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Old 07-09-2009, 10:36 AM   #1
upsidedown
 
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Default Parts Manufacturers In Platinum Package

Can anyone tell me which brand of valves, springs etc are used in the platinum series of sbc heads when purchased as a package from Dart. What parts quality would I be getting for my money. Thanks.
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:49 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by upsidedown View Post
Can anyone tell me which brand of valves, springs etc are used in the platinum series of sbc heads when purchased as a package from Dart. What parts quality would I be getting for my money. Thanks.
Dart uses a descent valve, for an all out roller max hp application use Ferrea valves, I wish Dart would switch to Ferrea and raise the price a bit or offer it as an upgrade

The springs again are ok for a mild application, almost not enough spring for a bracket roller engine but good for a street/strip type roller engine

I dont like any rocker studs that come on heads as i like to find the correct shank length needed for my given combo and order those studs, Guideplates are good, Seal are good

Dart Platinum heads do have back cut valves so even if you go with another valve you may want to see if Dart will tell you the back cut angles or buy two valves so your machine shop can order Ferrea/Manley valves with the correct back cut for the platinum heads

They are great heads and in my opinion are hard to beat, A friend did a clean up port on a set of 200cc platinum heads and got some GREAT flow numbers, Better than what Dart initially said the platinums flowed when they were coming out few years back
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:35 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply. I agree with what you say about the valves and springs. I suspected that the as supplied valves and springs would be ok but not in the same league as Ferrea and a good spring for a race roller. Pity they don't offer this as an upgrade.
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Old 07-16-2009, 05:33 PM   #4
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Actually our valves use the same grade alloy that super duty valves use. And the valve design certainly isn't a problem.

I will try to dig up some alloy info on them, the guy who keeps our part specs is out of the office today. Once you have some alloy information to look over, go ahead and compare it to whoever you like.

I'll get some info on our springs too, they are very good components.
Believe me, we don't send out average quality assemblies with our parts. We send out parts that are meant to be used in highly competitive racing engines.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:03 AM   #5
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Actually our valves use the same grade alloy that super duty valves use. And the valve design certainly isn't a problem.

I will try to dig up some alloy info on them, the guy who keeps our part specs is out of the office today. Once you have some alloy information to look over, go ahead and compare it to whoever you like.

I'll get some info on our springs too, they are very good components.
Believe me, we don't send out average quality assemblies with our parts. We send out parts that are meant to be used in highly competitive racing engines.
1) Valves........

Small block valves are 21-4N, How is that the same as a Severe Duty or Ferrea Comp Plus?

That valve is like the Manley Race Flo which is a step above Race Master.

At one time Dart was buying valves from Manley, Correct?

2) Springs........

Nothing wrong with the quality of the springs but let me ask this,, The roller springs for small block are 195-200 seat pressure.

Who uses seat pressure of 195-200 on a roller? I have seen rollers of todays designs float the valves at 230-240 pounds of seat pressure with a 11/32" valve

Ideal seat pressure on most small block rollers is no less than 250 to 300 pounds with the weight on a 11/32" valve, High rpm (7500-8500rpm) such as 8000rpm etc i would use 300-350 with the weight of the valves so doesnt this make the Dart springs not ideal for a race engine with a roller?

Again nothing wrong with the quality of that spring, its just barely enough spring for a 25 year old roller but is a good spring

The flat tappet springs are good for a solid cam, the 1.437"

3) Seals........

Excellent part

4) Guides........

Excellent part

5) Guide plates........

Excellent

6) Rocker studs........

Most of the time with a roller cam to get the proper wear pattern on the valve the rocker arms end up sitting on the threads of the rocker stud, this is wrong. The rocker should be located on the shank so now you have to buy rocker studs with the proper shank on them

This is why ARP lists at least 6-8 different shank lengths for small block, So now people pay for studs that most likely wont work in most cases (all that i have seen except for flat tappet cams with shorter valve lengths)
..
I think Dart makes the best cylinder head out there, I will continue to use Dart, I have a set of Pro 1 Platinum sitting here for a 383 and i dont expect to change. Dart heads perform excellent and are reliable with good customer service but i dont like paying for studs/springs/retainers/locks when i buy a complete heads and have to change them so i buy Dart bare and i will continue to buy Dart bare

Every machine shop i know of buys Dart bare, The number of bare heads whole salers carry is unreal, They carry more bare heads than assembled. There is a reason for this
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If you want to add "FREE WILLY" to your sig, that is our boycott of "not so awesome Bill" if not that is cool. But if you want to go ahead.

I did get the mass email that went out about bill cannon and how his shit blew up, and never made the power that was claimed.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:14 AM   #6
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Yea thanks for that. It seems about what I expected for the price but to be fair they have to compete on price with other manufacturers which is no problem as long as you know what you are paying for which is good parts but not top quality. Probably work quite ok for some applications but if they fail the money you spend on the fix can be more than the good parts in the first place. Like most head manufacturers that sell complete packages they'll list a roller spring with no info on pressures, a valve with no info on their quality etc. and tell you that's what you need. And what does 21-4N mean anyway. Sure it's a good material but what about the manufacturing processes that go into making the valve. I can find plenty of valves made from that material but how does that compare with what I would say is an industry standard quality Manley severe duty or Ferrea Comp Plus. As suggested the bare head looks the way to go and then build yourself.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:11 PM   #7
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This is why I usually like to buy castings and the supporting equipment ssepperate. I can get what I want.

