[lun40119]

Originally Posted by Awesome Bill

All that chalk stuff, lines on the floor, measure this and that is not even needed on a car that is already built. We just stuffed a 535ci Torque Monster in a back half 80 Camaro car with ladder bars 1 ft longer than I normally used last Friday. We put it on the front end rack stuck the driver in the car, checked the toe and gave it 3 flats of preload. No sway bars, anti roll bars, instant center, ftb-ratio nothing. Went to the track and run a 8.92@151 with 32° timing and shifting @ 6600 rpm and went threw the trap @ 7200rpm. Converter has 20% slippage. CAR WENT STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW! Point is, what is the car doing @ the track? then counter that for going straight! Thats all you need. If you apply more power even after the car has been scaled, then you have to reset the chassia for torque steer. Anti roll bars do fix this when power adders are used. But every time you make more power, then you have to adjust for it! So learn how to tune your car!

A good chassis board is needed, but you would need someone who can first tune a chassis and knows what he is doing as the moderator or you will have the biggest MESSED up I did this or that CHASSIS board going. First get a moderator to answer the very easy questions, then you have a place people who do not know what to do to go to!

So what did this car weigh????? I am trying to get this car to work at full wieght, 3520 with me, with a stock length, non tubbed, gm style 4 bar on a 10.5 tire. There is work to be had. Checked some receipts and this thing only has a 4.10 in it. I put a 4.56 in the 12 bolt that I broke, so I ordered this Strange Dana, apparently I ordered it with a 4.10. This problem in the first 60' is going to get worse with a 5.13 in it.............I need to get a handle on it, or practice my excuses when the 4-bangers drive by..................

Crap man, anyone can get a car to hook and run straight, when there is an 18" tire under it.........

[want-a-be]

Jake,

When you get those measurments let me know. We can get a direction from the information you gather. You can't manage what you can, or haven't, measured.

If anyone else needs some help speak up or for ever hold your peace...lol.

Later bud, Don

[lun40119]

I will soon as I get the talon out of the shop.............need the room on the floor. Finishing up the 327 for my little bro tonight. Talk to you soon.

[Kemper007]

I would have the same problem with my car when I had the extension on the shocks to loose, causing the tire to hit to hard and create a bounce. Stiffing up the extension on the shock helped my situation. But you are hitting the tires with a lot more power than i am and with a brake. Heres a little acticle I found years ago that has always worked for all my stock retaining suspension cars. Hope it helps. Oh yeah I love the way your car sounds coming out of the box!
Note: that loose can mean either extension or compression.

What to watch for...

There is a standard progression of events that occur as a doorslammer launches. Watching each of these events and at what point in time they occur gives you the clues you need to dial in your suspension. The key is to making these events all happen at the right "time" is your shock valving controls.

Mike Canter of Outlaw Pro-Mod fame had this jewel of a post post years ago that I saved where he detailed the following sequence that you should watch for:

"This should be the sequence of events seen on the video. Right at launch the front should start to come up before any forward movement or the car.

The rear of the car with this added weight transferred from the rising front will lift very little but it should not go down (squat). An inch or two is normal and can be best seen by looking at the relationship between the top of the slicks and the rear fender lip.

This one or two inches of rise will indicate that the rear of the car is lifting and pushing harder on the tires while the front weight is being transferred (for every motion there is an equal and opposite motion).

If the front of the car does not rise first then the front shocks are too stiff or the rear shocks are not stiff enough.

If the rear of the car squats right away then the rear shocks are too loose.

I have found through slow motion video tape that if the rear shocks are too loose the rear tire actually bounces on the initial hit and will break loose almost right away. I stood next to the car pointing the camera right at the rear tire. It was amazing to watch. I kept on tightening the rear shocks until it stopped which was just below mid point of the adjustment. From all that I have seen the rear shocks should never be adjusted less that half way because of rear squat and tire bounce."

[lun40119]

Thanks for the read fella, I think a good place for me to start is with a set of double adjustable shocks in the front and rear. My car is so stiff it doesn't really allow for a good weight transfer. Thanks again for the information.

[Nova67ss]

Chassie talk is a good talk, lots to learn and U go faster without more HP.

[want-a-be]

Alot of people can build an engine,....getting it down the track effeciently can be another story.

