid here Frank. When we do a block, we measure it first. If we find a problem, which we very seldom do, we call DART then, not post a HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM about them choosing to align bore not hone. They do not need your permission to machine blocks, thats why we purchase their blocks. They know what is good or bad. Sounds like you don't know how to align hone if you got the parting line that far out, and these is ofcourse after you done the full machine work on a supposedly defective SHP block. Why did you post that in that particular manner before contacting DART about it as well on their site and your other sites you manage to keep stuff stirred up with. Remember the mom watching her son march to the beat of his own tune and tell every one her son was the only one in tune. I have never heard anyone bash DART on this site like you done with you little block story. Shame on you and your business.

By the way, I have had Richards Personel cell # for over 4 years and only had to use it 3 times and that was on oiling issues. If I find a main bore tight or loose, I know how to fix it without blowing the hole open and getting the parting lines out so you can't fix it. I don't need Richard to help me with things I know how to repair with out crying about them on a nationally known and well respected forum. Once again, tell your story to someone who don't know. And you did not invent the CNC so don't think you the only one who can create a tool path without banging stuff up. Do me a favor and don't respond to anything else I write and keep you post professional. If I were you I would not challange me @ anything, especially who owns, knows, does, has and races what, you will loose.

[CNC BLOCKS]

bla bla bla bla, nothing but back tracking and the normal cover up. If you use a dial bore gauge, Sunnen I would hope, you would of found the block out before you did a complete build on it and then cry wolf only after you cut the block and made the hole to big. Or you would of pickedup the parting line problem first. Who are you trying to kid here Frank. When we do a block, we measure it first. If we find a problem, which we very seldom do, we call DART then, not post a HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM about them choosing to align bore not hone. They do not need your permission to machine blocks, thats why we purchase their blocks. They know what is good or bad. Sounds like you don't know how to align hone if you got the parting line that far out, and these is ofcourse after you done the full machine work on a supposedly defective SHP block. Why did you post that in that particular manner before contacting DART about it as well on their site and your other sites you manage to keep stuff stirred up with. Remember the mom watching her son march to the beat of his own tune and tell every one her son was the only one in tune. I have never heard anyone bash DART on this site like you done with you little block story. Shame on you and your business.

By the way, I have had Richards Personel cell # for over 4 years and only had to use it 3 times and that was on oiling issues. If I find a main bore tight or loose, I know how to fix it without blowing the hole open and getting the parting lines out so you can't fix it. I don't need Richard to help me with things I know how to repair with out crying about them on a nationally known and well respected forum. Once again, tell your story to someone who don't know. And you did not invent the CNC so don't think you the only one who can create a tool path without banging stuff up. Do me a favor and don't respond to anything else I write and keep you post professional. If I were you I would not challange me @ anything, especially who owns, knows, does, has and races what, you will loose.

On the 3 blocks I bought from Dart that were line bored The bores are perfectly round as they were reamed and I measured them when they came, The problem is the bores are misaligned and you not going to pick that up with a bore gauge maybe your can LOL

And all 3 blocks I have to cut the caps and line hone them not a big deal, But the cutomer refused the on that did not clean up at the parting line.

The block numbers were 82 numbers apart and it was not just one block with a problem.

Actually a machined finish is a tighter quality finish that can be measured and controlled better than honing. We are on our #9 block and I have not found 1 block under spec! This is a good thing, because I have had to redo countless Little M's and Big M's and Iron Eagles. They are always .001-.0003 tight, never big. With the cranks being on the large side from with the import line, we always aline hone this little difference out and have to use the X series to get our required race proven clearance we use. Personally, the machined finish is a ton better and all blocks should be done this way. With the CNC machine, we can keep this within .0002 with cutting speeds and feeds. Surface finish is crystal!

Like I have always said line honing sure brings out the IMPERFECTIONS OF LINE BORING, So iguess your theory on line boing is wrong, I have seen alot of blocks come in my shop over the years from some top engine builders and all of them have been finshed with a line hone, Thats why I have a line hone set up at each shop!!!

Bill have not read my posts as I did call Dart and the last call I made they were to call back in 2 hours and that never happened

If you not line honing you should be. Personally, the machined finish is a ton better and all blocks should be done this way are you saying myself and Dart that line hone are blocks and just about every one else that does high performance work is doing it wrong???

