Dart SHP Style LTx Block?

[Dart Vader]

Would you have any interest in an SHP style LTx block?

Feel free to chime in with thoughts and comments.

[CLAYTONRACING]

Lots of them.

[biggin'89]

Im very interested in this block. I have a 95 camaro which i have built H/C 355 in for now, but soon hope to start building a turbo motor for it and would really like a big bore aftermarket block. BUT! for me to be interested in it, it must have the factory appearance and have all of the factory mounting holes for brackets. I would like the option of having a 4.125 cylinder wall and preferably be able to clear a 4" stroke without clearancing.

Thanks
Kyler

[Transamman25]

I'm with kyler on this one ...

My current engine combo is a built 396 pushing well over 800 to the rear wheels, For my next combo i was thinking a turbo'd 454 small block. Mine will mainly be a braggin rights show car that will see the track each weekend. A 4.125 bore on a 4 inch stroke would be perfect. Stock appearance as well as mounting holes for stock accesories would also also be a plus.

On a side note ....
I would also buy heads that would flow in the 230ish range if that is something you would be interested in producing !

[Paulster2]

I would be extremely interested in an LTx block in 4.125 guise. I've always been a BBC fan, but since I own a 94 Camaro, this is very problematic. A large displacement LTx block would do wonders for the car. I'm very happy Jerry Clayton is helping the push forward on this ... it means we have a heavy hitter out there trying to help our LT1/4 cars reach our performance goals. This would also be of great benefit to the Caprice/Impy crowd ... replace those whimpy "baby" LT1s with some true muscle. I'm highly excited at the prospect!

[Paulster2]

...On a side note ....
I would also buy heads that would flow in the 230ish range if that is something you would be interested in producing !I'm hoping you're meaning "330ish" range (or better?) :D If you want 230, stick with stockers! Just playing, but I agree with you!

[Chris]

Would love to see this happen! My tired old 120k block isnt going to do much good if I rip it out of the car for what a 383 or 396 . No for all the machine work put into a old block you would be crazy not to upgrade to a SHP Dart block.


Looking forward to building one = )

- Current Specs
350 lt1 - comp Valvetrain
1993 Transam

[Grr]

I will need this block in the next couple years. My 355 with alot of money in it isnt enough. Block problems over 900whp (22psi) is a limiting factor. This block HAS to hold 1500hp to be worth it though.

[94ta383]

I definetly would want one, it would be nice to see something that could handle more than 200 shot of nitrous continuously. I'm running a 383 with AFR heads and would love to go bigger and up the amount of nitrous I could push to the motor.

[boosted-lt1]

I would certainly consider this for my next turbo motor. I recently picked up a stock block to go to town on but might have to put the brakes on it!

Thanks,
Scott.

[1badz]

Definately would be interested.. My motor is on it's way out..

[joelster]

I'll take 1 please!

I can't believe it has taken this long to get one to the market to be honest. I can name at least 7 or 8 guys in my area alone who have generic "383" LT1's. Let's break down the cost of setting up a stock block to 383 cubes:

Purchasing billet 4-bolt splayed caps= $400
Aligning mains, boring cylinders, honing cylinders, decking, installing cam bearings, etc, etc, etc= $800-$1000 (approx)
Not to mention clearancing for a stroker crank........
Not to mention hard-filling it if it is going to see some abuse........

^^^^what are you left with there? A maxed out factory block that is scrap metal if anything should happen to it. Sure you can make a 2-bolt 383, but that is not a very smart thing to do.

A Dart SHP block would be SUBSTANTIALLY stronger to begin with (you guys already know this), and leave a lot of room to grow even at 420+ cubes on the initial build.

As stated in an earlier poct above, IT MUST LOOK IDENTICAL. You guys can throw the DART logo on it, but it has to retain all accessories.

How about a tall deck option? I can run some intake spacers. Just throwing that out there.

[JPack]

Ah, finally got on here and posting after spreading the word on the forums.

I am really excited to see this finally come alive. You all have no idea what it means to all of us die hard LTX owners. This should have been done years ago.

Most of these cars running a LTX are to the point of needing replacement engines. The cost involved in machining a good block, if you can find one will keep increasing as they are more and more hard to find.

There is a huge crowd that loves these engines and it is a shame they didn't have a longer run. Having the reverse flow cooling is what did it for me when I purchased. I could have easily bought an LSX car, but there was never any doubt as to which one I would end up with.

I have had the privilege of working with Jerry and Corey Clayton to build my current 355 lt. They pulled off a lot of tricks and one off's on my set up to deliver unexpected numbers. I can not wait until this new block comes out to see them work their magic on one for me.

The block and front cover that was requested from the Clayton's by you, has been dropped off at their shop for you. I am glad I can help in anyway. I love hearing the updates from Jerry and look forward to hearing my new block is in their shop.

I ask that you don't let this fall through the cracks as most of the aftermarket has done for us LT guys. We have been longing for the day something like this would happen. The others will follow with aftermarket parts as soon as a huge name like you steps up to the plate. I think you will be a little overwhelmed at the response and sales you are about to get.

I thank you again, and know that those in the LTX community appreciate you for this.

Jim Packard
President of Northern Illinois F-Body Association

[jerry clayton]

Well, since Corey had posted I wasn't going to ---but----I had a 92 Corvette with a ZO7 package and I have built my wife a 33 Ford coupe with a special 96 LT engine I got from GM engineering several years ago---so I guess I'm an elgable voter and I of course vote overwhelinly for it----
Realizing that it is stroke limited by cam location, I would like to be able to get it out to about 4.250 bore and possibly if the casting had enough deck material to do plus .100 on the deck (9.125) for a little more piston crown thickness with a 4 stroke and 6 inch rod.


I want to call it a LT 427---seems a magic number---or is that now 7.0 liter???Naaaa----427 errrrrDART LT 427----yeh, thats it DART LT 427---maybe someone can do a emblem--Amanda, where are you?

Jerry

[biglt1]

NOPE I already ran a 396 and had a 383 and with the ltx heads out there and what SB1 heads can be converted anybody can still make more hp and tq for the same money swapping up to a LSx anything. Way more aftermarket stuff out there the LT platform has been dead for years and it ain't commin back. Sure peeps posting here will all be positive and guys not interested won't even post or vote. Move forward in technology, not backwards. I and how many thousands of others that have done so also won't look back? Reality sinks in.......

Dart would be way better off making a LSx block like World has. THAT will make them some money!

[joelster]

NOPE I already ran a 396 and had a 383 and with the ltx heads out there and what SB1 heads can be converted anybody can still make more hp and tq for the same money swapping up to a LSx anything. Way more aftermarket stuff out there the LT platform has been dead for years and it ain't commin back. Sure peeps posting here will all be positive and guys not interested won't even post or vote. Move forward in technology, not backwards. I and how many thousands of others that have done so also won't look back? Reality sinks in.......

Dart would be way better off making a LSx block like World has. THAT will make them some money!

You mean the LSx is a better motor than the LTx? No kidding.

Dude, come on now, if we all thought like you do, we'd all be driving the same vehicle with the same motor. By your logic Dart should abandon their SBC stuff, BBC stuff.

The question is simply about the business numbers period. They really don't have to engineer the entire block , just the front portion of it. They need to know if there is enough interest in it to offset the costs of producing it, nothing more. We don't need to know that LSx stuff is better. We all know it is, it should be, it was the development of everything that Chevy learned over the years all rolled in to one.

[roadtrip120]

I would love to see a big cube LTX block available. I'll be buying one out of the first batch.

[fastlt1355]

This would be awesome... Finally a little new life to the neglected LT engines. I am very interested in this piece as it would definitely put me up a few notches in the grudge crowd..... Build it and they will come!

[Puck]

NOPE I already ran a 396 and had a 383 and with the ltx heads out there and what SB1 heads can be converted anybody can still make more hp and tq for the same money swapping up to a LSx anything. Way more aftermarket stuff out there the LT platform has been dead for years and it ain't commin back. Sure peeps posting here will all be positive and guys not interested won't even post or vote. Move forward in technology, not backwards. I and how many thousands of others that have done so also won't look back? Reality sinks in.......

Dart would be way better off making a LSx block like World has. THAT will make them some money!

