Flow #s and head recomendations

[n2omaverick]

Can someone tell me where to get flow numbers for the Iron eagle and the pro 1 for the SBF. Or just post them at .500, .550 and .600 I just pulled off some EDE performers and need to make a decision now.
Street driven 66 mustang 3.80 gear .040 302 cam is 224, 234 @.050 car weighs 2450#s. Last dyno at rear wheels was 321 @ 5700 hoping for 375 but only changing heads, intake is RPM. Carb is proform 650 and headers are 1 5/8. Coments? Or head recomendations would be great.... Come on ford guys lay it on me.
Mav.

[Dart Vader]

I've attached a PDF with flow numbers on it.

Keep in mind that these figures are somewhat limited in usefulness since the heads are wet-flow designed and wet-flow numbers don't translate in dry flow figures.

[n2omaverick]

So all things being = the 195 head is 15% bigger than the 170 head. Simple math tells us that 170x1.15 = 195 yet the flow numbers are far from 15% better. Doesnt this mean that velocity is lost on the bigger head? If velocity is lost then the smaller head would be the better performer on a smaller cube motor like mine. Where does the larger head make up the lost ground, if its only at much higher rpms which is not where a street/strip car will spend the majority of its time then the 170 is the way to go. I will be putting together a 331 this year and dont want to buy another set of heads so I kind of need to be making a decision based on where I will be and not where I am at. But the 23 cubes I will be picking up wont make all that much difference. In NA form I need to make the right choice. Dont want low end to suffer but need brutal power from 3-6500 ( brutal probably isnt the appropriate word) just torn between the AFR 185 and your 2 choices, I know from many articles and DYNO sheets the AFR will work and work well on both my 308 and the future 331/347. Wish you had dyno runs on a 302 with your 170s and 195s vs the 165/185 afr. You point I will follow.
Mav.
"negative ghost rider that pattern is full"

[Awesome Bill]

Your confused and not confused, you answered your own question. A 331 street engine will suffer with a 195 head from 2000-4000 rpm if you choose the same camshaft, gear, converter etc. If you use a larger head, you have to build for it. All those articles about what works is nothing but bull____ for ink to spread on paper. The velocity of those 2 heads will prove on the dyno for your combination which one works in your application. I have actually dyno tested a 331, with the 170 head and the 195 head not even a year ago. The 195 head made more power across the board above 4000 rpm, but the 170 head killed it from 2000 rpm to 4000 rpm by over 40lbs of torque. Now we did use 2 camshafts also, different story. But we ended up using the 195 because with the cam change and a 570 cfm Holley, made the best power, 375 @ 6000 rpm over 355 @ 5500 with the 170 head. But even now driving the car, you can tell under 3500 the engine is soft. We did not change the heads back because the customer opted for the top end power and I did not want to change them out. Camshaft was increased 4°'s and lift was pumped up to .575 for the larger head. We also put the lobe sep @ 114 for a nice broad torque curve. The tight lobe sep of 106 was down on torque except for 1 spot which it peaked very quickly and ended. Also vacuum was down with the tight lobe sep.

You also need to remember, you have a full exhaust system that will kill the large heads, also you have driveability to factor in. Watch those articles, I have seen some stupid HP #'s which I know for a fact is bogus! Real world driving, pull 25% of those dyno #'s and your close. Actual e.t. proves power with weight of car and mph. Even then, they won't tell you everything. Use the 170 heads, have them cleaned up and you'll love it.

[MadDAWG]

I to am switching from the Eddys to Pro1 195s. Email me and I'll send you the flow results I got compairing them. Both were done by the same shop on the same equipment, but at different times. It's kind of interesting.

[n2omaverick]

I cant email you on this board until I have 20 posts. Shoot me an email with your flow results .
nmraracing at aol dot com
Dave

[Dart Vader]

I cant email you on this board until I have 20 posts. Shoot me an email with your flow results .
nmraracing at aol dot com
Dave
Didn't realize I had set it so high.
I'm lowering the post count to 12 for PMing and emails.
Should still keep the spamming down and it will be more convenient for users.

