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Old 10-06-2010, 05:45 AM   #1
the69novaguy
 
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Default ARP main studs for chevy shp block?

Hey just wondering if anyone has installed ARP main studs in a chevy shp block, I would like to use a moroso windage tray. Will ARP sbc 400 2 bolt main studs work, part # 134-5501. Thanks.

Last edited by the69novaguy; 10-06-2010 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:46 AM   #2
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No, I ran into this when I did mine. I wanted to run a stud mounted tray. You have to use the small journal (early 327) studs. And the smaller threaded area isn't long enough for a 3.75 or larger crank throw.

The reason it won't work is the caps were too short on the shp block. I ran out of thread. Check with CNC Carl for the part number on the small journal studs without the tray provision, and get yourself a good pan with a tray built in it.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:32 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by the69novaguy View Post
Hey just wondering if anyone has installed ARP main studs in a chevy shp block, I would like to use a moroso windage tray. Will ARP sbc 400 2 bolt main studs work, part # 134-5501. Thanks.
The SHP blocks are for 350 mains 2.450" not the 2.650 400 main. You could use them with washers but not advised. You don't need main studs with these blocks. Get a good oil pan and don't worry about and windage tray, they are junk!
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by the69novaguy View Post
Hey just wondering if anyone has installed ARP main studs in a chevy shp block, I would like to use a moroso windage tray. Will ARP sbc 400 2 bolt main studs work, part # 134-5501. Thanks.
The ARP stud kit we use is the 134-5402 abd we have sold well over a 100 of those blocks and I would have to say about 90% of them guys wanted a stud kit added to there new block.

A stud does not add strenth to the cap but it has more clamping force compared to a bolt, A stud has a fine tread on the top which offers a more mechanical advatage over a bolt.

Also when adding studs we do finish the main line off to 2.6415

Most guys don't like adding studs because they can't line hone or don't want to line hone!!!!

We have used pans before with studed windage trays for years with no problems and GM uses them so there really not junk.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by the69novaguy View Post
Hey just wondering if anyone has installed ARP main studs in a chevy shp block, I would like to use a moroso windage tray. Will ARP sbc 400 2 bolt main studs work, part # 134-5501. Thanks.
Hmm... Interesting points from all parties. Will the studs for the windage tray be long enough to clear a 3.875 stroke crank? I'm using Scat stroker I-beams, 6" with 7/16" cap screws. I was planning to use a Moroso windage tray. I've always have been a firm believer in main and head studs. More clamping force, I totally agree with.

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Old 10-09-2010, 09:49 AM   #6
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I already answered that. Trust me, I tried. Talked to ARP. It will not clear. Buy a good pan with a tray in it.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:50 AM   #7
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The ARP stud kit we use is the 134-5402 abd we have sold well over a 100 of those blocks and I would have to say about 90% of them guys wanted a stud kit added to there new block.

A stud does not add strenth to the cap but it has more clamping force compared to a bolt, A stud has a fine tread on the top which offers a more mechanical advatage over a bolt.

Also when adding studs we do finish the main line off to 2.6415

Most guys don't like adding studs because they can't line hone or don't want to line hone!!!!

We have used pans before with studed windage trays for years with no problems and GM uses them so there really not junk.
Wow, buy a brand new spec out block from DART, the leading block manufacture in the world and change up something that they have already figured out and are smarter than most just because some says, "hey i need main studs". Its is a proven fact that the bolts are just as strong and even stronger than studs because there are more thread contact and only one set of threads to stretch the bolt evenly as opposed to the stud which we all know always moves further down and sometimes bottoms out. The studs can and do bottom out in block on the register and also can cause it to crack? Some people just don't know how to make sure everything is lubed nicely and even when you do, they seem to always get that extra little turn @ the end of the torque, so that does not happen. DARTS bolts are the best in the industry and you won't have a failure. Unless ofcourse, something is a defect and that can be had in ARP main studs also. So If you want to spend another $250.00 for studs and a new aline hone a perfectly good block, go ahead and install them but you won't be doing yourself a favor or even any good.

As far as windage trays, they have been deemed junk over 15 years ago. They do fracture all the time, and actually the tray keeps oil from getting back to the sump and causes it to get picked back up. Every engine builder in the world knows this. Screens are even worse. They hold the oil. A good baffle in the rear of the oil pan helps ton when you let off the button to keep the oil from climbing the crank and rods. Big open oil pans with oil partitioned sectional protection actually make power. As far as large strokes go in today's engines, we are not talking about a 3.000' or 3.250" or even 3.750" strokes, most now are 4.000" and larger. The pan keeps getting smaller.

