Dart Techs!!!! [Archive] - The Dart Board

lun40119

02-22-2009, 06:43 AM

Going well, I got the T&D rockers yesterday but the stand is way too short. I have +.200 valves. I talked to one of the techs he is sending out a +.200 stand and he figures I will have to shim .035 yet. Those guys at T&D are really great to work with. Tomorrow I am going to paint it. Everything else is pretty much ready. Have to order the carb yet, but I am going to do that Monday or Tues. Other than that should be on the dyno in a couple weeks.

Hey Ive got a stumper for you and Bill. When checking VP both of you say it is a no no to be playing with the Play Dooooooooooooooh. When using the Dial, How do you check the Valve radially to make sure there is adequate clearance to the valve reliefs in the piston. Sounds like the old timers need to get the playdo out :D

Just about done with my buddies 502 too. Going to put some paint on it tomorrow, and waiting on the pushrods.

lun40119

02-22-2009, 06:18 PM

Here is the pic......

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P2171249jpgxsmaller.jpg

lun40119

02-24-2009, 03:51 AM

I suppose we could just turn this into a progress thread.........intake should be here tomorrow, and I will post the pics of the plenum for you Don. New Rocker stands should also be here tomorrow. Ill keep you posted.

lun40119

02-24-2009, 03:54 AM

Here is the latest pic.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/0222091954b_392379.jpg

Awesome Bill

02-24-2009, 10:44 AM

Proper Pistons and doing it for 30 years helps! Unless your doing something your not supposed to be doing or using very old pistons, TRW slugs, your not going to have a problem. But if your centerlines have been moved from angle milling, excessive cutting, guides changed out and moved centerlines, then we have to fly cut if we know the center line has been changed. We also just drop a special marker down the guide and mark the tops of the piston on intake and exhaust then we measure, if its close, within .020 we just flycut a little and your done. . WE NEVER USE PLAYDOOOOOOOOH!

lun40119

02-24-2009, 12:42 PM

I had lots of room Bill, I was just wondering. I used Mahle pro series pistons.

lun40119

02-25-2009, 05:13 AM

Got the +.200 stands tonight, and finished setting up my T&D rockers. I will have some pics posted soon. The shaft stuff is the only way to go.......easy as pie. I wish I would have bought those years ago. BILL......stop eating all the playdo. Ill keep you posted.

Dart Vader

02-25-2009, 12:35 PM

I'm working on getting a picture of the plenum for you.

Our current shots of the piece aren't very useful in that respect.

lun40119

02-25-2009, 01:11 PM

Thats ok, I bought it anyway......looks good. Some grinding to be done though on the runner extensions, and then I will leave it alone for this year. Probably have the head porter finish it next year. I took some pics last night, but I have to get them on the pc yet. Thanks though.

Dart Vader

02-25-2009, 02:52 PM

Ahh, sorry I took so long.

I've been working on our contingency website planning...

lun40119

02-25-2009, 02:55 PM

Its ok fella. I talked to the guy that did the head porting, and he said to get the Dart. Then I asked the guy who is building the carb at Prosystems, and he said with the Dart heads, get the Dart. So I bought the Dart :D.

want-a-be

02-25-2009, 03:21 PM

I'm still looking foward to seeing your pics though Jake.

Don

lun40119

02-25-2009, 05:09 PM

I used my buddies camera, it takes much better pics, I will get them out to you as soon as I get them......before and after pics, I have to round off the runner extensions. They are kinda rough.

lun40119

02-26-2009, 09:24 PM

Here are some more pics of the build. Got the rockers set up to order pushrods. 8.100 again seems to fit well. Any thoughts?????????????

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P2241378jpgsmall.jpg
Here is the contact on the valve tip. Its right about .038-.040.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P2241379jpgsmall.jpg
Here is another little hitch. Got it all taken care of though.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P2241366jpgsmall.jpg

lun40119

02-26-2009, 09:25 PM

Here is the rocker position at full lift. Everything look ok???????
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P2241373jpgsmall.jpg

want-a-be

02-26-2009, 09:42 PM

Looks good to me. Did you have the pics of the plenum on the intake?