With the calls and emails I have received I am not the only one that has seen this problem.

Again reread ALL MY POSTS as I have not bashed Dart in any way and Dick understood that after reading my post and seeing my pics I posted.

All I can say Dick Maskins took care of me on this and I can't say enough good about him and if I have any more issues I have his cell number.

Its funny you don't read my posts as Dart found the same problem I did and I can tell your just going by bore gauging the housing bores and if they are round thats good enough. I would have say you not much of a machinist if your not line honing your blocks to make sure there are no problems.

But we finish with a line hone to make sure there are no problems like what we found.

Bill if I would have only found this on one block I would have never posted any info. but 3 blocks with the same problem one worse then the others and where you don't beleive in line honing you would never pick up on this CORRECT.

If I were you I would not challange me @ anything, especially who owns, knows, does, has and races what, you will loose BRING IT ON BILL

The emails and phone calls I get about you are pretty interesting and I guess this is the only site you are now allowed on HMMMM As I know your not welcomed at at some of them.

Have you done your math to figure out how old my CNC machines are?? Alot of people got a good laugh out of that one:D:D

People have seen I am very anal about my work and what I send out the door compared to what you have posted about your work. Thats for sure.

Have a good day Mr. Bill Cannon

[mytj2000]

So there's alot on the table ! I want to find a great engine builder. Who should i trust to do good work?

[Dart Vader]

So there's alot on the table ! I want to find a great engine builder. Who should i trust to do good work?
If I were you, I would consult a neutral party.

The "discussion" here should be taking place in a boxing ring.

[want-a-be]

If I were you, I would consult a neutral party.

The "discussion" here should be taking place in a boxing ring.


LOL Vader,...you can be the Ref.

mytj2000,... if you need someone to build you an engine I would be glad to. Shoot me a PM if so. There are ovbiously others on here that are aslo very good at what they do. If your're wanting to order an engine thats ready right now, Bill does have a good selection of ready to go engines in stock. ( Not choosing a side here. )

Biggest speed secret IMO is paying attention to the details. The Trick is knowing them all...lol.

Don

[mytj2000]

ya there should be a better place for the fighting. I'm trying to get questions awnsered

[want-a-be]

We sometimes get a lil' off topic around here...lol

Still needing an engine?

Don

[Awesome Bill]

It would be a first round knock out in about 30 seconds best and that would be playing. Gloves are my second interest and another area he does not want a heads up match. He can't beat me! Well maybe if I tied my hands behind my back and he got real lucky.

Let him do and hollar about how bad DART is and I will just keep sending DYNO TESTED ENGINES out the door with our machine work. We do verify all machine work with running engines. That is a large difference between most really good engine builders. Even run in stands are better than nothing, and I bet you don't have one of them, if you are looking for leaks. The problem with most machine work is the customer can not verify even if it was done right or wrong.

We have a crank saddle bar that we check every block with @ the X and vertical position. We better feel drag with a .001" gauge on every journal and that is the assemblers job to pick anything up before assembly. ANAL you are for sure, as most good machinest are.

My problem with you is blasting DART all over your other sites and causing concerns with a product I use and promote every day. I use nothing but DART BLOCKS for every brand new engine. I don't put steel splayed caps on 20 year old junk blocks and call them something they are not. That is an improvement over stock I will agree, but even at best, you still have a over priced block that is still only good for sure under 700hp because of cylinder wall conditions. Yes I have run them way over that and some have lived and some have split the cylinder wall. Its a gamble and a waste of about $4000.00 when that happens. In my opinion the GM Blocks, Ford blocks etc have stacking problems you don't even seem to address. BUT, when you get a really killer block like the SHP piece, you want to blast them all over the internet. That is my problem.

If you had any respect for DART you would of consulted and they would of advised you privately on what to do. Been there done that a few times. And for the final time, the only person who seems to be bringing up any other sites is you. I was invited back to speed talk and opted not to do so. To much bull____ over there with you and a few other goonies. Just imagine how I would be blasting you on that site. I have nothing to prove by supplying information on any other site than right here.