Last edited by Awesome Bill; 10-09-2010 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:06 AM   #8
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O,K, fair enough. When you put it like that, that makes total sense. Old habits, this SHP block is a new deal for me, I'm used to making factory blocks live. I have no problem with buying a good pan, I just want to cover the basics. If you don't ask, you don't know, right? Thanks for all the input.
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Awesome Bill View Post
Wow, buy a brand new spec out block from DART, the leading block manufacture in the world and change up something that they have already figured out and are smarter than most just because some says, "hey i need main studs". Its is a proven fact that the bolts are just as strong and even stronger than studs because there are more thread contact and only one set of threads to stretch the bolt evenly as opposed to the stud which we all know always moves further down and sometimes bottoms out. The studs can and do bottom out in block on the register and also can cause it to crack? Some people just don't know how to make sure everything is lubed nicely and even when you do, they seem to always get that extra little turn @ the end of the torque, so that does not happen. DARTS bolts are the best in the industry and you won't have a failure. Unless ofcourse, something is a defect and that can be had in ARP main studs also. So If you want to spend another $250.00 for studs and a new aline hone a perfectly good block, go ahead and install them but you won't be doing yourself a favor or even any good.

.
If your putting in studs and cracking the casting your doing something wrong. I have machined hundreds of Dart blocks with studs and never seen a problem yet FIND OUT WHAT YOUR DOING WRONG AND FIX THE PROBLEM

We do alot with the 2503 Bowtie blocks and all those blocks come with studs and if GM thought there was a problem I am sure they would not be using them!!!! And so far we see all the main lines on the 2503 block sized right at 2.6415

I never said Dart had a problem with Darts hardware but when some one orders a block and wants to use studs in the mains I don't argue with them I do what they want.

On all the blocks that leave either one of our shops with a 350 main line they are dusted out to 2.6415 and when adding studs we do see from time to time the housing bores change from there origanl size and if you read the paper work that comes with the ARP fasteners they recommend line honing after installing there hardeware. After hundreds of blocks we have sold we have had zero problems with our main lines no cracking in the casting what so ever.

We machine alot of cam tunnels to the BBC size in the SHP blocks for alot of our customers Notihng wrong with Darts cam tunnels we never argue with the customers if they want a BBC cam tunnel we do it and if they want studs in the mains we add studs.

Nothing wrong with Darts lifter bores but if the customer wants .875 or .904 we do what they ask and so far no problems.

Quote:
The studs can and do bottom out in block on the register and also can cause it to crack?
Seeing your having this problem with studs I am sure some one wanting to buy an SHP block with studs will probably give me a call as we must be doing things right as we have never seen a stud crack the casting in a Dart block yet.

Here is a quote from another website on what we offer on the SHP blocks as you can see there is no 250.00 add on for line honing and if a block needs to be bored from 3.995 to 4.060 we don't charge extra as its part of the deal.

We do have some customers that want us to move their cylinders bores from the original blue print locations and we do charge extra for that process.

Quote:
We offer an SHP block that has gone through our HAAS 4-axis CNC machining center.

We line hone to 2.6415 and most guys up to an ARP stud for 55.00

Deck to your desired deck height

Bore if needed and plate hone to what your using for gaskets and hardware.

Clearance lifter bores to the GM spec

Chamfer the bottom of the cylinders

Chamfer freeze plug holes and cam plug hole

Tap all oil galley holes deeper

Cleaned ready to go for 1795.00

We can also CNC machine the lifter bores to .875 or .904 or bush back to standard if needed

We also offer cam tunnel machining as well for roller or babbit cam bearings.

Shipped any where in the U.S. for 75.00

Last edited by CNC BLOCKS; 10-10-2010 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:48 AM   #10
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O,K, fair enough. When you put it like that, that makes total sense. Old habits, this SHP block is a new deal for me, I'm used to making factory blocks live. I have no problem with buying a good pan, I just want to cover the basics. If you don't ask, you don't know, right? Thanks for all the input.
That is exactly what people think, they are repairing and old GM block. The work Carl does making the old block as good as possible is good work and has to be done to give the old blocks a chance. If that is what you have to do, then that is what you do. But to take a brand new race block and try to improve it is silly. DART made these blocks very heavy duty and nothing really needs to be done but the normal race prep. Sometimes you have to touch things up but all blocks are ready to handle way more than any stock race prepped GM 20-40 year old block could ever take. The stock GM blocks were only engineered to handle 400hp. The mains and cylinder walls are weak. The SHP block was engineered to handle well over 800 hp. so its ready to be beat.
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