Tell that to SBC guys since they are running even older, more outdated tech :rolleyes:. This could be the move forward that brings the LTX to much higher standards for both race and street builds.

I am a bit too soon for this since I just recently am tying together the ends on a fully forged 383 build, but if I was in need of a rebuild or just starting a new build it would be a no brainer.

Not only would the new block be big news, but it would push head manufacturers into developing and/or converting large runner race heads into reverse cooled LTX style heads. The amount of out of the box options available to LTX guys would be much higher, and I would expect other parts like intakes to also follow suit.

This block could be the boost needed to rekindle the LTX aftermarket.

[94zgreenmachine]

Dart would be way better off making a LSx block like World has. THAT will make them some money!

Dart ALREADY has an LS block......:rolleyes:

[94zgreenmachine]

Just so long as we can get some heads to fill the cylinders on this is big cube motor..... There are guys with stock blocks and GM heads that are already running 10's, so if this does go thru, we would at least need to raise the bar and avoid what Edelbrock has done with their LTX stuff.........

[1FASTSS]

I would be one of the first in line. I am planning on a rebuild this winter and if this block is confirmed and ready I would delay my plans for this to come out.

Build it and it will sell.

[lt1racer]

I have been always hoping for something like this. I really want to keep the car an LTx rather than swap over to an LSx and this would make it a no brainer for me. Consider one of those blocks sold to me if they come out.

[Fraxum]

Please build it! :D

[96WS6]

Dart ALREADY has an LS block......:rolleyes:

Exactly. Also, like someone mentioned already, some people don't really care to move on to an LS setup. I had the chance to move on when I sold the last LT1 but didn't. I like the underdog status, personally. I know the almighty dollar is what makes business go, but I hope Dart, with its solid reputation in the industry, will be more in this for the enthusiasts.

[96WS6]

Oh yeah, I would like to run an SBH 427 like this with low compression for a supercharged setup. Right now, I'm at 355 with an SC and this would be a healthy step up in power:D

[Crunkmaro]

give me an invoice and i will pay right now.

BRING IT ON!

[clovisautomotion]

I would definately buy aftermarket LT1 block

[unstable bob gable]

Even though I have a gadzillion bux wrapped up in machine work for the block I was planning on using for my Dominion 32V LT1 build, I love the thought of more cubes, better technology, and a stronger block. So, I will def give serious consideration to this block if it makes it to production status.

[reamo04]

give me an invoice and i will pay right now.

BRING IT ON!

same here

Current setup:
Stock LT1 block
4 bolt splayed block
-21 cc pistons 4.030
4340 eagle h-beams with L19 bolts
4340 eagle 3.48 crank
AI Ported trickflow heads
224/236 cam
80mm turbo

i would love to have a big cube engine so i can run an even bigger turbo without fear of spooling it. since I am forced induction heads arent such a limiting factor to me as N/A guys.

HOWEVER, a big cube boosted block must also be able to withstand 1000+ RWHP without fear of cracking like a factory block.

[ulakovic22]

I would pick one of these up in a second. I'm putting a 400 sleeve in a LTx block right now as a matter of fact.

[Puck]

Glad to see this is getting a lot of the LTX guys out of the woodwork. There is a bigger initial response then I would have expected, but it will take more then 30-something ÿes"polls on a forum to make this happen.

If you would even consider one of these blocks in the future, vote and post your thoughts!! I have a 0 miles high compression 383 stroker sitting on an engine stand that would be sold in a heatbeat if something like this came up in the near future.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I guess I will have gear up and get the programs for those blocks as I have had some calls on them lately.

[matt94z]

This is great news. I'm waiting in line for one of these.

[97 6speed z]

If it helps you Dart engineering guys out any ..... I have a fully dis-assembled four(4) bolt main LT1 block, which has been ..... stripped of all bearings/freeze plugs/fittings, etc., .... degreased, magnafluxed, and ..... is currently sitting on my engine stand .... located a thirty (30) minute drive away from your Troy, MI headquarters ..... which I could personally deliver to you upon one (1) day advance notice.

Please feel free to contact me by e-mail ..... if you want a completely "bare" four(4) bolt main, GM factory stock, LT1 block you could "digitize" ...... if not .... tomorrow ..... at least very, very, very .... soon! :D

[JPack]

If it helps you Dart engineering guys out any ..... I have a fully dis-assembled four(4) bolt main LT1 block, which has been ..... stripped of all bearings/freeze plugs/fittings, etc., .... degreased, magnafluxed, and ..... is currently sitting on my engine stand .... located a thirty (30) minute drive away from your Troy, MI headquarters ..... which I could personally deliver to you upon one (1) day advance notice.

Please feel free to contact me by e-mail ..... if you want a completely "bare" four(4) bolt main, GM factory stock, LT1 block you could "digitize" ...... if not tomorrow ..... at least very, very, very .... soon! :D

I have already provided the block that was requested as well as a front cover. Should be in their hands very soon!

[97 6speed z]

I have already provided the block that was requested as well as a front cover. Should be in their hands very soon!

With the normal "statistical variations" GM experiences in its production facilities .... I'm pretty sure the Dart Engineering Staff will want to measure SEVERAL LT1 blocks .... before they make any manufacturing decisions of their own. ;) I'm just giving them an opportunity to do that .... locally, and with a very quick "turn around" time. :)

[toby]

it would make sense to me anyone looking to build a 420+ ci sbc could start with this block. you could have 13 to 1 compression and still run pump gas. just have your cylinder head of choice converted for the reverse cooling. drag racers could save money by not having to run race gas.

[jakesz28]

I would have bought one for the current build if it was availible. I currently want to build a bigger in motor with a 4.125/4.155 bore and 4" stroke but I would have to have a 9.3" deck height. I would still want a good pin height to run a decent shot of nitrous.

[biggin'89]

I would have bought one for the current build if it was availible. I currently want to build a bigger in motor with a 4.125/4.155 bore and 4" stroke but I would have to have a 9.3" deck height. I would still want a good pin height to run a decent shot of nitrous.

I second this idea of the taller deck height.

[350Patriot]

I would definately buy one of these. It hard enough as it is to find a spare lt1 block, but finding one that is stronger and can be made into a big ci engine would be fantastic. A couple of people I work with have nitrous lt1's and one of them would love to be able to spray a 400 shot on top of a built 355 lt1.

[TURBOLTX]

I would love to be able to build something outragous with my next engine build, like a twin turbo ltx pushing 36psi from each turbo. If dart would release this block I would be buying one for sure, and be that much closer to my dream.

[Abdullah]

i'm interested in one for my 1996 LT1 caprice impala SS.

[LT1]

Just like the other poll running... would you have any interest in an SHP style LTx block?

Yes! Would be very interested for my 95 Z28.

[AdioSS]

This would be awesome!

I'd love to see a taller deck and raised cam location if possible?

And maybe, just MAYBE an option to allow swapping on Gen1 SBC heads without having to convert them to the LT1.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I see alot of guys on this thread with only one post HMM I find that a little interesting.

[jerry clayton]

Why do you find that interesting----this subject was put out to several other boards about the subject of an SHP LTx block that I have been talking to the Dart folks since December----The Dart people put up the poll and asked for comments after weeks of following the subject on other forums. This is now there own in house tabulation of numbers of LT car owners that would be interested in this project-----so I;m betting that a person with a single post here is exactly what Dart is looking for instead of multiple posts like you and me.

Anyway---I hope this goes forward and maybe the responses and the costs of converting the SHP is reasonable enough that they will do a raised cam/deck also like the Little M

Jerry Clayton

[AdioSS]

that is right on Mr. Clayton :D I didn't even know that Dart had a forum until that link was posted.

And from the looks of things, maybe instead of regular SHP style blocks, Dart might consider something more like an SHP/Iron Eagle hybrid block?


LT1 blocks are getting more difficult to find, but they are still relatively inexpensive. They have been shown to be able to take lots of power if built right. I might be going out on a limb here, but the only benefits that I can see of an SHP-style LTx block is the bigger bore size and probably a better quality iron. There are a lot of us out there that want a better block to build on. Dart's website says the SHP blocks are "Designed for high-performance and heavy-duty applications requiring up to 600 horsepower" but we know that the LT1 block can already take that much power and then some reliably.