Don

lun40119

02-26-2009, 10:02 PM

No, he is at work right now. I will take one with my camera and post it in a couple minutes........

lun40119

02-26-2009, 10:22 PM

Here you go Don, I will get better pics, when I am done with the plenum. Sorry my camera sucks......

Top is rear of intake
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/intakeplenumjpgsmall.jpg
Towards rear runners
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/CarPictures06jpgsmall.jpg
Towards front runners
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/CarPictures05jpgsmall.jpg
Entire Intake.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/CarPictures08jpgsmall.jpg

Awesome Bill

02-27-2009, 12:13 PM

that is what it is supposed to look like. As you noticed, its not dead center nor has to be.

lun40119

02-27-2009, 01:11 PM

Thanks, I really liked how easy the shafts setup......they are the sh*t.

lun40119

02-28-2009, 03:47 AM

Latest picture...........

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/0226091745a_429222jpgsmall.jpg

want-a-be

03-01-2009, 05:52 PM

When are you planning on haveing this thing fired up Jake?

Don

lun40119

03-03-2009, 10:31 PM

It is ready to fire now Don, I am just going to have to wait for next Saturday. I want to fire it on the dyno down at Keiths. It had its first oil change last night though :D.......

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/th_oilprime.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/?action=view&current=oilprime.flv)

lun40119

03-04-2009, 01:21 AM

Here is the latest pic.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/0303091807a_465929.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/0303091739b_373575.jpg

lun40119

03-05-2009, 04:50 AM

Awesome Bill

03-06-2009, 11:32 AM

Without the spacer. Talked to Dart tech about it, not a big deal, just a heads up. I am using a spacer anyway.....just another one of those things that never bolts right on happy go lucky in THE REAL WORLD.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/P3021487jpgsmall.jpg
That spring set up will wear the throttle bore out pretty quickly. 1 on top and one on the bottom will make the carb live a lot longer and also keep the a/f ratio from getting lean down low. Just a thought to think about.

lun40119

03-06-2009, 11:54 AM

It binds though???? I used the light springs, cause I didn't like the stiff pedal. Thanks though.

Awesome Bill

03-08-2009, 12:47 PM

I did not say use lighter springs, I said put 1 on top and 1 on the bottom so the spring pressure is not wearing one side of the throttle bore out.

lun40119

03-08-2009, 11:39 PM

Right, if I hook the spring in the lower hole, it catches on the bracket. I wasn't really happy with that setup at all. It is the Moroso64919. With that billet baseplate the bracket doesn't sit will on the carb. Had to used two shims.

Awesome Bill

03-13-2009, 11:53 AM

I always use the 1 bottom 1 top, your bracket seems to be the problem. That bracket must of not been very thought out by the manufacture!

lun40119

03-13-2009, 01:15 PM

I was putzing around with it the other day and made it work. Like I said, it is from Moroso. I think it is up too high off the carb baseplate, but it has to be that high to get over the 50cc pump in the front. Ill keep you up to date, tomorrow is the dyno date.

lun40119

03-14-2009, 11:35 PM

We spent the better part of the day on the dyno today. The guy who was supposed to be there to do the tuning was unable to attend, so it was just us novices there to fend for ourselves. Had a couple of deals. Low speed circuit is super lean, but when we loaded it, it came back to our 12.2-12.5 marks. I brought along some good gas, and started with the timing at 32° total locked. Made one pull and ended up just under 600hp, and 550 tq. I didn't bring the sheets, but I think it was like 589,552. We did some other messing around, but didn't really get too far. The carb really seems to go rich at 7200-7400. BSFC's get up over .500, and HP starts to fall. We probably made 10-15 pulls. I am sure there is more in it, but the guy who is going to finish it will start working on it on monday. We are going to switch it over to 93 octane, and the start messing with the timing. I am sure there was alot left in it, and the 610+mark was there with just timing, but we figured we wouldn't really waste the time tuning on fuel that wasn't going to be run in it anyway. Let me know your thoughts. I will have some vids shortly, I just have to edit them for content..........:D Bunch of Wisconsin Rednecks with poty mouths :D

lun40119

03-15-2009, 02:32 AM

want-a-be

03-15-2009, 04:03 AM

At what RPM was the tq peak and the hp peak at?