I am very busy so you go ahead and be the man over at all those other sites, I'm GOOD. In the last 4 days, I have sold 7 engines, 4 complete short blocks, 1 custom rotator, 3 sets of complete CNC ported heads 3 SBC 1 BBC, 1 Set of Complete CNC ported heads, ported intake and T&D package. My block orders from DART prove that so I think I am pretty good. I have never had my buddy BUD call me or Richard and say anything but keep up the good work. Most likely, I will double that next week. Those sales can be verified threw DART and Brodix, and BMF. All of which I have never said anything bad about on any pubic forum and if I ever did, I apologize

If you need an engine let me know. It will be dyno tested before you get it and will perform at the track as the dyno power reflects. For 2 years we warrantied all cranks and rods against breakage either Chinese forgings or American, and had the only 1st weekend out full warrantied engines on anything broken would be covered in the Nation. You do that Nationally then your pretty confident in your work. Never had 1 problem. Huge difference between our company and others. If you can find a better engine builder than that, let me know and I will tip my hat.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Let him do and hollar about how bad DART is and I will just keep sending DYNO TESTED ENGINES out the door with our machine work. We do verify all machine work with running engines. That is a large difference between most really good engine builders. Even run in stands are better than nothing, and I bet you don't have one of them, if you are looking for leaks. The problem with most machine work is the customer can not verify even if it was done right or wrong.

Bill

We dyno alot of our engines we build, but we also sell short blocks and hard engine parts and it hard to dyno a short block

Again reread my posts I never bashed Dart only questioned the problems I was finding with the main line on the SHP blocks and this is the same problem Dart found, And you not having good equipment to check blocks like myself and Dart you would never see what I see.

My problem with you is blasting DART all over your other sites and causing concerns with a product I use and promote every day. I use nothing but DART BLOCKS for every brand new engine. I don't put steel splayed caps on 20 year old junk blocks and call them something they are not. That is an improvement over stock I will agree, but even at best, you still have a over priced block that is still only good for sure under 700hp because of cylinder wall conditions. Yes I have run them way over that and some have lived and some have split the cylinder wall. Its a gamble and a waste of about $4000.00 when that happens. In my opinion the GM Blocks, Ford blocks etc have stacking problems you don't even seem to address. BUT, when you get a really killer block like the SHP piece, you want to blast them all over the internet. That is my problem.


See not all people use Dart blocks as we machine just as many Bowtie blocks as Darts blocks and we do machine alot of 010 blocks that pass certain tests as there are rules at some tracks that don't allow after market blocks or rules that require a GM P/N block. And we have good equipment for putting on splayed caps.

For some one like you saying a stock block is good for 1000 horse power is really a big joke to alot of people and engine builders out there and I am sure the guys at Dart really laugh about it. OH by the way here is the link. http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3798&highlight=400


Again Bill reread my posts as Dart found the same problem I did with the SHP blocks and again if you had good equipment you would see the same results as Dart found and myself found with the main lines. Plus I am not the only engine builder that has seen this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you had any respect for DART you would of consulted and they would of advised you privately on what to do. Been there done that a few times. And for the final time, the only person who seems to be bringing up any other sites is you. I was invited back to speed talk and opted not to do so. To much bull____ over there with you and a few other goonies. Just imagine how I would be blasting you on that site. I have nothing to prove by supplying information on any other site than right here.

Again reread all my posts as I made my calls and no one called back and your not allowed on Speedtalk goonies over there HMMMM You may want to look in the mirror on that one :):)

I am very busy so you go ahead and be the man over at all those other sites, I'm GOOD. In the last 4 days, I have sold 7 engines, 4 complete short blocks, 1 custom rotator, 3 sets of complete CNC ported heads 3 SBC 1 BBC, 1 Set of Complete CNC ported heads, ported intake and T&D package. My block orders from DART prove that so I think I am pretty good. I have never had my buddy BUD call me or Richard and say anything but keep up the good work. Most likely, I will double that next week. Those sales can be verified threw DART and Brodix, and BMF. All of which I have never said anything bad about on any pubic forum and if I ever did, I apologize