If you look at the posts above and still to come, you will see that many people are interested in more than just a bigger bore size and better iron. Like I posted above, added deck height, raised cam height, spread oilpan rails and the ability to hold more horsepower would be big selling points. The idea of machining the deck of the block to be able to take either LT1 style heads or older style heads would be a HUGE benefit to this crowd. I have a set of 18 degree heads that I have been intending on converting to be used on an LT1 block, but I have been hesitating because in the back of my mind I can see myself outgrowing the abilities of the LT1 block and needing something stronger. Then I would need to unconvert my heads to work on the old style block. Good race heads have the ability to make more power naturally aspirated than what the SHP block is rated for...

The LS1 has spoiled us on the ability to make lots of power. It improved upon most of the earlier SBC shortcomings. Now those of us with the older LT1 vehicles want to make LSx horsepower, but we don't want to completely change over everything to the newer engine.

[Dart Vader]

I see alot of guys on this thread with only one post HMM I find that a little interesting.

We are currently exploring the idea through several venues around the web and have encouraged those with some interest in the idea to post here. So we have a lot of new sign ups posting to express their opinion on the idea. We've also gotten a lot of emails about it.

[AdioSS]

thank you Lord Vader

[CNC BLOCKS]

I hope it the block goes through as can start advertising the new blocks when they are ready and get the programs needed to do the work to them and up date the cam tunnel equipment as well.

[pmrASMS]

I just put together a 388ci clearanced, bored, and stroked LT1 block. I wish I would have had this option when I started, I will be interested in the future.

[Fast Vert]

I wish this would have been an option when I did my stroker LT1 - More cubes = more torque and I have a street car / convertible which it most certainly would have helped.:D

[GreasyB]

I have a set of dart lt1 heads ready to go on my engine. I would definatly love a block to match.

[ElteeMullet]

I have a set of dart lt1 heads ready to go on my engine. I would definatly love a block to match.



+1



Seeing that this is even being talked about has made me ever happier with my choice of heads. Glad to see that not everyone has forgot about us.

[pmrASMS]

I have a set of dart lt1 heads ready to go on my engine. I would definatly love a block to match.

I also went with dart heads on my LT1 build.

[kgkern01]

If this block will support a 4" or larger stroke, I believe the market for this would be great. However, if the maximum recommended bore x stroke for this SHP LT1 block ends up being the same as for the SBC SHP block of only 4.165" bore x 3.75" stroke giving a max ci of 409ci, then I don't think they will sell as well. Us LT1 guys want more cubes, and with a 396ci being the current max, only 13ci more wouldn't be worth it

HOWEVER, if NO or only a little clearancing is needed for a 4" or larger stroke, so that a 436ci (4.165 bore x 4"0 stroke) or larger could be built, then I think it would sell very well.

I know I am getting the parts together to rebuild my LT1 into a 385ci, but if this block becomes a reality in the near future, then I will definitely be putting it on hold, and start selling off the 385 parts to get one of these blocks, and build a 427ci (4.125 x 4) LT1 instead!!

[biggin'89]

now i understand what you guys are saying about raising the cam location, but we have to keep in mind most of us will still run the optispark. and I could be wrong, but won't raising it throw off the timing cover hole and opti mounting holes? im not sure if i would like the idea of having to use a different timing cover... that so far no one makes.

[AdioSS]

you can fit a 4" stroke in the LT1 block with a little work, so I'm sure you can fit a 4" stroke in the SHP block.

I didn't think about having to move the Opti and changing the front cover. Doh...

[joelster]

now i understand what you guys are saying about raising the cam location, but we have to keep in mind most of us will still run the optispark. and I could be wrong, but won't raising it throw off the timing cover hole and opti mounting holes? im not sure if i would like the idea of having to use a different timing cover... that so far no one makes.

Maybe they could make it an option?

Option #1- standard cam location, standard deck height
Option #2- raised cam, tall deck

For me personally, I will sacrifice a stupid opti, and get a nice distributor, which will allow 7500+rpm running. The pro's outweigh the con's in my case. I realize that the majority of you guys will want to continue running the opti. I would still buy one of these blocks if it had a standard cam location, the cam location is not a make-it or break-it deal for me. The Big-bore and big-stroke capabilities are what matters to me.

[chevyforever]

I'm overworking my whole suspension (coil over, completely heim jointed and so on) and brakes (6-piston 342mm) at the moment to get a killer basis for a big bad N/A LTx in the future!

So I'll be more than happy if this DART LTx block will come true!!!

I'm extremely interested!!!

Greetz from a german vette psycho
Rico

[briannutter]

Plus 1 from me!

[Firebat]

In a year or 2, I'll be hoping this block is around. I was originally planning on buying another LT1 block and building my next engine in my spare time. I was planning on going with a 396 stroker LTx. My car didn't come factory with a LT1 either, its an 86 trans am. There are a few other people like me who decide to swap in a LT1 because they are cheaper than a LS1 swap then decide to upgrade later.

[kgkern01]

As long as a 4" stroke could be used with some minor clearancing and a small base circle cam, then I would be ALL for this block! I would LOVE to have a 13:1 CR E85 fueled 427 LT1 pushing 600 hp, AND streetable!!!

[1FASTSS]

Dart,

If this block was or is going to be made what kind of time frame would we be looking at? Within the next year, 2 years from now? How long of a wait would we be looking at?

Only asking since there seems to be a lot of interest and it looks like you would sell a lot of them.

[roadtrip120]

I just watched the SHP video on the main Dart page, pretty interesting stuff how it is built.



Come on Dart make us a LTX Block :D

[Ray @ Nitrous Outlet]

I would also be interested in an aftermarket block.....will likely be starting a new engine build this summer ;)

[roadtrip120]

I found this info on the Ford SHP block.

"Is there anyway people need to treat the SHP block differently then your higher end Iron blocks (machining, power, assembly) ?

The SHP block is not intended to accommodate the kind of horsepower levels which are possible with our race blocks, 600 HP is the recommended maximum. The SHP block is finish machined and only requires the engine builder to final hone the cylinders to suit the pistons before assembly, while race blocks are frequently subject to a variety of customized machining options."



I feel i would be speaking for all of the LTX customers , when i say 600hp will not be enough, plan on 1200hp flywheel.

[Awesome Bill]

Believe me, it will handle way more with no problems. They have to put some type of rating on it.

[joelster]

I found this info on the Ford SHP block.

"Is there anyway people need to treat the SHP block differently then your higher end Iron blocks (machining, power, assembly) ?

The SHP block is not intended to accommodate the kind of horsepower levels which are possible with our race blocks, 600 HP is the recommended maximum. The SHP block is finish machined and only requires the engine builder to final hone the cylinders to suit the pistons before assembly, while race blocks are frequently subject to a variety of customized machining options."



I feel i would be speaking for all of the LTX customers , when i say 600hp will not be enough, plan on 1200hp flywheel.

Marketing 101

If they list what the block is really capable of they won't sell any Iron Eagle blocks. A stock GM LT1 block can go to 600 without any problems. I will push this way beyond 600 without a worry.

[Keys Z28]

I would without a doubt be interested in this block!!! I've always wanted big ic in my camaro but the problem was I wanted a stock look for the sleeper look " What its just a lt1 what are you worried about you can beat me" :Dhehehe I got the credit card in hand just say when i can buy!!!!!

[roadtrip120]

Believe me, it will handle way more with no problems. They have to put some type of rating on it.


Ok i was getting worried for a second, lol.

Thanks for the info

[brougham]

I see alot of guys on this thread with only one post HMM I find that a little interesting.

yes your dight all saying NEW GUY looks a bit sus to me lets all get to gether and post a hole heap of threads. i seen on a nother site about dart wanting feed back on a ltx block and said get on there and post your interests and we can make it hapen. keep in mind dart is a busines to make $$$ and good products for the long term not something that will please a small group this costs a lot of $$$ to set up and time

[joelster]

yes your dight all saying NEW GUY looks a bit sus to me lets all get to gether and post a hole heap of threads. i seen on a nother site about dart wanting feed back on a ltx block and said get on there and post your interests and we can make it hapen. keep in mind dart is a busines to make $$$ and good products for the long term not something that will please a small group this costs a lot of $$$ to set up and time

I am new here. Am I supposed to post in the Ford threads too? Or the big-block chevy threads? No thanks. I have a big set of AFR heads already. I just need an LTx block that can handle some cubes. So do a LOT of people. Cross reference these screen names on here if you want to. The "new guys" posting on here are veterans on the other "LTx" and "LSx" forums and have cars to boot. I am here because they asked for feedback on the product.