Don

CNC BLOCKS

03-15-2009, 01:42 PM

Here is a short clip......Ill have more when I get time.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/th_DartSBCShort.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/?action=view&current=DartSBCShort.flv)

Jake

There was no A/F meter or turbine on top of the carb during the pull!! and is needed to get an accurate A/F reading.

Good luck on Monday Carl

lun40119

03-16-2009, 12:07 AM

Carl I was looking at the BSFC's.

lun40119

03-16-2009, 12:33 AM

At what RPM was the tq peak and the hp peak at?

Don

Tq was around 5200-5500, and the HP was good til 7500 when it started going rich. I will have to get back to you with the details when I get the paperwork. It is still on the dyno right now, I will be picking it up next weekend.

malihoochie

03-20-2009, 10:55 PM

Nice looking motor Jake. Keep us updated on the dyno results.

lun40119

03-21-2009, 12:09 AM

Tomorrow I will be picking it up and dynoing that 502. It has Pro 1's on it, 325's. And a Hyd Roller with 255/258 at .050. That is the one with the pretty Dart Valve covers. Ill let you know. I think the best number they got out of my engine was 624hp, and around that 550 tq. Should be enough to get to the grocery store and back. June 5 we leave for Bristol with the Power tour. I think that will be a good test for this thing. I know that it is well seasoned. They used it as a test mule at Keiths shop for the last week on the dyno. They were testing oil, plugs, gas, different carbs. It actually made the best HP with a carb that isn't mine. Ill let you know, and I will be posting some vids of that 502. Thanks for the interest.

CNC BLOCKS

03-21-2009, 02:42 PM

Jake your going to have quite a weapon for the street!!!! NICE BUILD

lun40119

03-22-2009, 05:19 AM

Thanks Carl, I am really happy with this thing. I got it in the car, just not all hooked up.............I have been up since 4:30, its miller time :D

lun40119

03-22-2009, 05:24 AM

Carl, with 20/50 in this thing, it is out of control with oil pressure, like 110lbs. But with 10/30 synthetic, it is in the low 90's at 7800-8000. You think that is still too high???, and what do I do next????

lun40119

03-22-2009, 06:01 AM

Ok, not quite Miller time yet.......here is a couple pics for you :D

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/0321092052a_392262.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/0321092352a_384756.jpg

CNC BLOCKS

03-22-2009, 06:35 AM

lun40119

03-22-2009, 03:45 PM

I would have to ask John to know for sure, but I think it was around 220°-250° range.

Trmnatr

03-23-2009, 06:00 PM

Jake,

Im a day late and a dollar short :D but i will say it anyways

With a Dart intake, if your using the pressure port behind the intake the Dart intake will need to be relieved with the grinder a slight amount (i do it to every one before i install them)

lun40119

03-24-2009, 03:26 AM

I had to remove part of the front and rear clover to about the port anyway to work with the HVH spacer, there was a huge ledge there. Cant have that :D

Thanks Butch.

lun40119

03-24-2009, 03:32 AM

Here is another big of good info.........The counter sink on the starter bolt holes doesn't fit my starter bolts. I put 4" stainless bolts in it, but they don't keep the starter from moving. I just started it and the starter moved and zipped the flexplate pretty good. Now what???????????