[n2omaverick]

Made full year end bonus! Am ordering my dart based 363 from ford strokers in 2 weeks. Ended up buying the 195 heads and have been running them with the
n71 cam in my 308. I am very happy with the way it performes now that I have the right converter. OK million dollar question. My plans were to put the n71 (anderson motor sports) cam in the 363 and re-use your 195 cc heads. I may upgrade to a victor jr intake and ditch the rpm air gap. Do you think these heads with that cam (575 lift 236 / 240 @ 050 on a 110) is the way to go with this amount of cubes? and if so am I leaving a lot on the table? (street driven NA car) 9" converter flashes 3400.
Mav.....

[want-a-be]

Looks like you're in the hunt there to me. As far as the intake goes,...what RPM do you turn this to?

Don

[n2omaverick]

Looks like you're in the hunt there to me. As far as the intake goes,...what RPM do you turn this to?

Don

6800. Thats why I am skeptical as to weather or not I need a victor jr intake or a funnel web. If I step up the cam for the bigger cubes I would still keep the duration @050 in the 240-248 range since the compression will only be 10.5 to 1. The cam I am looking at that was recomended was the N91 which is 240/248 and still 575 lift on a 110. basic range of 3200 to 6800. Decisions decisions. Of course drag guys are saying the heads and cam and intake are too small, but the car is down right violent now because its so light. The nitrous has 150 jets in it and feels like a 300 shot. (cheater plate) cruising and streetability @3200 is important to me since this puts me at 65 mph on the highway and keeps the converter heat to a minimum. But 10's without the bottle are a must!

[Awesome Bill]

Nitrous always clears everything and all short comings up really quick and you can run solid junk and make it fly. N/A is a totally different story with everything you choose if you have to rely on skill to make the power. The choise are a little tighter and you can loose a ton of needed power quickly with the wrong decision and application choices.

[want-a-be]

6800. Thats why I am skeptical as to weather or not I need a victor jr intake or a funnel web. If I step up the cam for the bigger cubes I would still keep the duration @050 in the 240-248 range since the compression will only be 10.5 to 1. The cam I am looking at that was recomended was the N91 which is 240/248 and still 575 lift on a 110. basic range of 3200 to 6800. Decisions decisions. Of course drag guys are saying the heads and cam and intake are too small, but the car is down right violent now because its so light. The nitrous has 150 jets in it and feels like a 300 shot. (cheater plate) cruising and streetability @3200 is important to me since this puts me at 65 mph on the highway and keeps the converter heat to a minimum. But 10's without the bottle are a must!

I would stick with the Air Gap since you are wanting to stay under 6800rpm. Especially since you're wanting to drive on the street.

The Vic may help a bit but I doubt enough to warrent the change. Depending on which vic intake you'd look at running, I'd want to do some plemun wrok first also.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

Carb is to big and headers are too big also. At 5700 rpm, your carb should be with closed exhaust should be a 500cfm. even with open exhaust it will only need 550 or less. Drop the carb down and go back to the dyno and you will see you torque #'s go threw the roof.

[n2omaverick]

Carb is to big and headers are too big also. At 5700 rpm, your carb should be with closed exhaust should be a 500cfm. even with open exhaust it will only need 550 or less. Drop the carb down and go back to the dyno and you will see you torque #'s go threw the roof.

before the dart heads and with the old performer rpm flat tappet cam and lifters I had the 575 BG, Since the upgrades I now run the BG demon 650 DP. There was a net loss in torque but it was under 3k. With the 363 comimg I dont think putting the 575 back on will work but hell its only dyno time. But 1 5/8 headers too big? Now im lost.

Any way, found a used N91 so I will upgrade the cam during the process.
Big question, my current block is a 1974 so I have the anderson cam and the cross bar retro lifters, will they work in the shp dart block or will the oil holes be too low?