[QUOTE]I am very busy so you go ahead and be the man over at all those other sites, I'm GOOD. In the last 4 days, I have sold 7 engines, 4 complete short blocks, 1 custom rotator, 3 sets of complete CNC ported heads 3 SBC 1 BBC, 1 Set of Complete CNC ported heads, ported intake and T&D package. My block orders from DART prove that so I think I am pretty good. I have never had my buddy BUD call me or Richard and say anything but keep up the good work. Most likely, I will double that next week. Those sales can be verified threw DART and Brodix, and BMF. All of which I have never said anything bad about on any pubic forum and if I ever did, I apologize

If you need an engine let me know. It will be dyno tested before you get it and will perform at the track as the dyno power reflects. For 2 years we warrantied all cranks and rods against breakage either Chinese forgings or American, and had the only 1st weekend out full warrantied engines on anything broken would be covered in the Nation. You do that Nationally then your pretty confident in your work. Never had 1 problem. Huge difference between our company and others. If you can find a better engine builder than that, let me know and I will tip my hat.


We have no problems with our engines or the blocks we sell as we make more money on block work then spending countless hours building engines. Thats why all my equipment is pais for :D We have never had to buy engines from any one in the last 36 years!!

And machining Bowtie and OEM blocks it keeps us busy we do a lot of cam tunnel blue printing for other shops a long with machine work and we have 2 balancers so we keep busy do what we do best.

The 3 SHP blocks that cam in this week were right on the money and the problems Dart found and our shop found seemed to be all fixed as PROMISED by Dick Maskins.

BY the emails and calls I have gotten about you Bill you really do keep a few of us laughing and the comment about the 20 year old CNC machine really showed how smart you are too a lot of people.:rolleyes:

Just keep impressing us with your knowledge. My self and other can tell you have not read one of my posts or even under stand what I wrote in my posts.

The word is you seem to be intimidated by my shop and my posts is this true?? People can see right through you

Good day Mr. Bill Cannon

[Awesome Bill]

you forgot you posted all that bull crap so everyone could see it before contacting Dart. Now ofcourse your back tracking. Normal!!!!!!

[CNC BLOCKS]

you forgot you posted all that bull crap so everyone could see it before contacting Dart. Now ofcourse your back tracking. Normal!!!!!!


Again Bill you did not read my complete post as I did contact and the last time I contacted them they was SUPPOSE to call me back with in 2 hours, And it didn't happen. HMMMMMMMM

Maybe thats why I have Dicks cell phone number.

Customer sevice was great once the right people read my post as the engineers were already on it before Dick called.

And if this was an isolated case one block I would have never posted!!!

Bill I Hope you don't jump all over the guy that posted he got the wrong head bolts from Dart.

[Dart Vader]

Ok, this discussion is going nowhere fast.
It's obvious that neither of you is convincing the other (Or anyone else most probably) of anything, maybe it's time to just let it go.

Why don't we return to actually trying to help the gentleman who posted here initially asking for advice?

[lun40119]

To the OP, I would personally go for a 4.125x3.750 assembly. Minimal clearancing, and you really aren't giving up much. Look around, you can find some good deals on Callies Compstar assemblies. Then order a SHP block, and take it to a local machine shop. I think you will find, you will be better off. JMO.

[want-a-be]

Ok, this discussion is going nowhere fast.
It's obvious that neither of you is convincing the other (Or anyone else most probably) of anything, maybe it's time to just let it go.

Why don't we return to actually trying to help the gentleman who posted here initially asking for advice?

Not taking sides at all,... But thanks Vader.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

Already gave mine, first page second and fourth post I think. Not taking sides or anything Vader but you chime in any time with any suggestions.

[Awesome Bill]

hey Jake, you told him exactly what I told him, thats 2 on 1 suggestion, do we get a third Donald?

[want-a-be]

hey Jake, you told him exactly what I told him, thats 2 on 1 suggestion, do we get a third Donald?


I'm with you both there Bill and Jake,...I like the 4.125 X 3.750 myself. The heads he is using will support that inch engine better anyways. imo that is.

Bill is right about not going to the max bore on the first build. You can buy pistons in .005 increments. If you don't have any major problems then you can hone your way out to the max bore and get alot more life out of that new block. imo,... you appreciate that more then the 5-10 hp the .030 over bore will net you.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

agree 100%. Application and longevity go a long way. Out of every SBC we build, the larger bore 406 3¾ stroke SBC produces the best all around results believe it or not.