But they have to be able to compete with pricing. It depends on how hard you are expecting to run this thing.

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Old 07-19-2009, 04:37 AM   #8
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Yea thanks for that. It seems about what I expected for the price but to be fair they have to compete on price with other manufacturers which is no problem as long as you know what you are paying for which is good parts but not top quality. Probably work quite ok for some applications but if they fail the money you spend on the fix can be more than the good parts in the first place. Like most head manufacturers that sell complete packages they'll list a roller spring with no info on pressures, a valve with no info on their quality etc. and tell you that's what you need. And what does 21-4N mean anyway. Sure it's a good material but what about the manufacturing processes that go into making the valve. I can find plenty of valves made from that material but how does that compare with what I would say is an industry standard quality Manley severe duty or Ferrea Comp Plus. As suggested the bare head looks the way to go and then build yourself.
You know a 600hp roller 406/421 assembled heads with a easy roller lobe would be great BUT a 600hp 355 turning 8000rpm you need aggressive lobes and Ferrea valves, PAC/Manley springs etc
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Originally Posted by lun40119
If you want to add "FREE WILLY" to your sig, that is our boycott of "not so awesome Bill" if not that is cool. But if you want to go ahead.

I did get the mass email that went out about bill cannon and how his shit blew up, and never made the power that was claimed.
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:42 PM   #9
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I'm not falling for the Ferrea valve love fest you have going there Butch, so I'm going to give you guys a bit of info from the inside...
We buy our valves built to our specifications, using the same materials as the other top brand valves are made of.This would be a 214N material for the exhaust valves and a 4CR9SI2 material for the intake valves. Manley purchases their valve blanks from the same place that makes them for Dart, so you are getting the same parts. However we specify a lot of different things when our main head designer, Tony, does his development work that improves the flow and the performance of the valve and head combination. There is a lot of effort put into the valve design, back cut is standard, and we raised the back portion of the valve from the flatter 10 angle that Manley supplies to a 12 angle on ours, this changes some things when the head is flow tested, the Manley valves hurt the heads approximately 10 cfm. We spent a lot of time on surface finish of the valve relative to the surface finish on the guides. We are offering an exceptional part, at a great price, and supplying the customer with features and benefits he would not get normally. We use the same materials in a valve that is 4.915 long and 1.94 in diameter with a 1.250 single spring as we use with a 6.600 long 2.400 headed valve with a 1.650 triple spring, so there is no quality variances with ours, we only give you the best choice.

On springs... We offer basically 3 standard small block springs to cover a broad application and we also offer pacaloy spring upgrades. But there are thousands of different cams out there - if your cam needs a spring beyond what we carry in stock, custom springs can be ordered or buy the heads bare or complete, minus the springs. We get our springs from PSI, PAC and Associated. those are really the only places making springs now. Saying Manley, Comp, K-Motion etc. is saying that you are buying a reboxed part - it is not accurate to say that you are getting a better part.

Last edited by malihoochie; 07-23-2009 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malihoochie View Post
I'm not falling for the Ferrea valve love fest you have going there Butch, so I'm going to give you guys a bit of info from the inside...
We buy our valves built to our specifications, using the same materials as the other top brand valves are made of.This would be a 214N material for the exhaust valves and a 4CR9SI2 material for the intake valves. Manley purchases their valve blanks from the same place that makes them for Dart, so you are getting the same parts. However we specify a lot of different things when our main head designer, Tony, does his development work that improves the flow and the performance of the valve and head combination. There is a lot of effort put into the valve design, back cut is standard, and we raised the back portion of the valve from the flatter 10 angle that Manley supplies to a 12 angle on ours, this changes some things when the head is flow tested, the Manley valves hurt the heads approximately 10 cfm. We spent a lot of time on surface finish of the valve relative to the surface finish on the guides. We are offering an exceptional part, at a great price, and supplying the customer with features and benefits he would not get normally. We use the same materials in a valve that is 4.915 long and 1.94 in diameter with a 1.250 single spring as we use with a 6.600 long 2.400 headed valve with a 1.650 triple spring, so there is no quality variances with ours, we only give you the best choice.

On springs... We offer basically 3 standard small block springs to cover a broad application and we also offer pacaloy spring upgrades. But there are thousands of different cams out there - if your cam needs a spring beyond what we carry in stock, custom springs can be ordered or buy the heads bare or complete, minus the springs. We get our springs from PSI, PAC and Associated. those are really the only places making springs now. Saying Manley, Comp, K-Motion etc. is saying that you are buying a reboxed part - it is not accurate to say that you are getting a better part.
I am running REV valves in mine right now. I would be interested in verifying this, this upcoming winter when the heads come off. Can I get 2 valves from Dart???? Lemme know........
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