Trmnatr

03-24-2009, 04:47 PM

lun40119

03-25-2009, 04:32 AM

I cut the last 4 threads off the bolt and it works fine now..........false alarm.

lun40119

03-30-2009, 10:05 PM

Well, on to the next dillema. I have already talked to several people from this board, and have come up with just as many answers. Here is what is happening. When the engine gets up in the rpm's it looses around 20lbs oil pressure. The second I let off it comes back. It happens all the time and is rpm related. It has nothing to do with g-force. I tried the simple stuff like an oil and filter change. On sunday I pulled it back out and took the pan off, The Coated H's don't even look like they have been run yet. I ordered a different pump, I had the 10550 Melling which is a 25% over stock volume pump in it. After talking to Melling, and a number of guys here, I decided to purchase a 10552C pump, and try that. (I know Bill) Spur gear pump. It is what I am going to try. Remember I am in my 20's and I know everything. Ill let you guys know what I come up with. Here is a vid of a wide open pull.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/th_BROIL1.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w26/bells67/?action=view&current=BROIL1.flv)

lun40119

03-30-2009, 10:10 PM

Here it is unloaded.........

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/95SStorm/th_BROILREVNEUTRAL.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/95SStorm/?action=view&current=BROILREVNEUTRAL.flv)

malibu1979

04-09-2009, 12:30 AM

jake , any updates on this ?

lun40119

04-09-2009, 11:54 AM

Yes, put 10552c and it got better. It still would do it under acceleration though, but not in neutral. It is a Canton Pan, 6qt system. I have 5.5qts in the system right now and it is fine. Hopefully we can get some studs for this block, and I can use a stud mounted system.

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 01:34 AM

these pictures make me fill like im working on a briggs motor, purty blocks

rubberduck

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 01:36 AM

oh yeah how do i post pics?

lun40119

04-15-2009, 02:37 AM

go to photobucket or anyother hosting site, and upload your pics/vids, and then post the links here. Hope this helps.

Awesome Bill

04-15-2009, 11:30 AM

Your oil pan is not working to keep air out of the oil and getting the oil back to the pan! With that stroke, your beating the ____ out of the oil and making some nice airated oil.

lun40119

04-15-2009, 02:16 PM

Gathered that, took some oil out and it is better.........when I asked this before, why did you tell me that I was sucking the pan dry. Well first you told me I had no reason so turn this thing above 6800 cause it wasn't making any power there. There was no mention 2 wks ago of me not controlling the oil. Hindsight is always 20/20.

CNC BLOCKS

04-15-2009, 03:50 PM

Your oil pan is not working to keep air out of the oil and getting the oil back to the pan! With that stroke, your beating the ____ out of the oil and making some nice airated oil.

I talked to Jake after he talked to you a whaile back and you told him he was sucking the pan dry and I told him it was a windage and pan issue and there was no way you were sucking the pan dry and where are you going to put 7 quarts of oil on top of the engine.

Well at least know your starting to make a little more sence, Sucking the pan dry YA RIGHT.

lun40119

04-15-2009, 03:59 PM

Ive got to hand it to you Carl, you have been spot on with everything on this build. You even told me back in Jan, that a 10550 was way too much pump, but I didn't listen, and now I have the pump that you wanted to use in it.

No I told you so'ssssss :D

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 05:17 PM

thanks lun40119, got pics on photobucket, ill ask my teenagers how to do it, i dont

see a browse button to click on

thatsa purty SBC, dont worry i wont posta pic of the briggs motor

rubberduck

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 05:24 PM

ok ill ask teenagers

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 06:36 PM

trying one more time, glad someone deleted all my other attemps

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 06:40 PM

wanna figure out how you do it with a big picture

Dart Vader

04-15-2009, 06:42 PM

trying one more time, glad someone deleted all my other attemps
Yup, that was me.

In the future you can use the "Preview Post" button when you are making a post to make sure it's going to look right, that way you don't have to actually post it if it doesn't look right.

rbrduck71

04-15-2009, 07:10 PM

<a href="http://s618.photobucket.com/albums/tt267/rbrduck71/?action=view&current=hp_scanDS_93282144025.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt267/rbrduck71/hp_scanDS_93282144025.jpg" border="0" alt="got super scoops"></a>

FINALLY!!!