So I gave some feedback.

[RatSSled]

I might buy one to stay LTx rather than swap to LSx for an FI build. I know of one other guy that will be very interested, although it could hurt his market on LT1 modified Donovan blocks.

Will there be other enhancements, like priority oiling, siamese bores, altered deck heights?

[lun40119]

I am new here. Am I supposed to post in the Ford threads too? Or the big-block chevy threads? No thanks. I have a big set of AFR heads already. I just need an LTx block that can handle some cubes. So do a LOT of people. Cross reference these screen names on here if you want to. The "new guys" posting on here are veterans on the other "LTx" and "LSx" forums and have cars to boot. I am here because they asked for feedback on the product.

So I gave some feedback.

I have read over on these boards. I just hope that the bickering and childish name calling stays over there. A good friend of mine is on the LS1 board alot. I have weighed his car here at work, and have seen his car run the number numerous times, and all of these kids over there, just cannot process it. Usually ends up in name calling and a locked thread.

As far as feedback, the cubes would be great for the LTx crowd, but you all will have to rethink your cylinder head/ cam choices to make it work.

[joelster]

I have read over on these boards. I just hope that the bickering and childish name calling stays over there. A good friend of mine is on the LS1 board alot. I have weighed his car here at work, and have seen his car run the number numerous times, and all of these kids over there, just cannot process it. Usually ends up in name calling and a locked thread.

As far as feedback, the cubes would be great for the LTx crowd, but you all will have to rethink your cylinder head/ cam choices to make it work.

My heads flow well over 300ish out of the box. They will LOVE 420+ cubes. A worked set of stock castings won't cut it.

As for LS1tech.........the only threads that get consistently "locked" are when the "AI" guys get involved in a pissing match with the "LE" guys. It happens in a lot of the threads. Go onto LTxtech, there is none of that crap over there.

[lun40119]

I am well versed in the bickering. I am just asking that you leave it there.

[fuel]

i would love to build a 427 right now

[JPack]

My spare block and front cover should be in Darts hands as I type this.

Maybe they can speak up on what the next steps are for this to happen.

On the forums I have this link posted on, the views of those threads skyrocketed in a few short days. They are still climbing. I know there is a ton on intrest in this. The views and pages of posts in those threads is a good example.

[96silverram]

I am really looking forward to DART building a LTx block ! Hoping they will find value in giving the LTx community a product that is drastically needed. It would definitely be nice to have a 427 LT1 making 600 hp flywheel :cool:

[kgkern01]

I am really looking forward to DART building a LTx block ! Hoping they will find value in giving the LTx community a product that is drastically needed. It would definitely be nice to have a 427 LT1 making 600 hp flywheel :cool:

Same here!

So, is there any word as to the probability of this block, and if so, approximate time until market??
My 385 build is officially on hold in hopes of this block!!

[Dart Vader]

This block is not under development currently. We are just gathering input from customers on the idea. I don't want to represent it as something we are definitely going to do, it's a future possibility.

Thanks very much for all the thoughts and feedback from those who have posted here, or emailed!

[joelster]

This block is not under development currently. We are just gathering input from customers on the idea. I don't want to represent it as something we are definitely going to do, it's a future possibility.

Thanks very much for all the thoughts and feedback from those who have posted here, or emailed!

Well that is not good news in my book.

I have to ask these OBVIOUS questions......

1. How much do you guys think it will cost to build this block?
2. How many units do you have to sell to make it worthwhile?
3. EXACTLY how much engineering do you have to do to make it? I mean, come on now..........an LT1 block is about 90% IDENTICAL to a sbc, and you guys have several of those out there right now. How much of the mold do you REALLY have to change. Don't tell me you have to engineer a completely new casting from front to back, because that is bs.

I think you guys are underestimating the market. You can literally find LT1 cars anywhere for $3000 without looking hard. They will have 100,000+ miles on them, but if there was a block option out there to get them over 400 cubes for under $2g, you'd bet your ass more people would take notice

[1FASTSS]

I can understand the gathering of information to see if its something that would be worth while, but these should have time frames but on them. The collection of information is great but when would you think a decision would be made going either way?

[lun40119]

I can't speak for the guys at Dart, but I can offer a different outlook on things. The LT1 community is there, but it is a relatively small communty. Really what would be the benifits of running an LT1. If you are looking for the fuel injection side of things, it would be foolish not to build an LS style mill. I know you won't see many if any Gen 1 guys purchasing an LT block. If it is fuel injection and the benifits of modern technology they are after, I would think they would get an LS style block. If they want to stay with a carbed 23° headed piece, then why not work with the gen 1 stuff. Really, what does the LT have to offer?????

Long story short, you guys all come over kicking and screaming that it would be such a great thing and millions would sell, but what happens when you all have a block. I think that it would be a poor business decision to build this block. The numbers just wouldn't be there to justify it. JMO, fire away!!!!!

[1FASTSS]

I can't speak for the guys at Dart, but I can offer a different outlook on things. The LT1 community is there, but it is a relatively small communty. Really what would be the benifits of running an LT1. If you are looking for the fuel injection side of things, it would be foolish not to build an LS style mill. I know you won't see many if any Gen 1 guys purchasing an LT block. If it is fuel injection and the benifits of modern technology they are after, I would think they would get an LS style block. If they want to stay with a carbed 23° headed piece, then why not work with the gen 1 stuff. Really, what does the LT have to offer?????

Long story short, you guys all come over kicking and screaming that it would be such a great thing and millions would sell, but what happens when you all have a block. I think that it would be a poor business decision to build this block. The numbers just wouldn't be there to justify it. JMO, fire away!!!!!

Well, why would I throw away all the thousands and thousands of dollars I've invested in my current LT1 setup to go with an LSx or Gen 1 setup?

I think that is a big waste of maoney unless your starting with an orginal car without the dollars spent into performance parts.

[jakesz28]

I saw a comment about only one post from some of us. Well I'm on other sites and this one I came to show my interest. I would be buying one of these without hesitation if it was availble. My current motor was handling an easy 725-750rwhp last year and that is on the small kit. I will be spraying a fair amount more. But I want to build a motor with a larger bore and a taller deck height. I hope you guys don't give up but I guess you know that there are blocks out there for us, we just can call it a LT1 if you decide this is a no go.

[Puck]

I can't speak for the guys at Dart, but I can offer a different outlook on things. The LT1 community is there, but it is a relatively small communty. Really what would be the benifits of running an LT1. If you are looking for the fuel injection side of things, it would be foolish not to build an LS style mill. I know you won't see many if any Gen 1 guys purchasing an LT block. If it is fuel injection and the benifits of modern technology they are after, I would think they would get an LS style block. If they want to stay with a carbed 23° headed piece, then why not work with the gen 1 stuff. Really, what does the LT have to offer?????

Long story short, you guys all come over kicking and screaming that it would be such a great thing and millions would sell, but what happens when you all have a block. I think that it would be a poor business decision to build this block. The numbers just wouldn't be there to justify it. JMO, fire away!!!!!

Factory style replacements? Race car block upgrades? Retro swaps? Nostalgia sake? Original looking replacement for rare cars that came with LTX engines? Reverse flow cooling? Sound of the last "true" iron block SBC? I could go on forever...

Your post is really quite meaningless - why does dart make aftermarket HONDA blocks, when I can literally make more horsepower with a motorcycle engine? The answer is because there are fans of that engine that will buy them. I think it would be silly to miss out on an opportunity like this to create an aftermarket LTX block. There are a lot of guys with some very fast LTX cars that just need the block available to take things to the next level. You can already see the trend in new LTX parts bein released, some flops and some very promising - Edlebrock's intake manifold, Darts recent head release, Trickflow 21* heads due any day now, LSX ECM/coil conversion kit just developed, Massive 230cc heads rumored to be under development, constant advancements in cam and head tech by guys like AI and LE, etc...all this in the last year or so, after the LTX platform was already labeled as "dead". It would be INSANE to not capitalize on this trend with a new block to make real use of thses new parts and set the new builds over the edge.