Don

[Awesome Bill]

Don, once the car has been professionally built, then it leaves the shop and goes to the end user and he puts all his stuff into the car and brings it back and then its scaled? Really come on! You can only really move about maxx 50lbs of spring weight around without upsetting both ends of the car, the ladder bar mounts, or 4 link bars are installed and the ic comes in where ever the builder says it does and then there is 3-6 holes to play with. Then the builder says you have to scale it and never ask anything about what power the application will handle! Yeah thats really scary.

Anti roll bars make it easier than ever to have a tuned chassis. So once the car is built and welded you really can only do so much. To scale a car once it is complete will do little to nothing! Because of the 50+ professionally cars that I have set up after they come from a $500.00 to $2500.00 scale job that was done and don't go straight tells me they should really tune the chassis for the power and application @ the track is the only way to do it. I have seen brand new cars from the chassis builder never even come close to a clean pass and so have you, WHY? Becuase they don't know what they are doing for the application @ the track and power used that day.

A properly built chassis, "all welds, bars, shocks, 4 link, ladder bar, bar placements etc" once installed, the cars basic ability to handle power is very limited and turing a shock position or moving common spring weight around is only good for low HP engines. Put a 400 shot of NOS or a blower on your freshly scaled drag car and watch it run itself right into the wall with the steering wheel turned hard to the left.

I seen a brand new Tim MaGainess scaled Car with a 3000hp + blower engine drive to the left every time the owner run the car. I told The owner to step the power up and he told me the chassis was scaled and could not be messed with. He Called Tim and tells him his car won't go straight. Tim tells him to quit being a pussycat and give it some power! Very few I have told that to understands what Tim told him!

The back wheels drive the car when a lot of power is applied. I have personally seen cars crossing the finish line with the front wheels off the track! The little front tires can only do so much.

So if your talking basic drag racing cars with under 700hp, any chassis will handle that and most likely you will wind up breaking the left axle and once broken you will say" wonder why it done that" and the car will go dead straight. Power up the car and then tell me what it does.

Bar placement, anti roll bars and power all have to be adjusted @ the track for the power used that day. Once the basic chassis tuning, not a scale rip off job, is done, the customer can make small tunning adjustments for 25-50-100hp changes and the car will be dead straight every time. Getting the car there is the problem. Use a 100shot of NOS and the car goes straight, Use a 250shot of NOS and the car turns so fast right the driver usually has to abort.

So what your suggesting is that once scaled always scaled! If you believe that your not as sharp as I thought. You have to counter engine torque steer to the drive train torque steer with the proper preload if needed for the power used @ that day. I don't care what the 4 bathroom scales says and what weight is on the static car. It means little to nothing on race car sitting still. When the day of the race and tons of power is applied, thats when you know your scale job was useless. The left or right direction and how severe it is determines what is needed to be applied on the day of the race. Unless ofcourse you drive into oil!

There are some many other areas of chassis tuning once on race day that have to be factored in when the power is applied, that everyone gets lost and don't know what to do when the car does not go straight. Frontal lift messes with the chassis, gear ratios have huge bearings on preload and torque converters will change a cars ability to run straight. Most people don't even think of that. So when you hollar you have to scale your car and thats the key, I hate to say it but your badly confused!

Go ahead and post any question or response you like, I will be ready!

[want-a-be]

Bill,

I really don't have the time to answer all your post, nor go through this whole thread and read my comments.

I agree with what your saying. But I don't think I have said anything about 4 corner weights, any wheight of the car, or trying to move 50 pounds around.

I'm not sure where that came from.

Don

[want-a-be]

Did a quick scan of my posts and didn't see anywhere that I was asking about weight. Jakes weight is what it is. He can only do so much with it. But the ic of his 4 bar system has some adjustment to it. He should be able to adjust around on it for a better acting car. But before he moves anything he needs to know where the ic is. Hence the chalk on the floor.... It's a good cheap way to find out where you are actually at.

Sure,..I could help Jake out better if I were at the track with him,...but he is about 10 hours North of me. Not going to happen unless he drives down here, or I'm in his neck of the woods.

The funny thing about engine builders is,...not all of them know how to tune the chassis to get their hp down the track properly. I, and a few others around here, would like to think I can tune both.

Not implying that you can't Bill. I'm just saying what I've seen.