Think about the whole picture, not as just "another LT1 part".

[brougham]

i agre with Iun40119 and as for re tooling its not as easy as saying 90% is the same as the gen 1 block i have worked in a foundry there are a lot of factors to consider

[chevyforever]

Factory style replacements? Race car block upgrades? Retro swaps? Nostalgia sake? Original looking replacement for rare cars that came with LTX engines? Reverse flow cooling? Sound of the last "true" iron block SBC? I could go on forever...

Your post is really quite meaningless - why does dart make aftermarket HONDA blocks, when I can literally make more horsepower with a motorcycle engine? The answer is because there are fans of that engine that will buy them. I think it would be silly to miss out on an opportunity like this to create an aftermarket LTX block. There are a lot of guys with some very fast LTX cars that just need the block available to take things to the next level. You can already see the trend in new LTX parts bein released, some flops and some very promising - Edlebrock's intake manifold, Darts recent head release, Trickflow 21* heads due any day now, LSX ECM/coil conversion kit just developed, Massive 230cc heads rumored to be under development, constant advancements in cam and head tech by guys like AI and LE, etc...all this in the last year or so, after the LTX platform was already labeled as "dead". It would be INSANE to not capitalize on this trend with a new block to make real use of thses new parts and set the new builds over the edge.

Think about the whole picture, not as just "another LT1 part".

100% agree with you!

There is definitely a market for it and there are much guys (me, too) they desperately wanna have such a block!!!

Regards
Rico

[joelster]

I can't speak for the guys at Dart, but I can offer a different outlook on things. The LT1 community is there, but it is a relatively small communty.
It isn't THAT small. Having a big-block option would certainly open up some doors for people.
Really what would be the benifits of running an LT1.
Um...beating up on everything and anything with an inderdog LT1 motor. Still passing inspections (easily) with an OBDI diagnostic car. Picking up an LT1 car for about $3000 compared to $6000 for an LS1 car. Leaving plenty of money to mod the car.
If you are looking for the fuel injection side of things, it would be foolish not to build an LS style mill.
True, it is a better piece. but it's better than an sbc too, and Dart doesn't seem to have a problem filling the SBC market with all sorts of variations of SBC blocks.
I know you won't see many if any Gen 1 guys purchasing an LT block.
I will agree with you on that one, but only til next year when the current LSX swap, bore-fest is over and beaten to death. It's almost there now. It's the new "vogue" thing to do, pop an LS1 into a '69 camaro and be like every other poser out there.
If it is fuel injection and the benifits of modern technology they are after, I would think they would get an LS style block.
Have you priced LSx cylinder heads lately? The cars cost more to begin with ($3K+ more), the good heads are $2500+ , etc...The 18-23 year olds can't afford LSX stuff like that. Those guys are the future. they CAN afford an LT1 car on a college kid budget.
If they want to stay with a carbed 23° headed piece, then why not work with the gen 1 stuff. Really, what does the LT have to offer?????
Reverse cooling, more compression on pump gas= able to run a hotter cam more effectively, period.

Long story short, you guys all come over kicking and screaming that it would be such a great thing and millions would sell, but what happens when you all have a block.
I guarantee this block will be on the cover of GMHTP the instant it comes out. Even they are bored to death with LSx stuff. They print every last thing they can find on LT1's just to make the magazine a little more varied.
I think that it would be a poor business decision to build this block. The numbers just wouldn't be there to justify it. JMO, fire away!!!!!

How do you know what the numbers are? Seriously.......are you a DART insider? This would have to be one of the EASIEST projects they have ever done. Take their awesome SHP SBC block and copy the mold from cylinders 1+2 on back...it is IDENTICAL. All they have to do is re-engineer the front section.

How much does it cost to develop and produce? I have no idea what the R+D is.
How many do they have to sell to justify it? Again, I have no idea. 100? 500? 1000?

They make a damn Hunduh block but not an LT1 block, geez.

[jerry clayton]

There is a bigger market for the LT type block than there is for the gen 1 block--we have gen 1 little M and some shp blocks in stock and it seems that the market for them is shrinking as GM and many others build blocks of that type--I'm ready to place a order for 100 LT blocks for our shop for this season---at last count we had 88 people ready to go with our 427 configuration LT.

[lun40119]

There is a bigger market for the LT type block than there is for the gen 1 block--we have gen 1 little M and some shp blocks in stock and it seems that the market for them is shrinking as GM and many others build blocks of that type--I'm ready to place a order for 100 LT blocks for our shop for this season---at last count we had 88 people ready to go with our 427 configuration LT.

That is at best, silly, if you cater to the LT crowd, and that is who orders from you of course you will have LT's backordered. Ask Carl Hinkson, which he sells more off, Gen 1 or Gen 2. Ask Bill Cannon what he sells more of. I am not trying to say that the Gen 2 stuff is junk. I have two good friends that run Gen 2's both with AI heads and cams. They are impressive. I am just saying that the market just isn't there. You may sell a couple thousand blocks, and then what.

[jerry clayton]

Yep, you are probably 100% correct that those fellows sell more gen 1 than LT stuff--so do we--however, you are completely 100% wrong and offbase coming on here and picking on or be littleing the LT people about there being a better engine---I agree there are other engine choices out there, but those engines do not answer the needs or wants of the dedicated and 100%faithful LT vehicle enthusiasts. these LT car owners are a dedicated crowd of Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, Impala, Roadmaster and Fleetwood owners who have been abandoned by GM as for replacement parts and they are all going to come from the aftermarket. I defy you to come up with a group of vehicles of any make that are sporty, hi per formance and personal vehicles that are cared for in the level that these owners display------

So as for me---you can take a long hike on a short pier--or if its a wide pier drive your fart can equipped ricer-----

[lun40119]

Yep, you are probably 100% correct that those fellows sell more gen 1 than LT stuff--so do we--however, you are completely 100% wrong and offbase coming on here and picking on or be littleing the LT people about there being a better engine---I agree there are other engine choices out there, but those engines do not answer the needs or wants of the dedicated and 100%faithful LT vehicle enthusiasts. these LT car owners are a dedicated crowd of Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, Impala, Roadmaster and Fleetwood owners who have been abandoned by GM as for replacement parts and they are all going to come from the aftermarket. I defy you to come up with a group of vehicles of any make that are sporty, hi per formance and personal vehicles that are cared for in the level that these owners display------

So as for me---you can take a long hike on a short pier--or if its a wide pier drive your fart can equipped ricer-----

Jerry, at no time did I ever intend to belittle, or degrade any LT1 owner/driver. My friends and the people that know me could vouch, that I am one of the most open minded people when it comes to engines. My core group of people is about at mixed up as you can imagine. If it is quick, I love it. For instance. I own a 67 chevelle with all tube suspension from Global west, and a 600+hp small block. Friend Jim owns a 68 camaro with an injected 502 that makes around 600hp.
Buddy Shawn, owns a 92 Talon with over 600hp at the ground Buddy Dwayne daily drives a LT1 powered Caprice that runs 11.9s at 4200lbs, and is still tame enough to take granny to the grocery store.
Guy I know Mark, has a boat with a Blown nitrous injected big block Chevy.

Long story short, I was not trying to offend anyone, merely give my opinion.

[lun40119]

Furthermore, this is what I see. Dart asked for opinions on this new block. They got 8quick pages from every kid on the LS1 board. Great. I posted a negative opinion and I get my ass jumped which I was prepared for. I have seen it a million times over there. Someone says something they don't want to hear, they jump there ass. That is fine, Jerry Clayton, toughen up alittle, or buy stock in tissues. Fact, what is your business address I will ship you a box.

[lun40119]

This reply is for Joelster. You say that the reason you want the LTx stuff is because if is cheaper. I think you used a number as 3000bucks cheaper. Have you ever built an engine. Lets say you have 3000bucks to play with. Lets even say Dart sells it for 1500.00bucks. Now you have 1500 bucks to play with. Have all the necesary machinework done or at least checked by a good machine shop. You wanted to do a big inch small block, so now you need crank and rods, to clear. Your H-beams will clear with some grinding, but it would be better to get a set of rods that are clearanced for big inch stuff. Definately need a tiny base circle for a cam. You said something about AFR heads on a board here, would probably work well, but then we get to an intake. Do you plan to use the stocker, or the edelbrock. Or I guess you could convert it to a single plane, but you are going to be looking at spending a pretty good chunk of change.

You college kids arent' going to be spending the money to build aftermarket engines. Trust me just got done building a goodie for myself, all the good stuff.

So to sum it up, I am not saying that you guys are morons, or dumbies or anything of that nature, I just don't think it is worth it for a company like Dart to spend the time to get this all tooled up, and then have it flop when nobody buys it.

I think that there were a couple of 4.125 blocks floating around ebay for a while. How come noone has purchased those. Too much money???????

[jerry clayton]

Jake

The 4.125 blocks were sold for big bucks---you want to cry gen 1 and fi and carb and millions and LS-----if you don't like the LT engines go away---leave this to Dart and the possible customers----

The LT community is huge

The bebefits of an LT type engine is it looks and acts original

It isn't carbrd, it is FI so take those off your list of objections

You mention LS over and over--maybe you should be championing Dart to do a LS SHP block as GM won't be arount long

Gen 1 VS the LT---carbed vs FI----your reasons for objecting are reversed to reAlity

Your comments about college kids and no money or have you ever built an engine are off based and you know it

For all your reasons for Dart not to build an LT SHP, why don't you counter with your qualifications as to why not???? cost of material? casting procedures??? reprogramming of CNC equipment needed??? different shipping containers needed???emissions from foundries??? You have stated not ONE valid reason for a company not to go ahead with a project except for some personal feelings of questional source.

[lun40119]

Jerry,

These are exactly the rock throwing things that I really didn't care to get into. You seem to be the ring leader so I guess I will have to approach this a different way.

I really don't care if Dart builds an SHP block for the LT stuff or not. It is "my" opinion, that it isn't a great idea. I would just hate to see it flop. My comment about college kids and no money was taken directly from Joelsters post. They only 2 LT guys that I know are grown men, and have jobs.

The initial poll asked how interested a person would be, and to post comments. Here I am posting my comment, I apologize you didn't like it. I am not against fuel injection, I think you are really reading into this too much. I am a fan of ANYTHING that is quick. But it is still my opinion that it would be a bad idea to try to put this block into production right now. Especially with the current economic situation. Perhaps in 5 years or so when everyone has money again, and all the oem stuff is done blowed up.

[brougham]

just wondering what dart look at and take in to acount to build and develop a product to put in production. (eg amount of sales ,cost ,demand ) one thing that has to be taken in to acount is sales all over the world that dart sends all there parts to just australia alone thay sell a heap of parts and the ltx would not sell in australia . just some things to think about do yous wont a shp style block or little m style

[AdioSS]

Buddy Dwayne daily drives a LT1 powered Caprice that runs 11.9s at 4200lbs, and is still tame enough to take granny to the grocery store.

You must be talking about Dwayne Jennings. He doesn't seem to be a fan of this block either. I posted this thread to the Impala SS Forum and he was one of the few who posted negatively about it.

[lun40119]

You must be talking about Dwayne Jennings. He doesn't seem to be a fan of this block either. I posted this thread to the Impala SS Forum and he was one of the few who posted negatively about it.

Dwayne and I have talked several times about this block, he doesn't speak negatively about the block, he just thinks it won't sell. I agree. For every 10 people that come here kicking and screaming that they would buy one tomorrow, you might have one guy think about it.

Alot of times guys here what they want to hear, but let me say it more clear. IT ISN'T A DUMB IDEA, IT JUST WON'T SELL!!!!!!! IMO of course I could be wrong, I am just a nobody from WI.

[lun40119]

You must be talking about Dwayne Jennings. He doesn't seem to be a fan of this block either. I posted this thread to the Impala SS Forum and he was one of the few who posted negatively about it.

Well this post really got my wheels turning. I have spent half the morning getting this together. I am at work so it took a lil while. ;D

I have been on the Impalass forum for a while now, I actually bought a 1968 Impala from Norm off that board for my wife. So anyway I went over there to fine this negative posting by DJ.

96capriceMGR Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New London, WI USA
Posts: 7,010




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So am I the only one that thinks this is funny seeing as much of the LTx community thinks they need gen 1 heads and intake converted and to get rid of the the opti. Then they want a gen 2 block .

For all the "LT1" hardware everyone wants to throw away why not just go with the gen 1 block and not have to convert the heads, not have to figure out a way to delete the opti.

I am NOT saying this is a bad thing. I just find it funny that the same guys who throw away a bunch of LT1 stuff want something like this.

I also predict a lot of people saying they want it and FEW very very FEW buying it. Happened just last year with the T56 scatter sheild.
__________________
Dwayne Jennings
11.935, heads and cam street car
95 Roady wagon 220+K mile mod

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Last edited by 96capriceMGR : 04-17-2009 at 08:43 AM.

96capriceMGR Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New London, WI USA
Posts: 7,010




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You only read half of what I said. I said the community is full of people who swear they need gen 1 heads and intake converted and to get rid of the opti. At that point what is left of the "LT1"?
__________________
Dwayne Jennings
11.935, heads and cam street car
95 Roady wagon 220+K mile mod

04-19-2009, 07:44 PM
96capriceMGR Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New London, WI USA
Posts: 7,010




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done, you are making my point for me.
__________________
Dwayne Jennings
11.935, heads and cam street car
95 Roady wagon 220+K mile mod

So anyway I am still trying to fine the negative and I cannot find it. So my point is, Mr Jerry Clayton is quick to throw the rocks and talk about feelings being hurt and getting belittled. When I am just stating my opinion. You guys only hear what you want to hear and that is fine, like in this case. You heard that DJ said something negative about the idea of a 4.125 LT block from Dart when he did in fact, say nothing of the sort.

[rickreeves1]

I'm in. I havent stroked my LT1 yet. When can I get one of these? :D

[jakesz28]

I have to say the market is not huge and there are a lot of options out there. I wish I had ditched the LT1 block on the last combo at times. But if this was availble I would still buy one. Some of the people running an LT1 could have easily swapped out to a first gen motor or the LSx motor. But I kept it because I was tired of everyone telling me to swap it out for the LS motor, that all the LT1's were slow. I just wanted to prove it could be done. Yes mine has a singleplane and also a crank trigger.

[Puck]

You must be talking about Dwayne Jennings. He doesn't seem to be a fan of this block either. I posted this thread to the Impala SS Forum and he was one of the few who posted negatively about it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, and he def knows what he is talking about - we agree more often then not...but he is not really a fan of anything aftermarket. He tends to jump pretty harshly on anyone who mentions aftermarket intakes, cranks, oil pumps, heads, opti etc and questions their use :).

[Puck]

This reply is for Joelster. You say that the reason you want the LTx stuff is because if is cheaper. I think you used a number as 3000bucks cheaper. Have you ever built an engine. Lets say you have 3000bucks to play with. Lets even say Dart sells it for 1500.00bucks. Now you have 1500 bucks to play with. Have all the necesary machinework done or at least checked by a good machine shop. You wanted to do a big inch small block, so now you need crank and rods, to clear. Your H-beams will clear with some grinding, but it would be better to get a set of rods that are clearanced for big inch stuff. Definately need a tiny base circle for a cam. You said something about AFR heads on a board here, would probably work well, but then we get to an intake. Do you plan to use the stocker, or the edelbrock. Or I guess you could convert it to a single plane, but you are going to be looking at spending a pretty good chunk of change.

You college kids arent' going to be spending the money to build aftermarket engines. Trust me just got done building a goodie for myself, all the good stuff.

So to sum it up, I am not saying that you guys are morons, or dumbies or anything of that nature, I just don't think it is worth it for a company like Dart to spend the time to get this all tooled up, and then have it flop when nobody buys it.

I think that there were a couple of 4.125 blocks floating around ebay for a while. How come noone has purchased those. Too much money???????
Slightly offensive :confused:. These are not some random kids from the Tech who don't even own cars that are posting, these people have built engines before and know the ropes, no matter what their age.

I don't know what college has to do with it anyway, does that have to do with the stereotype "college budget"? I finished two LT1 builds while in college, first was mid 12s on boltons but the second one ran 11's all motor consistantly. Maybe if I did not spend so much on liquor it would have went quicker?(Well, actually...:o) I drove it to and from work and school, and put 10k miles on it in a year and a half. I see no reason to generalize that an LT1 owner, college or not, will not be willing to spend money on aftermarket parts :confused:. We already have for all these years, why would we stop now??? I could have easily done a t56 + H/C LS1 swap and raced dynos all day with how much I have into just my current engine. I knowingly chose not to - Why? Because I like the LT1.

Is it expensive? Of course, but you gotta pay to play. A big enough fan of the hobby will find a way to do it, even if it means having to save longer for parts before buying. LT1 owners are STUBBORN and will find a way - if they werent then they would not still be running LT1s, we would all have dime-a-dozen Magic Stick cam'd LS1s :).

Make this block and people WILL buy it.

[lun40119]

Puck..............read the first 5 words of that post please. This time without the blinders on. This is for at least the 3rd or 4th time. It isn't anything personal against the LT1 people. Fact, Jim and I were just talking about putting an LT1 in my wife's impala. I am just taking an open-minded look at the BIG picture.

Trust me I know how to work on a budget. When I was 16 I took a Sun recon 454 shortblock, yep two bolt, cast 3/8 rods, and cast pistons and cast crank, put a big solid cam in it with a stock set of oval port heads, a Victor and a 850 Holley and ran 10.8's. Sure it was in my Dads car, but I built that engine, and to this day I am still proud to say I ran it my Jr and Sr years of highschool bracket racing 3 times a week all summer long. I freshened it up myself twice.

Now I am 28 and by no means making a million bucks, but I do spend my money wisely when it comes to engine building.

No need to be offended puck, unless you like to be offended, in that case, your up.:D

[lun40119]

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, and he def knows what he is talking about - we agree more often then not...but he is not really a fan of anything aftermarket. He tends to jump pretty harshly on anyone who mentions aftermarket intakes, cranks, oil pumps, heads, opti etc and questions their use :).

This is another prime example of hearing only what you want to. DJ is a fan of quality aftermarket pieces. TRUST ME, have had the conversation with him about that a million times. You guys need to listen more with the ears, instead of the mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jerry clayton]

Jake

Somewhere I read that your in Madison?????Want to come down to Byron Saturday and meet?? we will be there with the Windy City Cobra club----

[lun40119]

Jerry, I am in Appleton WI, it is about 2.5 hrs north east of Madison just south of Green Bay. I have my machine work done near Madison, and that is also where we dyno our stuff.

Just so you know Jerry, I am married and really not into internet dating.........:)

[jerry clayton]

OK then---I'll give the undercover cops the day off, I thought that maybe if you were in Madison----

[lun40119]

WTF does that mean???????? Dude you are starting to wierd me out!!!!!

[camrat68]

Starting....?!?!?:rolleyes:

Anyway, I disagree with Jake on whether or not these will sell but I do agree with him on whether or not these will sell enough to be profitable for Dart.

With that said, I also have two 95 Caprice's that I play with along with my FI 502 Dart-headed 68 Camaro. So yes, I would be interested as long as Dart could bring it in for within $700 of the SHP block's current price.


Jim

[jerry clayton]

sorry Jake, but you said internet dating first---so then you are close to Kikauna dragstrip???? haven't been there for years----still have that rough diagonal bump where they tunneled under it???

Last time we were there my car slid threw the traps 3/4 backwards and stayed in its lane qualifying 3rd--parachute was over the hood scoop

[lun40119]

Yeah that bump is a pain in the rear, it is Kaukauna. Thats about 10 miles for me. The quicker stuff really has a hard time with that bump.

Anyway we will be down in Madison for the start of the power tour this year. We plan on long hauling 2 cars this year. Take care fella......

[AdioSS]

maybe when I used the word "negatively" I used the wrong word? His posts sure weren't positive.

You guys are probably right that a Dart SHP LT1 block might not sell as well as we expect, but it would be nice to have the option other than sending Jeff Green a much larger check for a converted Donvan aluminum block or possibly resleeving all 8 holes on an LT1 block.

[joelster]

This reply is for Joelster. You say that the reason you want the LTx stuff is because if is cheaper. I think you used a number as 3000bucks cheaper.
I meant the cars are roughly $3000 cheaper. Go take a look. You can find LT1 cars all day long for $2500-$5000. You will be getting a roach of an LS1 car for $5000. Most good examples are $8000-$15,000+ (2002's low miles)
Have you ever built an engine.
Yes, several.
Lets say you have 3000bucks to play with. Lets even say Dart sells it for 1500.00bucks. Now you have 1500 bucks to play with.
Anyone who thinks they can build an entire motor with ALL aftermarket pieces for $3000 is snorting crack. I never stated this.
Have all the necesary machinework done or at least checked by a good machine shop. You wanted to do a big inch small block, so now you need crank and rods, to clear. Your H-beams will clear with some grinding, but it would be better to get a set of rods that are clearanced for big inch stuff.
Wrong. The SHP block is already clearanced for a 3.875" crank.
Definately need a tiny base circle for a cam.
Wrong again. I am not talking a max-cube block, just something in the low 400's. You said something about AFR heads on a board here, would probably work well, but then we get to an intake.
Wrong. AFR heads LT1/LT4 have LT bolt patterns.
Do you plan to use the stocker, or the edelbrock.
I have a converted single plane, so I guess I will go with that.
Or I guess you could convert it to a single plane, but you are going to be looking at spending a pretty good chunk of change.
Wrong. Pro-Products Super Hurricane, cost $250ish , mocked it up in my friends jig, re-drilled holes (free), ground down water neck with grinder (free), welded in crossover passage (free), Edelbrock fuel rail $85ish. It is not needed either, I could have still ran the stock intake if I wanted to. The stock intake is fine for motors that do not live above 6500rpm. All you need are some fabricating skills and you can convert one yourself. It is not rocket science.

You college kids arent' going to be spending the money to build aftermarket engines. Trust me just got done building a goodie for myself, all the good stuff.
Top-shelf max-effort stuff, no. But a decent rebuild, yes.


So to sum it up, I am not saying that you guys are morons, or dumbies or anything of that nature, I just don't think it is worth it for a company like Dart to spend the time to get this all tooled up, and then have it flop when nobody buys it.
Again, you don't know the numbers. Maybe they only need to sell 300 of them to make a profit. I have no clue, neither do you.

I think that there were a couple of 4.125 blocks floating around ebay for a while. How come noone has purchased those. Too much money???????
The last one on ebay went for $3050ish. Then add a few hundred to ship. It did sell. Some guy in Houston bought it.

Just to clarify about good 'ol Dwayne Jennings. He doesn't like aftermarket stuff because he doesn't run aftermarket stuff. Basically if you don't carbon copy his recipe he thinks that you made a bad decision.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Wrong. The SHP block is already clearanced for a 3.875" crank.
.

WRONG The SHP block is clearanced for a 3.750 stroke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[joelster]

WRONG The SHP block is clearanced for a 3.750 stroke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I stand corrected.

I knew it was clearanced, somehow 3.875 was stuck in my head.

[brougham]

Interesting to know there are blocks being sold on the net and there has been the comment that money is not a problem so all that said who was the person on this forum that purchased the block or are we just jumping up and down for no reason

[joelster]

Interesting to know there are blocks being sold on the net and there has been the comment that money is not a problem so all that said who was the person on this forum that purchased the block or are we just jumping up and down for no reason

The GM Raceshop cast a bunch of big-cube "Bowtie" style LT1 blocks. The exact number is unconfirmed, but they all were in crates with serial numbers on them. The highest serial number I have seen was #015. They were in different bores too. The last one I saw had a 4.120" bore, and it was on ebay. The person who bought it was from Houston and he paid $3050 for it. They do pop up from time to time on ebay, but you will have to get out your wallet and dig. They also came in a smaller bore a 4.024" bore, but they all had the same part number 10128482.

Here's a fuzzy snapshot of the sticker from the crate of the one on ebay:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/bigjoelster/lt1race01.jpg

Here's a clearer pic of a smaller bore one:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/bigjoelster/lt1raceblock.jpg

Again, I don't know how many were made in total, your guess is as good as mine.

[lun40119]

I meant the cars are roughly $3000 cheaper. Go take a look. You can find LT1 cars all day long for $2500-$5000. You will be getting a roach of an LS1 car for $5000. Most good examples are $8000-$15,000+ (2002's low miles)

Yes, several.

Anyone who thinks they can build an entire motor with ALL aftermarket pieces for $3000 is snorting crack. I never stated this.

Wrong. The SHP block is already clearanced for a 3.875" crank.

Wrong again. I am not talking a max-cube block, just something in the low 400's.
Wrong. AFR heads LT1/LT4 have LT bolt patterns.

I have a converted single plane, so I guess I will go with that.

Wrong. Pro-Products Super Hurricane, cost $250ish , mocked it up in my friends jig, re-drilled holes (free), ground down water neck with grinder (free), welded in crossover passage (free), Edelbrock fuel rail $85ish. It is not needed either, I could have still ran the stock intake if I wanted to. The stock intake is fine for motors that do not live above 6500rpm. All you need are some fabricating skills and you can convert one yourself. It is not rocket science.


Top-shelf max-effort stuff, no. But a decent rebuild, yes.



Again, you don't know the numbers. Maybe they only need to sell 300 of them to make a profit. I have no clue, neither do you.


The last one on ebay went for $3050ish. Then add a few hundred to ship. It did sell. Some guy in Houston bought it.

Just to clarify about good 'ol Dwayne Jennings. He doesn't like aftermarket stuff because he doesn't run aftermarket stuff. Basically if you don't carbon copy his recipe he thinks that you made a bad decision.


I don't give a hoot if the block is clearanced for a 10" stroke, it will have a standard cam location, and you will need a SBC cam. I JUST BUILT MY ENGINE WITH A SHP BLOCK. I used a .900 base with Lunati Rods. Read up, you will learn something. Have you met DJ, do you know him personally, have you ever seen his car. I have worked on it, I have had it in my shop, I have gotten schnockered up in my back yard around a camp fire with him, we have been sideways in his car, I have been there when it was dynoed. I would think that I know him, and what he thinks alittle better than you. But of course you are an internet guru from LS1 tech, and you have infected this board with your rock throwing childish crap, just like I hoped you wouldn't.

Either way, none of this nonsense is helping the original question posted. It is still my opinion that it would not be a wise thing to do. Yes it would be great, yes LT motors are fun, yes they make great power, doesn't change the fact that it is my uneducated opinion that it would be a poor decision. PLEASE, google something and change my mind.

[joelster]

I don't give a hoot if the block is clearanced for a 10" stroke, it will have a standard cam location, and you will need a SBC cam. I JUST BUILT MY ENGINE WITH A SHP BLOCK. I used a .900 base with Lunati Rods. Read up, you will learn something. Have you met DJ, do you know him personally, have you ever seen his car. I have worked on it, I have had it in my shop, I have gotten schnockered up in my back yard around a camp fire with him, we have been sideways in his car, I have been there when it was dynoed. I would think that I know him, and what he thinks alittle better than you.
He is HATED on lots of boards. Maybe he's cute and cuddly when you guys are next to each other making smores at a campfire.
But of course you are an internet guru from LS1 tech, and you have infected this board with your rock throwing childish crap, just like I hoped you wouldn't.
Rock throwing? Who threw some rocks? Not me, I just countered your points, and you got all upset about it. Guru from LS1tech? LMAO, I go weeks/months without even posting on there. Most of the time I am in the drag racing section and stay away from the LT1 section. You can only answer the same questions so many times before they get a little boring.

As for the sbc cam. It has more to do with what rods you run and what rod bolts you run as well, you know this. You chose a Lunati rod. Irregardless, how much was the sbc cam? $300? $400? If you were to build a new big-cube motor, you'd probably be buying a new cam anyways right? So it's not like it's an added expense.

Either way, none of this nonsense is helping the original question posted. It is still my opinion that it would not be a wise thing to do. Yes it would be great, yes LT motors are fun, yes they make great power, doesn't change the fact that it is my uneducated opinion that it would be a poor decision. PLEASE, google something and change my mind.
Yep, your opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. Check the score though, it's 73 to 3.

[joelster]

Any new news from the Dart guys on this?

[Dart Vader]

I can offer a bit of news on the subject...

We have reviewed some statistics and numbers, and we have considered the responses we have recieved from many sources, including those posted here and recieved by e-mail through the website.

After considering all these factors, we have decided to produce this block.
The block is going into development now, pricing will be in line with the pricing on our other SHP Chevy and Ford small blocks.

More news to come, keep an eye out...

[jerry clayton]

Yes, new news---I have just spent some time talking to Richard Manskin about the LT shp block---won't go into all the details---but-----are you sitting down?????He just had Tony call Corey to tell us that they will go ahead with the project and we will have blocks in 6 to 8 weeks-------

Thanks to every one at Dart for giving us this opertunity to discuss this on there board and for the outcome.

More later


Jerry Clayton

[CLAYTONRACING]

Yep We just ordered up a pallet of blocks to begin with, so now the wait begins......Thanks to everybody for making this happen.

[roadtrip120]

SWEET



I will be buying one out of the first batch.



Thanks for producing it for us


Brady

[joelster]

AWESOME!!!!!!!!

Ok, now a few questions that keep popping up on the boards...

1. How big can we make this? I know it is clearanced for a 3.75" stroke. I know it is possible to clearance it more, because I have seen pics. Is a 4" stroke feasible with this LT1 SHP block?

2. How big can the bore safely go and leave room for necessary strength?

3. Just a little question that I have been pondering.......how much does this block weigh? A stock LT1 block weigh?

[jerry clayton]

The weight is one of the good things about the SHP blocks---they are nearly 30 lbs lighter than the race block.
We stock 3.875 stroke Callies crank and rods as with a stock deck ht and cam location squeezing anything more gets touchy---
According to the numbers they put out wall thickness at 4.200 bore would be over
.200 thick ( they use 4.165 bore/.230 minimun wall)

[96WS6]

YESSSSS!!! Thanks Dart!!:cool:

[joelster]

Ok, so a 4.200" bore with a 3.875" stroke yields 429.49 cubic inches or 7.0 liters. With plenty of strength. Sounds great to me! .

[AdioSS]

that's not much room between the cylinders. 4.185" is usually the max recommended bore size on a 400-style block.

[fuel]

ill be wanting to build a 427. 8 weeks gives me a little time to try to save some money

[roadtrip120]

Any updates Dart????



How is the process going??


How is the time line , still on schedule for mid July???

[Dart Vader]

Things are on schedule, but I don't have any specs or dates to give you just yet. Soon hopefully.

[Twisted Z]

MMMMM....

Going to work great with my freshly converted 18 degree heads!!

Working on Jimmy to get one instead of going LSx :D

[DARTZZILLA]

EVEN AN LT-X IRON EAGLE W/A 4.200 BORE W/A SET OF YOUR NEW LT-1 9degree HEADS WOULD GO SO WELL IN MY 95 BIRD:D
I COULD SELL SO MANY OF THOSE COMBOS

[97 6speed z]

Okay ..... it's now been just about a month since the last post on this thread ..... anything new to report?:)

[Dart Vader]

Currently we are evaluating re-tooling costs for the project, so we don't have any specific dates.

[kgkern01]

Now with this being a 2-piece main block, i assume that means using an LT1 oil pan would be out of the question? That would probably be an issue with anyone building one in 93-97 Fbody or 92-96 Vette, as there are not a lot of oil pans that fit with the stock k-member and long-tube headers on these cars. Especially road race style pans made for cornering.

A flywheel change is not as big of an issue as there are 2-peice main flywheels that will work with the T56 though.

[kgkern01]

Currently we are evaluating re-tooling costs for the project, so we don't have any specific dates.

Does this mean that the block is definitely still on, or is it being reconsidered?